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  #1261  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:31 AM
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There is a new article on Pomeline's skyblog which is interesting. It's a quote from a article from "Le Matin suisse", about Charlotte as a rider, a reflexion about her next contribution to the Olympic Games. Nothing new for us in this article, but the conclusion is different from all that we could have read before: it's the first time a newspaper evoques Charlotte's real level in horse riding. It says that Charlotte would want to take part to the O.G. in London [but I don't think she already said that, she said that it was a project, but never that she wanted to go to London!] and then: "La nouvelle fera sans doute sourire ceux qui l'ont vue à l'oeuvre lors du dernier concours hippique de Genève. Une certitude : le cheval, lui, devra être exceptionnel." This means: "This new will certainly make smile those who saw her riding during last jumping in Geneve. It's a certainty: the horse, him (?), will have to be exceptional."
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  #1262  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:18 PM
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Her coach said they were aiming for Rio and she has never said when, but that it is a dream of hers, like all athletes.
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  #1263  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:12 AM
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In Charlotte's Paris Vogue article she mentions Tintero's temperament...his "episodes" is the exact word she uses...as perhaps an explanation for her less than impressive showings lately.

What does everyone else think of Tintero's personality?
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  #1264  
Old 08-24-2011, 12:27 PM
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Last year Tintero was the perfect gentleman and she did very well on him. It was the opposite with Troy. She had alot of trouble with him. This year it has reversed. She hasn't ridden Tintero much this year, but when she has she hasn't done well. She got a mare and I was wondering what effect that would have on the two lead horses. Maybe Troy won Madison's heart and Tintero is pouting. This year she has kind of been going sideways but has won 2 3rd places with Troy. Charlotte now has a full stable and will have had a full year with all 7 horses. Maybe that will make it easier next year.
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  #1265  
Old 08-24-2011, 03:00 PM
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FanOfMonaco...thanks!

You are always the go-to person when it comes to info on Monaco and the Grimaldis!
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  #1266  
Old 08-24-2011, 04:13 PM
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Thanks Moonmaiden. A more experienced rider might have better luck bringing Tintero out of his malaise, but Charlotte isn't there yet. To be fair, TrepStep thinks that Charlotte has ruined Tintero, but I don't understand how. They were working really well together last year. I am not a rider. Maybe the riders would like to comment on this.
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:55 PM
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Well I am not a rider either, but I do enjoy watching the sport and I would be very interested to hear TrepStep's and anyone else's opinions on Tintero, and how he has been affected(adversely or otherwise) by his time with Charlotte.

He is a magnificent horse for sure.
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  #1268  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:18 PM
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I'll try! But of course this is ONLY my opinion
Horses, like persons come with different temperaments and personalities.
I may be wrong since I don't know him, but Tintero strikes me as a classy and sensitive horse and that kind of horse is the easiest to ruin, specially by amateur riders (sometimes also by the pros).
Why? Because amateur riders make mistakes, and those mistakes make the horse make bigger efforts than he should, or are painful for his mouth or back, or scare him.

If you go very slowly in your progression, you'll have better chances not to ruin your horse, because you will be strongly confirmed in a certain level before you take the next step, and thus you'll make less mistakes when the jumps are higher and the courses more complicated.
If you ride a less complicated kind of horse, maybe less classy, but with a stronger head and moral, and big muscular strengh, less sensitivity, you'll also have better chances not to ruin him: those horses usually are more forgiving and forgetful with their rider's mistakes.
IMHO Charlotte has forsaken those 2 conditions. She's been riding a senstive horse and she's tried to progress too quickly.

Last year she had rather good results with Tintero. Why? Because Tintero was jumping courses way bellow his capacities. He used to be a 1'50 horse. 1'15 and 1'25, even 1'30 were nothing to him, and that's why he was such a big help to Charlotte.
The problem was that Charlotte got those good results because the horse was making most of the work. I didn't see all of her jumps but I remenber several bad courses that she nevertheless finished at 0 faults.
She took too many jumps from too far away, which makes the horse make a big effort and usually hurts his mouth since the riders hangs too much to the reins.
She took too many jumps from too close, which makes the horse make a big effort and may hurt his back and his back.
Also, let's not forget: at the end of the day horses are shy fearful creatures. Given the option, in the nature, they would never jump a 1'30 fence, they would much rather go around it! They jump because they are trained to do it and because they trust their rider and trust that nothing bad will happen to them.


