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  #1301  
Old 10-24-2011, 03:08 PM
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No good results indeed. Better luck next time.
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  #1302  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:38 PM
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Charlotte Casiraghi looks nervous as she practices horse jumping before participating in the 2011 Equita International Equestrian Competition of Lyon.
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  #1303  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:59 AM
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She should. She was eliminated once again.
Results - Prix CRERA

You all know I've been awfully critic with theway she's managing her jumping career, and at first I was always like "you see, hahahaha, I was right, haahhaa, she is a bad rider and she shouldn't be taking part here", but now it is so obvious that it makes me kind of sad because the truth is that I like the fact that she is a rider and I love her jumping pictures, and I would love to see her competing for many years...
but I'm afraid that if she keeps on making a fool or herself publicly she will simply quit riding the same way she quited her studies She doesn't seem to be the most determined girl out there when things don't go the easy way.

I wish she would search another trainer. Someone serious about his job who doesn't care so much about the glittering aspect of been Charlotte's trainer and has the guts to sit her down and erase all the fairytales on her head, and tells her to stop all this CSI nonsense around the world and the silly publicity and stay training in one place in a serious way until she is good enough. Someone who has the guts to tell her: "your name and your fame and your pretty face don't make you magically better than others, if you want to be a good rider you have to be patient and learn from the bottom for many years and even then, if you don't have the talent maybe you'll never get there, are you ready to do it the hard way?"
In short, someone who teaches her humility.
Otherwise, I think she's going to quit as soon as her Gucci contract expires because it's starting to look shameful.
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  #1304  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:03 AM
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It's logical to be nervous. She needs a lot of work. I hope she gets better points in the next race!

Trepstrep, you think that Thierry isn't a good coach? I no nothing about this man and his career (in my mind i always thought he's a good rider, but this doesn't automatially make him a good teacher). Anyway, i thought that he was a good coach for her in her teens. I had this impression . But reading some lines of him talking about Char going to Olympics i thought that he's in a hurry and wants to prove he's good. I mean that if his "student" goes to this important event, it means that he's a great coach. On the other hand, what i really understood, is that he maybe cannot understand Char's real needs and weaknesses. Οr maybe she isn't a good student. Who knows..
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  #1305  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:33 AM
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I don't know how good a teacher he is, since I've never been to any of his classes, of course, but his planning of Charlotte's career with all that travelling around, is obviously disastrous.

There is something really weird about his relationship with Charlotte and that's the simple fact that he trained her when she was a teenager.
Think about it: Charlotte decides to go riding at the Rozier's stables. That's normal. She's just a child, she's starting to jump, doing small competition, 1 m, 1'05, 1'10. I'm sure the Roziers had many pupils of that level. Usuallly, in a big barn like that, the big names, like Thierry Rozier teach only advanced pupils. The children are left in the care of younger teachers, good riders and good teachers, ok, but no the top ones. An international rider doesn't teach beginners! What was he doing training Charlotte by then?

And yet, whe had Thierry Rozier always stuck to Charlotte, and Valentine, and Caroline. And since Charlotte and Valentine took part in small events around Paris, he stayed with them, he was always at Fontainebleau or Bois le Roi with them (didn't he have any international shows to attend?)


Then when Charlotte comes back to riding and decides to do the international big thing, Thierry is again with her. Wasn't him in charge of the children and the competitions near Fontainebleau? Where are his other pupils? No. He makes Charlotte buy a lot of expensive horses (I'm sure he was the one who conselled her) and he advises her to ride the GCT (he said so in an interview) and there he is again, always with Charlotte and Caroline, with the Guccci people, in the magazines, giving interviews... and again, where are his other pupils? He seems to have only Charlotte!

I really don't know him and I don't know how good a teacher he is. But he strikes me as someone who wants to be close to Charlotte and parade her around because of all the free publicity he gets from her, and also the kind of teacher who will never tell his wealthy pupils the things they don't want to hear just to keep them with him. The kind of person who will never tell Charlotte: you are not ready for the GCT and don't even dream about the Olympics.
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  #1306  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:14 AM
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I agree with what you said. At the beginning of her horse career -when in her teens- he seemed to be a very good teacher for her. Well, to be honest i had high expectations for her because of her results. When she stopped and then again she appeared to be in all this horse jumping thing ( around 2009 i guess?) he was her coach again. That seems logical because he was the one who trained her and helped her in the past, but reading your post - from the very 1st paragraph, the idea of popularity and fame that he propaly wants to get from Charlotte crossed my mind, too!
I have no idea if that's true, but Charlotte seems to have stuck to him. Like she's trapped. She has no good results, she then changed some of her horses for some improvement, but i think that now things are worse than ever for her, according to all these eliminations i read. She should reconsider and change her coach i think. I'm sure there're many people who are willing to take over her.
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  #1307  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:42 AM
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The thing with Charlotte is that she seems to be extremely insecure out of her familiar bubble of protection. She never gets out of it. Even her friends are the kids of her mother's friends. Her trainer is someone she met when she was a child... and she hangs to him even when it's obvious from her results that he's no good for her.

