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  #881  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:08 PM
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A few pics at profimedia:
fotografie | fotobanka Profimedia - Události
If they don't show up just type in Charlotte Casiraghi
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  #882  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
I just read this piece of news. Apparently she fell.
People, es-tu là ? - JUMPING DE BORDEAUX - France 3 Régions - France 3
She falls too often. She is playing a really dangerous game
It's true that it is very dangerous. The sport. No one can argue that. And falling is bad. Really bad. One wrong fall and you can be finished. But does she really fall a lot? I don't know if I would say she falls a lot.
When did she fall in the past year? in 2010? In Chantilly, I think...... yes, in Chantilly (or was it Estoril, right before Chantilly) she fell and that's why she had the hand bandage for a short time, though she kept riding. There was another hand injury in 2009 but it was from a car accident, not riding.... And then when she was a teen, she fell a few times. Is this considered a lot, or is it average for a rider? I don't know. In Estoril, I don't know if it was last year or 2009, she had some back pain, but I don't think she fell.

Do you remember that horrible fall that Athina's husband took @ the World Games? His feet were all caught up in the stirrups and the horse was freaking out and dragging him around? It was so scary to see that. The horse was OK but Doda, he had to go to the hospital. And then another day, in the same week, he fell again and that time, the horse was hurt and he was OK. It was a bad week for Doda.
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  #883  
Old 02-04-2011, 07:11 PM
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I think Charlotte jumped 1.35 in the Ladies event today. There was only 1 round today. Maybe they jump 1.40 in the second round tomorrow. Even the best riders fall. There is a video of Meridith Beerbaum taking a superman fall over the head of her horse on YouTube. TrepStep you never give Charlotte any credit. When she does well it's because of her horse. When she does poorly it's her fault. You can't haven't it both ways. It's a team sport and horses still can't read maps as far as I know. The height is not a problem. Charlotte and Tintero did fine in the 6 bar competition at Bois le Roi last fall. They jumped over 1.60m. Timing eg. rhythm seems to be very important in jumping. I don't think she has mastered that yet.

Last nite I was looking at Kevin Staut's list of competitions over the last several years. He didn't start doing really well until about 2009 and he was the French Junior Champion. That's age 29. Charlotte has excellent coaches and is doing fine for her age.
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  #884  
Old 02-04-2011, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
The height is not a problem. Charlotte and Tintero did fine in the 6 bar competition at Bois le Roi last fall. They jumped over 1.60m.
FanofMonaco, I thought you were a rider? Maybe I am mistaken but I thought you were, based in some of your post.
If you are a jumping rider you must know that jumping over a 1.60 in a 3 jumps power competition has nothing to do with solving a 1.40 run. The 1.60 jump is much more easy. On a 3 jumps power competition what you have is a triple jump. I am sorry but I don't explain myself very well in english.
It's like a triple jump. You have first a lower jump, then a slighly higher one, and finallly a really high one, any of them just one stride away from the next one, like a triple jump. All you have to do is get your horse at the right pace to the first jump, and then you stay still and he will do everything else. If the horse has the power he will go over the 3 fences. Technically it's not something difficult. It is spectacular because of the height but not that difficult. Actually most riders don't do power competitions with their best horses, they save them for the real thing.
What I mean is that doing a 1.60 power competition is much much more easy than finishing a 1.40 CSI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
TrepStep you never give Charlotte any credit. When she does well it's because of her horse. When she does poorly it's her fault. It's a team sport and horses still can't read maps as far as I know.
Again, I am sorry but if you are a rider you must know that it makes perfect sense. The horse is 70% of the team. And Charlotte is not a brilliant rider. She is good for an amateur, but that's it. And yes, when she does well it is because she has a very good horse. A good horse can take a so-so rider to 1.30 no problem.
And when she fails it is her fault. The horse can easily do 1.40. He refuses to jump because of Charlotte's lack of skills.

A very good rider improves any horse performance. Charlotte does not have that level. The horses improve her performance.
So, yes, when she does well it is because of the horse, and when she does poorly it is her fault.

Oh, by the way, I've been saying that she is not ready to compete at that level for more than a year. Actually, I said she was going to fail BEFORE she started taking part in 1.40 shows. I don't only say it afterwards, which would be too easy. I don't change my mind depending of what happens.