BUT when a horse has had too many frights and bad experiences the trust began to desappear. He is not sure anymore that he won't be hurt, and he is not willing to obbey someone he doesn't trust. And thus, horses start to refuse the jumps. If they feel the rider has doubts, if they think the jump is too far away or too near, they just won't jump.
And so, the same way their first months Tintero made Charlotte better than she was because he mended her mistakes, now he makes her worst than she is because he doesn't allow even small mistakes than other horses wouldn't take into account.


The 1st symtom that something like that was happening was that at some point last year, Charlotte's results with Tintero began to get worse, but there usually was an improvement when she had been on holidays or travelling and she went back to competition. That probably meant that in the meanwhile someone else had been working with Tintero and restoring his confidence.
Many "ruined" horses are never recovered. They may improve somewhat from their mental insecurities but they will never be the same. Others, can be fully recovered when rode by the right person. Rozier and Charlotte probably think Tintero is that second kind of horse and that's why they are still working with him.


When I think about why is Charlotte has acted like that I only find 2 possible answers (maybe there's a 3rd one I just can't put my finger on).


1. She doesn't fully realize what's happened.
I think it makes sense because the same way that last year she was totally full of praise when talking about Tintero, in the vogue interview she seems a bit disenchanted with the horse, and most surprising she puts all the blame on him, as if she had no fault at all!
It does not seem so crazy because I've bee having the feeling for a while that Charlotte is surrounded by too many shameless flatterers whomust be repeating her all day how wonderful she is, how she is the most talented equestrian, the most intelligent student, the most beautiful woman... It's no surprise if she kind of looses touch with reality. If they counseled her to buy an unnecesserely expensive horse (I wonder how much money they won in the transaction!) they will never admit in front of her that she isn't a good enough rider for Tintero and more important, that they gave her a bad counsel.


2. She doesn't care if the horse is ruined.
Why? Well, they are 2 main reason why you usually worry about ruining your hourse. First and mainly because most amateur riders own only one horse and they develop very deep relationships with them, they love their horses and don't want to hurt them. But also, because if you ruin a horse and you need to replace him to keep competing that costs money, and most people can't afford it. Charlotte can afford to ruin one, two, three or four horses in her learning process. She doesn't need to wait until she feels sure in a given level to go step higher. And with any new horse she will have less trouble than with the last one because she will have improved a bit (we hope).
Now, she doesn't strike me as a person who will behave like that. She seems sensitive and caring. But also a little bit out of touch with reality, she may think that if the horse doesn't follow her he is not good enough for her. And I really don't know anything about the Roziers philosophy and training methods. They aren't among my favourite riders but I don't know how caring or patient they are.


Who knows? Only time will tell, maybe I am completely mistaken.

The only thing that strikes me as totally weird is that Charlotte and Charlotte's friends insist all the time in how she is such a perfectionist. Someone (sorry I don't remember who) wrote in the current events thread some days ago, how she found it weird: a perfectionist doesn't abandon her studies midway.
I don't know, maybe she does if she can't stand the stress, but the really weird thing is that a perfectionist certainly doesn't burn stages and skips steps. If you are a perfectionist you don't want to go to a higher level until you have perfected the lower one. You don't want to go too quick with your learning process because you hate making mistakes and doing things any way.
And yet, Charlotte doesn't seem to have a perfectionist attitude at all in her jumping career. She jumps 1'25 courses when she still makes evident mistakes at 1'15, and she goes to 1'30, even 1'35 when she still has often trouble at 1'25.
I am not saying it is something that weird per se, but it's not something a perfectionist would do.