Since Alex lives in London, she should maybe try to get a trainer in the UK. It would mean less travelling between france and the uk, and she could focus on her training and distance herself from the rozier's circle. She would be less pampered but she would probably grow as a rider.
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  #1308  
Old 10-27-2011, 11:49 AM
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I'm more concerned about the damage she does to her horses. An inexperienced or bad rider can damage a horses confidence.
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  #1309  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:22 PM
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Charlotte's problem isn't Thierry. She said in her first interview, the French one, that she was riding with the GCT to help promote this circuit. Let's face it. She's a media magnet. She or PC might even be silent investors. It's working because the GCT is expanding to 14 sites next year and they are attracting better sponsors. She can't move to London because PA wants her in France. That's where most of Monaco's customers come from. She needs to live in or near Paris if she isn't going to live in Monaco. It's business. Thierry isn't her only coach. She is also getting help from Jan Tops and Edwina Alexander. Jan Tops said in an interview that he helped her pick out her horses. He said he picked good but not great horses that could help her and that would be forgiving of her mistakes. He also gives advise to her at the competitions. She has mostly ridden at the 1* level. Last winter season and this winter season she has been testing the 2* level. That is when she has had the most eliminations. She also doesn't do well on wet grass. I agree she has spread herself too thin. But that's her life and the alternative for her is probably not to ride at all.

Charlotte did much better today. She came in 25/46 at 1.35m, 2*, in the Accumulator competition . She rode CarryDuffZ.
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  #1310  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Charlotte's problem isn't Thierry. She said in her first interview, the French one, that she was riding with the GCT to help promote this circuit.
Not exactly, if you mean the France 2 interview she made with Pr Albert, she said that if she can help promote the equestrian sport by riding with GCT, it would be a good thing.
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  #1311  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:43 PM
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FanofMonaco, Charlotte is a private person. She doesn't live PA's life and she isn't at his orders. You can't justifiy all her decissions by saying that she is promoting Monaco.
Albert, Caroline and Stephanie suffered all 3 from too much control when they were children and I'm sure that Caroline wants her kids to be independent and free.
She took care to brought her children up that way and I'm sure she will be the first one who will never allow Albert to control their lives.

Charlotte is a private person with a private life. She rides horses because she loves it. And she rides the GCT because she likes to be at such a glittering event.

Also, there is no difference at all between riding a 1'30 CSI* and a 1'30 CSI**. The courses and the dificulties are the same, the only difference is that in a CSI* there usually is a 1'20 course and at a CSI** competition they aren't any 1'20 courses, but there is no difference for a rider who is doing 1'30 . Exact same difficulty.

Jan Tops is the organizer of the GCT and I'm sure he'svery happy to get the money Gucci has brought to his private business through Charlotte. I would love to know how much he's made her pay for her horses! He's probably making good business with that aswell.
You'll be surprised to know how many horse profesionals trick their rich clients day affter day. Some people here are into horse riding, too, and they'll be able to confirm what a dishonest bussines it usually is.

The fact is Charlotte's getting worse and worse results.
Maybe she loves too much the spotligh and the glamour part of horse riding, and she doesn't realize that she is surrounded by leaches. But she really should get out of that explotative circle and go working with someone serious.
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  #1312  
Old 10-27-2011, 01:20 PM
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Thanks for the info regarding the difference between 1 star and 2 star competitions. I am learning so much from this thread. You also have to consider that Charlotte has gone from 1 horse to 7 horses in 3 years. That's a big adjustment but I think it will make her a better rider long term. I am sure there are many unscrupulous people in the horse business, but that is true in all businesses. I would think it would be hard to keep your credability though if you cheated people too often. Word gets around. The Grimaldis are good business people so I am sure they checked these people out. They seem to be very loyal to people that they trust but if you break that trust you are gone. Thierry, himself, said that Charlotte gets lots of offers from others to train her and that he and Jan appreciated her loyalty. In return, they tried to do their best for her.

