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  #1321  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:55 PM
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It's interesting to see that...yes, it happens to me that whenever i see Charlotte Casiraghi, or i read her name, Monaco comes to mind inmediately. But, i think that's normal, she is very much "Princess Caroline's daughter". In all the press she gets, she always is credited as "Princess Caroline's daughter" or "Grace Kelly's granddaughter" and it will always be like that. Will be hard to get her own recognition...specially if she doesn't stand out in something.

But...thinking it again, it's quite natural that she and her brothers advertise Monaco, wherever they go. When they talk. What they talk. If they are well educated, if they seem inteligent or not. It's a way to sell Monaco. She (and brothers) might not have an oficial function in the Principality, but they do sell Monaco too, they want it or not.
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  #1322  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:30 PM
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Pics from Day 2 of the Jumping in Lyon:
Charlotte Casiraghi Pictures - Charlotte Casiraghi Competes at the International Equestrian Competition of Lyon - Zimbio
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  #1323  
Old 10-28-2011, 10:15 PM
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She looks scared.
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  #1324  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:48 AM
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She does! Maybe she fell in practice or something recently.
So far, her results:
eliminated in the first competition
25th/47 in her second competition
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  #1325  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post

Charlotte did much better today. She came in 25/46 at 1.35m, 2*, in the Accumulator competition . She rode CarryDuffZ.
Her results in the an Accumulator confirm that she is going too quickly and jumping competitions she is not prepared to ride.
Accumulators are usually good for people with security issues because you start with quite small jumps and the high and difficulty goes increasing, so if you have a safe horse, as Charlotte must have, you jump very easily over the first fences and and when you get to the couple of last difficult ones you've already done a few good jumps, it's good for your confidence.
From her results you can tell that she probably failed one or two jumps and then chose not to risk the joker. It shows that she isn't very confident.
All those people with 25 points who are after her, look like people who took the jocker and failed, or people who took much biggers risks (look at their time and compare it with Charlotte's,)so, they probably had much better courses than Charlotte even if they are behind her in the list.
Also, Charlotte time is very high, which usually indicates that she had trouble at some fence and the horse refused to jump and had to go for it again...
all in all, this result is not as good as it looks if you know how an accumulator works :-(

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She looks scared.
And she's not the only one. Look at the horse's eyes. I'm afraid that what happened with Tintero may be happening again
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  #1326  
Old 10-29-2011, 06:58 AM
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It's really bad to hear that her horse refused to jump. It means that the way she handles him/her is very wrong and that there's no communication between them. Maybe that's another main problem for her results.

~ Grr.. i can't view the pictures.. Zimbio must hate me!
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  #1327  
Old 10-29-2011, 07:41 AM
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It's really bad to hear that her horse refused to jump. It means that the way she handles him/her is very wrong and that there's no communication between them. Maybe that's another main problem for her results.

~ Grr.. i can't view the pictures.. Zimbio must hate me!
can you show me link maybe i view ??
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  #1328  
Old 10-29-2011, 09:32 AM
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It's the post #1323. Sugarbaby318 posted the link
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  #1329  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:18 AM
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^Hopefully this link will work for you azure. I uploaded the zimbio pics to imageupper:
http://imageupper.com/g/?S030001005B1319901613734690
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  #1330  
Old 10-29-2011, 11:41 AM
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Charlotte did seem nervous in the pictures, but I like the fact that she is riding more now. The best thing to improve her riding and timing is to put in alot of hours of continuous riding.

On a happier note, Athina is doing very well. She finished 11th on Friday at 5*, 1.50-1.60m and 9th and 14th today in the accumulator. Both days she has won money. She is slow but accurate.
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  #1331  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:28 PM
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just noticed something here. According to that, Charlotte now owns Carry Duff Z.

Rider: Charlotte Casiraghi
Owner: Casiraghi Charlotte

hummm....
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  #1332  
Old 10-29-2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco
Charlotte did seem nervous in the pictures, but I like the fact that she is riding more now. The best thing to improve her riding and timing is to put in alot of hours of continuous riding.

On a happier note, Athina is doing very well. She finished 11th on Friday at 5*, 1.50-1.60m and 9th and 14th today in the accumulator. Both days she has won money. She is slow but accurate.
In practice, not in competition. Continuing to compete above her level is bad for her and it's bad for her horses. I agree with what was said earlier- she needs a new coach who will force her back to basics and be realistic with her about her skill level and how to improve it.

Good for Athina though!
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  #1333  
Old 10-29-2011, 02:22 PM
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I no longer ride and was never any good, but I do see some signals here that I wish the experienced riders would comment on. The first thing I noticed especially is in the 3rd picture. It seems to me that both the horses eyes and mouth are NOT looking happy. Is it my imagination/lack of knowledge that it seems to me she is a bit heavy on the horse's mouth???
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  #1334  
Old 10-29-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham
I no longer ride and was never any good, but I do see some signals here that I wish the experienced riders would comment on. The first thing I noticed especially is in the 3rd picture. It seems to me that both the horses eyes and mouth are NOT looking happy. Is it my imagination/lack of knowledge that it seems to me she is a bit heavy on the horse's mouth???
I ride mainly for pleasure and I'm not an expert either- I've been riding a long time and I have horses but I don't show at all any more. I had the same impression as you- she's heavy on the horse's mouth and her posture also seemed very off to me in some pictures- she's leaning forward and her horse looks off balance.