And, WOW; this is the longest post ever!
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  #1269  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:43 AM
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^ Thanks for this very interesting post Trepstep! I totally agree with all you wrote.
I have always heard that an experienced horse was the better horse for an inexperienced rider, because this latter would learn (and improve) a lot with this kind of horse. But it doesn't seem to be the case, here. I think that Tintero is a very sensitive horse, who is disturbed by Charlotte's confused orders. This can be seen when Tintero refuses to jump: this kind of horse, normally, doesn't refuse to jump, he jumps and wins. Rider and horse totally disagree here, and I can't explain myself why there is no evolution, if Charlotte really rides him every day, as it is said.
I don't know Tintero, but if I had one word to say about him it would be: sensitive. He doesn't understand Charlotte, and by saying that he is bad tempered, she doesn't seem to want to understand him.
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  #1270  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:26 AM
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Thank you for taking the time to write this remarkable post, trepstep. Your posts on Charlotte's equestrian career are always informative, clear, and fascinating. Don't worry about length, we certainly don't get bored!
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  #1271  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:39 AM
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trepstep and lovelykate...your knowledge of horses is enviable...just amazing.

I always knew that horses were sensitive and high strung but I had no idea that one bad experience with one rider could affect them that way.

Charlotte's attitude toward riding seems to be "me" centered and not "horse centered"...if I am not making any sense I apologize.

It just sometimes feels like she is driven by her own need to be NUMBER ONE in her mind...to achieve...and ICAM that she has the means to continue wearing down these expensive and talented animals until she gets what she wants.

That makes me sad.

I hope Tintero will be okay...he is very beautiful...it would break my heart if he was broken in such a way that he would be "ruined" for further competition.

Thanks again.
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  #1272  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:45 AM
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Trepstep, thanks so much for your input. I do have an additional question/comment regarding Charlotte. I always remember the wonderful Christopher Reeves and the horrific riding accident he had and the awful aftermath. I owned a horse many years ago (at too late an age ) and the experience was not a happy one. My concern is that Charlotte in her desire to move up too quickly will end up having a terrible accident and pay the price. Horses are very large strong animals, not bicycles and making a mistake with them can be a life changing event. That's my concern, and I am wondering if anyone is taking this into account. Certainly one cannot be fearful and ride but at the same time it does call for a certain prudence in making choices regarding the correct horse AND the correct events for a developing equestrian.
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  #1273  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:04 PM
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Hello! First post, but regular reader.

Regarding Charlotte as a perfectionist, I think she thinks she's a perfectionist because she's determined. It seems to me she's very insecure. Like we are, I'm sure she's aware that she's always been viewed, since childhood, as being particularly intelligent, a particularly good rider, particularly beautiful, etc. I'm sure her family has helped this. Who wouldn't feel pressure to be better than good at everything?

So, as others have mentioned, she tries to start at the top. With her studies, her career, as a rider. As far as I have heard the classes prepatoires are very competitive and lots of people can't hack it, so she must be a smart girl to get in and through it. But the first time she's rejected (grande ecole) she runs away with her tail between her legs and retreats to something she thinks she's got in the bag. I guess that was riding. She couldn't start back at an appropriate level for her, according to those knowledgeable of the sport, and now the pretty picture starts to crack for her, she seems a bit indignant.

Bottom line, she seems to think being smart and talented isn't good enough, she has to be prodigious. At everything. When she's not, she feels like a failure and gives up. I wonder if she will be riding for long? I wish her well, and hopes she sorts it out if this is the case. Whew, long post!
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  #1274  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:48 PM
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Thanks TrepStep; that was an excellent reply.