I think you are wrong about the pull PA has on Charlotte. She is part of the royal family and has been raised to put herself last. I remember PC saying something like "duty, responsiblity, guilt" more than 1 time. Charlene doesn't have the glamour that Charlotte has and PC is getting older. Monaco's whole marketing scheme is based on glamour.Like it or not, Charlotte is the Mickey Mouse of Monaco.
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  #1313  
Old 10-27-2011, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
I think you are wrong about the pull PA has on Charlotte. She is part of the royal family and has been raised to put herself last. I remember PC saying something like "duty, responsiblity, guilt" more than 1 time. Charlene doesn't have the glamour that Charlotte has and PC is getting older. Monaco's whole marketing scheme is based on glamour.Like it or not, Charlotte is the Mickey Mouse of Monaco.
JOM but I can't think of anyone who would go to the principality because of Mlle Casiraghi. Other than National Day or the Rose Ball I cannot think of any major event that she takes part in on a regular or semi regular basis, and on National Day she is a background player and likely to become more so if Prince Albert and Princess Charlene have children. She and her siblings will have the same place as the De Massys do now.

If Charlotte wants a career as a successful international rider she would do well to concentrate on that now and put in the training and work required to achieve that success even if that requires a move to the UK or the US. In fact that might be desirable so she could live and train in anonimity.
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  #1314  
Old 10-28-2011, 01:28 AM
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Charlotte the Mickey Mouse of Monaco? To be called "Mickey Mouse" is to say one is unimportant, trivial, intellectually unchallenging; simple.
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  #1315  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:54 AM
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I don't agree with the statement that she's the Mickey Mouse of Monaco. But if you explained us more of your thoughts about this reference, FanofMonaco, maybe we would have a different opinion. =) Now, i personally perceive this 'name' very differently.
I also believe that she tends to stay to her family bubble, as Trepstrep said. I don't know why she does that and why she maybe feels insecure. I guess that a main 'problem' is her coach. I always see them together in pictures, when Thierry gives her instructions and advice, but i don't know what a result they have given to Char. Maybe she doesn't want to make big changes in her life and changing a coach can be something negative for her. I didn't know that Jan Tops and Edwina Alexander give her some help. But still, i am not convinced that this is enough.
I think that Charlotte stays in that hobby - i interpret her horse riding as a hobby for her, not as a career- because of the glamour that Gucci offers to her. We don't know how much money Gucci gives her in order to advertise their clothes and brands! Also, i guess it is flattering or her to be the model of such a famous label! (To be honest, who wouldn't be flattered?) I don't say that this is the only reason she takes part in horse events. I bet she likes horse riding but all i get is that she does it into press, especially when she takes part in horse jumping races. It's even written on her face. When you love something a lot, you're not scared and afraid to do it! You seem confident and strong. Maybe Thierry didn't manage to make her love the sport in order to make her put a lot of effort for some better results. Love it is the first thing and the others come second.
NGalitzine, i am really concerned about the horses, too, as a great animal lover. These are the ones who get the most pain and they're wasted at the end.
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  #1316  
Old 10-28-2011, 10:09 AM
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. When you love something a lot, you're not scared and afraid to do it! You seem confident and strong. Maybe Thierry didn't manage to make her love the sport in order to make her put a lot of effort for some better results. Love it is the first thing and the others come second.
Oh, but you can love horse riding and be scared at the same time! I've known many riders who love horses more than anything and still suffer when they enter a competition, and many people who get scared even during training.
I went myself through a period like that when I was younger and it was awful because you are scared while doing the thing you love most! And you don't really enjoy yourself because you're too nervous, but you don't want to quit because you love it so much!.
I perfectly understand how Charlotte may love horsejumping and be afraid of it at the same time.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:26 AM
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From my perspective as an outsider looking in on Charlotte I'm very confused about this path that she has chosen for herself. I've read interviews with her and she comes across as very well read and studious and somebody who thinks deeply about things. I read in one that she said she needs to make her own life separate from her mother, but in reality she hasn't at all.

The thing that confuses me about Charlotte is that she says that she wants to be left alone by the paparazzi and just get on with her normal life, but she attends the big events in Monaco, she poses on red carpets, she does big magazine spreads and she promotes big events. That isn't going to mean she is left alone and taken as a serious rider.