Can we get a trepstep ruling on this? :)
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  #1335  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I ride mainly for pleasure and I'm not an expert either- I've been riding a long time and I have horses but I don't show at all any more. I had the same impression as you- she's heavy on the horse's mouth and her posture also seemed very off to me in some pictures- she's leaning forward and her horse looks off balance.

Can we get a trepstep ruling on this? :)
Glups! I'm not a pro or anything like that! It's not my place to rule! At all!

But I agree with you. The horse does not have happy eyes. He looks scared. And it's not the 1st time I've noticed she may have a hard hand. She also seems to have a tendency to put herself forward, and to go ahead than the horse when jumping (I don't know how you say that in english, sorry...)
I've noticed thought that she's started FINALLY! to hold her reins like a normal person. Some months ago she still used to hold them in a grip with all her fingers together, but she's surprised me here with her little finger outside the reins! did anyone else notice that?
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  #1336  
Old 10-29-2011, 03:37 PM
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I didn't notice the horse, but you are right, he looks scared/not comfortable.
Charlotte may be to work on her confindence with her and the horse.
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  #1337  
Old 10-29-2011, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
Glups! I'm not a pro or anything like that! It's not my place to rule! At all!

But I agree with you. The horse does not have happy eyes. He looks scared. And it's not the 1st time I've noticed she may have a hard hand. She also seems to have a tendency to put herself forward, and to go ahead than the horse when jumping (I don't know how you say that in english, sorry...)
I've noticed thought that she's started FINALLY! to hold her reins like a normal person. Some months ago she still used to hold them in a grip with all her fingers together, but she's surprised me here with her little finger outside the reins! did anyone else notice that?
I can't believe she was ever in competition holding her reins like that! I hadn't been checking this forum. Good on her for fixing that and holding them correctly, but how on earth did her coach EVER put her in high level competition if she couldn't master something that basic?

I feel like a lot of people here think that when Charlotte's equestrian career is criticized, it's a criticism of her personally. It's not at all- I actually rather like Charlotte- and I hate seeing her putting herself in danger and doing damage to talented horses. And make no mistake, that's what she's doing.

There's a reason you can't skip steps in horseback riding and why you have to do a ton of repetitive drills on basic things before you begin to think about showjumping. You need to develop your seat and your balance and you need to use your hands correctly, and the only way to do that is tons of practice on the flat. Right now, Charlotte's not capable of helping her horses through the course. Based on these pictures, her balance isn't what it should be and she doesn't have a good feel for the horse's mouth. The result is a scared rider and a scared/annoyed horse who isn't sure what it's supposed to do.

She treats riding like it's a glamorous thing to do (she's made statements to that effect and her partnership with Gucci has emphasized that quite a bit) but the thing is: it's not. It's glamorous in the show ring, but if you're a real rider, that's about 1% of the time you spend doing this. Riding is a lot of canter circles and working on transitions and timing and conditioning rides and lunging and training and hitting the dirt and getting grass drool all over yourself when you lead your horse in and being sweaty and covered in horse hair. And it also means spending time bonding with your horse by helping with its care- you need to be a partnership and you need to trust each other. It's a sport that requires real passion for the animals and everything related to them, and I just don't see that from her. That's not a personal failing on her part, but it's an indication that she really needs to make a decision and either focus on the other parts of her career or truly commit herself to her riding and go back to drilling on basics for awhile before she shows again. (And when she does show again, it should be at a more appropriate level)

Oh, and trepstep, you're right about her being ahead of the horse on jumps a lot of the time- which I think is really contributing to her poor results.

Oh, and I'm sorry to keep bombing the thread with replies, but I thought that some of the people who like to visit this thread but don't know much about riding might enjoy this wikipedia article on the jumping position- Jumping position - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It explains some of the problems that can be caused by bad position, which we've been talking about with Charlotte.
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  #1338  
Old 10-30-2011, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sugarbaby318 View Post
^Hopefully this link will work for you azure. I uploaded the zimbio pics to imageupper:
Image Upper.com - View Gallery Photos
Thank you sooo much, Sugarbaby318
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  #1339  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:37 PM
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Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same.
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  #1340  
Old 10-30-2011, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Thank you HRH for the excellent article on riding postition. I have noticed that the Roziers and Roger Yves Bost both ride like Charlotte ( all in the Fontainebleau area). It does indeed appear that all of their mechanics are bad but they have been able to overcome it by number of hours ridden. I wish she would come to the US and start from scratch. We are very big on mechanics in all sports. I am sure the Germans are probably the same.
No problem! That actually made me a bit curious about the Roziers, because bad position is something that just can't be overcome- there's no way they'd ride at the level they do if they rode that way. It's always going to throw off the horse's balance and it's always going to produce bad results over higher fences. The horse can compensate over lower ones, but as they get higher, it's not possible.

The Roziers actually both have pretty perfect positions- watch their hip angles particularly. When they jump, they kind of fold their body down and the angle between their hip and and body closes- Charlotte's opens. That's what puts her ahead of the horse over the jump. That also throws her balance off, and she compensates for the lack of balance by hauling on the bit, which is a major problem. In my humble and not at all expert opinion, that's why she has so many refusals- her horses have gotten used to their mouths being handled badly on landing, and now they don't want to jump.

It means that either her coach is a poor teacher, or more likely, wants to keep Charlotte happy and doesn't offer her enough constructive criticism. She needs someone who will drill her on basics, which aren't particularly glamorous or fun to practice. She really needs to stop following the GCT until she does that- at this point, it can't be fun for her and it's certainly not fun for her horses.

Her approach to show jumping reminds me of a character in a series of American children's books- Veronica diAngelo, from The Saddle Club.
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