I think Charlotte tries to be the best because that is the environment she comes from. The Kellys, Grimaldis and Casiraghis are all overachievers. Secondly, I think she is looking at her 20s as her selfish years to do what she wants. She basically said once she gets married she won't continue her career. That's why she is in a rush. She's got maybe 5-10 years to get to the Olympics. She never wanted to teach so it's not necessary to get her masters degree. It sounds like she did get her llicense (bachelors degree) from the Sorbonne, just like her mother.The main problem I see is that she is attempting to do too much. She needs to decide whether she wants to be an editor or a rider. I think it is too difficult to do both well.
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  #1275  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:45 PM
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^ It is even more difficult to do both (or even one) because Charlotte doesn't seem to do it seriously. It's a pity because with her money, with all of her free time, she could train a lot and improve very fast, if she really wanted to. Maybe she wants to profit from her youth, and she's right: if I had her money, I wouldn't go to work each day of the week!! I'll live the same kind of life: parties, horse riding, good time with my family, my friends. I don't think that Charlotte intends to decide one day what she's going to be: she just enjoys her life, and the problem comes from the fact that she wants to be considered as an exceptional one (beautiful, clever, talentuous). Maybe is it enough for her to be Charlotte Casiraghi, she can do all that she wants, when she wants: why working, or training hard? A normal girl with a better horse riding level couldn't take part to GCT, whereas Charlotte can. She doens't know what hard work is (training harder and harder to compete more and more, and one day taking part to GCT, for exemple).
To conclude (I know that I'm a bit repetitive and I apologize for this!) Charlotte doesn't even have her license from Sorbonne because, as Charlotte-herself said it, she gave up studies after failing ENS.
Sorry for this post a bit off topic, and welcome to ksc1215!
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  #1276  
Old 08-25-2011, 05:10 PM
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I think she is a harder worker than you think. You don't get a tres bien on your bac by being lazy. Wealthy people aren't employees. They are employers. That is what Charlotte is doing. She has her riding career which she spends several hours a day training per her coach. She is also part owner of 2 magazines: 50% with Jan Tops on the GCT magazine and partial owner with others on the Biennial magazine. She also is basically the Chairman of the Board of GCT Monte Carlo.She may not make much on her earnings riding but I would be willing to bet she is getting paid like a supermodel by Gucci. PG always demanded the top modeling rate and I am guessing that Charlotte does the same.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:43 AM
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^ She really does officially a lot of things, maybe she works very hard, or maybe she just only signs with her name her 2 magazines. I just guess that it is how she can manage to praticize all of these activities, while partying and travelling, and (officially) spending several hours riding her horses.
I never said she was lazy, I don't even think that's the case. I just think that's a bit too much, she can't really do all that she does, she's just a human being with 24 hours a day, like anybody! Or maybe she wants to do too many things, which leads her to not be at her best in each of her fields of activity (horse riding, for exemple). She diversifies too much.
And as her bac is concerned, she got her très bien mention quite ten years ago, she didn't do anything else since this moment of glory. Maybe because she diversifies too much, as I said before.
I'm fully aware that my posts are a bit pert, and I apologize for it. I have nothing against Charlotte, I just don't have enough vocabulary to really explain what I think. If only I could write in french!! My posts would be less irreverent, because I could turn my thoughts into nice sentences...
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
Trepstep, thanks so much for your input. I do have an additional question/comment regarding Charlotte. I always remember the wonderful Christopher Reeves and the horrific riding accident he had and the awful aftermath. I owned a horse many years ago (at too late an age ) and the experience was not a happy one. My concern is that Charlotte in her desire to move up too quickly will end up having a terrible accident and pay the price. Horses are very large strong animals, not bicycles and making a mistake with them can be a life changing event. That's my concern, and I am wondering if anyone is taking this into account. Certainly one cannot be fearful and ride but at the same time it does call for a certain prudence in making choices regarding the correct horse AND the correct events for a developing equestrian.
PrincessofDurham, this is a very thoughtful post. I often wonder about Princess Caroline and how she feels about Charlotte eventing, which of course though a beautiful sport to watch can also be quite dangerous.

You used the example of the late Christopher Reeve, who was jumping his horse at an event when he suffered his tragic and life changing accident.

I wonder if Princess Caroline thinks of Charlotte's father Stefano-who also loved dangerous sports-when she sees Charlotte ride?

One of the things I admire about Caroline is how she seems not to overprotect or smother her children. She guides them, has obviously provided them with every material advantage...but allows them to go their own way and make their own choices in life. I am sure she is aware of the danger...but Caroline seems a very fatalistic person.

She has raised her children wisely.
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:54 PM
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Charlotte is a showjumper, not an eventer. Eventing is indeed a very dangerous sport, similar to fox hunting. Several people a year die from it. I don't know if anyone has ever died from showjumping. There are some broken bones and bad backs tho. Eventing is actually 3 sports. Cross country?, the dangerous part, dressage and showjumping. Those who survive really are the complete riders.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:13 PM
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Charlotte in Equestrio Magazine, September 2010 (I don't know if it has posted before) The article is on page 100

EQUESTRIO France n18
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