Take Zara Phillips as an example. I know that she is a much better rider than Charlotte but she doesn't have any official role in promoting the UK and it's very rare for her to pose for magazine photos and she only attends big celebration events for her grandmother. That means that people have the perception of her that she spends a seriously long time training with her horses and competing. On the other hand I don't think anybody thinks that about Charlotte. We are always seeing photos of her at events or with Alex or on holiday somewhere. I think she says that she wants to escape from her families reputation but she is the one must hung up on it. IMO I don't think she wants to be a rider as much as she wants to have a nice relaxed holidaying life like her mother has. The only problem is that Caroline had a job being a princess and Charlotte really needs to become a better rider so that people stop seeing her as just a well connected rich kid who wants an easy life.
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:11 AM
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Take Zara Phillips as an example. I know that she is a much better rider than Charlotte but she doesn't have any official role in promoting the UK and it's very rare for her to pose for magazine photos and she only attends big celebration events for her grandmother.
I agree that Charlotte and Zara are very different riders, and people in general, but Zara does pose for magazines. She is in Hello! all the time posing for photos and giving interviews. I think they both try to promote the sport. Charlotte does attend more high profile red carpet events than Zara, but Zara attends her fair share too. Zara seems a bit more serious about her training, but both she and Charlotte seem to do things to try and promote their sport. Just my two cents
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:21 AM
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I don't mean the definition of Mickey Mouse in the negative sence. Mickey Mouse is one of the best know trademarks in the world. Coca-Cola is the same. Monaco would be much less well-known without the Grimaldi family, Charlotte included. Charlotte doesn't have to be in Monaco to sell Monaco. You automatically associate her name with Monaco. When she is on the cover of a magazine, it is free advertising for Monaco just by association. When she goes to events, she is talking to potential customers.Soft sell.

I don't think Charlotte is frightened, but I do think she gets very nervous in competitions. This may be the reason for some of her eliminations. She freezes up. I am the same way. It is very obvious that she is a shy person. When she gets her picture taken at non- horse events many times her hands are clinched. She is uncomfortable. At Valencia this year there is a video of her rocking back and forth in her saddle right before her start . Again a sign of nervousnous. It is obvious that she does love riding, though, because most of her genuinely smiling pictures have been when she is around horses.

Charlotte didn't compete in the 1.40m today. I think she is done for the week-end. Next week she is signed up for Bois le Roi. Three weeks in a row.

Phillipe Rozier won the 5*, 1.50m today. I have noticed he does well in the 1.45 and 1.50 classes. I guess he doesn't have the horse to do better in the higher heights. He is competing against the same people. Roger Yves Bost, the other Fountainebleau rider has teamed up with Lady Forbes (she dumped Jessica Kurten for tampering with her horses) and he is doing even better. It's not like Charlotte is lacking for mentors. I also just read that Virginie Couperie Eiffel was a French national champion. I don't know which equestrian sport.
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Old 10-28-2011, 01:31 PM
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Oh, but you can love horse riding and be scared at the same time! I've known many riders who love horses more than anything and still suffer when they enter a competition, and many people who get scared even during training.
I went myself through a period like that when I was younger and it was awful because you are scared while doing the thing you love most! And you don't really enjoy yourself because you're too nervous, but you don't want to quit because you love it so much!.
I perfectly understand how Charlotte may love horsejumping and be afraid of it at the same time.

Seemingly, you didn't understand what i wrote. It's propably my mistake for not written it in a clear way. I agree with what you said. I'll bring an example for this. I love history. But when i write a history test i'll be very anxious and afraid because of the mark and because i want to do very well! That's logical. But i'm telling that she is afraid of the sport in a way that she hasn't manage to assert herself to it. I cannot explain it more. There are some things that you can think and understand but you have difficulties to transfer them to the others. Forgive me

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
I don't mean the definition of Mickey Mouse in the negative sence. Mickey Mouse is one of the best know trademarks in the world. Coca-Cola is the same. Monaco would be much less well-known without the Grimaldi family, Charlotte included. Charlotte doesn't have to be in Monaco to sell Monaco. You automatically associate her name with Monaco. When she is on the cover of a magazine, it is free advertising for Monaco just by association. When she goes to events, she is talking to potential customers.Soft sell.
Now i completely understood what you wanted to say, FanofMonaco, and i agree. When i think of Mickey Mouse associatively Walt Disney comes to my mind..! The same happens for Charlotte and Moanco.
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