She does good at 1.20.
She can manage at 1.30 because she's got very good horses. But she should keep on working on that level, she is not proficient enough.
She is not ready for 1.40. It's too much for her.

I'm sorry if that bothers anyone but I think it's pretty obvious.
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  #885  
Old 02-04-2011, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
But does she really fall a lot? I don't know if I would say she falls a lot.
Maybe I am mistaken? I seem to remember several falls during 2010... But as I said I maybe am mistaken.
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  #886  
Old 02-04-2011, 10:03 PM
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^Trep, in my last post, I couldn't remember if she fell @ Estoril or Chantilly. She did fall, I am sure, at some time in 2010. As I said, I only remember one time, in 2010. There was the jump in Estoril, and Chantilly came next. Anyway, in Chantilly she was seen with her hand wrapped up and I believe it was a bad sprain, not a break. There might have been another time last year when she fell, but as I said, I remember only the one time.... maybe I should consult my own timelines.

Fanofmonaco, she did two events today. Prix Clear Channel was first with Troy, then she did the Amazons event with Tintero and that's the one where she was eliminated. The Amazons event was a 1m40. It was for ladies at all levels of the sport.
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  #887  
Old 02-04-2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
When she does well it's because of her horse. When she does poorly it's her fault. You can't haven't it both ways.
I agree entirely.

trepstrep, for you Charlotte doesn't do anything good, if she dress well it's because Gucci, if she does well it's because her horse... whatever she does it's wrong and if she does well, it's by other.

I hope you won't take offense
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  #888  
Old 02-04-2011, 11:26 PM
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I am not a rider Trepstep but I still disagree. For them to be eliminated either Tintero or Charlotte could have made the mistake. For them to succeed they both need to do a good job. The horse can help her to some extent but can't do everything for her. I couldn't do what she is doing no matter how good a horse I had. I agree that the placement of the fences makes a big difference in difficulty but jumping 1.60m even in a straight line is still an accomplishment. Her trainer said in Point de Vue falling and failing is part of the learning process. Most people just don't have to do their learning in front of half the world. One problem I do see that she has is not being able to adjust between the 2 different horses. At first she was riding well on Tintero and getting eliminated on Troy. It looks like this fall she started working with Troy more. Now she is getting eliminated on Tintero and doing better with Troy. She'll get it figured out eventually.
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  #889  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
I am not a rider Trepstep but I still disagree. For them to be eliminated either Tintero or Charlotte could have made the mistake. For them to succeed they both need to do a good job. The horse can help her to some extent but can't do everything for her.
I really really don't want to be disrespectful, but what you say there makes no sense at all. The sport doesn't work that way. No, they don't need to both do a good job in order to succeed. And yes, sometimes the horse does nearly everything for you.

It is never the horse who makes a mistake. Specially not a horse of this level. It is always always always the rider. Humlity is the 1st thing riding tell you.

The horse may have problems (he is badly trained, can have health problems, a bad character), but he doesn't make mistakes because he does what you tell him to do. The rider makes all the mistakes.

When you jump on a level in which you are proficient you usually are able to help the horse. When the level is too much for you and the horse is experienced and very good it is not rare to see how the horse saves you ass.

As I said height per se is not the problem, that's why Charlotte can jump a 1.60 in a straight line. Because after the 1st jump it is the horse who does everything. Every rider in the world jumps much heigher in a straight line than in a parcours. That's how you get used to height!

And Tintero is still her best horse. The reason why she is getting better results with Troy is because with Troy she is jumping at a lower level, I don't know if that is because she still isn't vonfortable enoguh with him or because the owners don't want her to go higher with him.

And I also disagree about what you say about the learning process. I don't know of anbody who goes through the same process Charlotte is going. And it is not because she is in front of the public eye, but because nobody with her level jumps at those high class events.
Please, have a look at the results from yesterday and tell me how many other riders where eliminated? How many times she is nearly the only foreigner in an all dutch, all swiss event?
She is not goinf through a rational learning process. She is going throught some kind of morale shakening skull breaking mad process. Nobody learns like that.

And I don't think she does everything wrong. I don't bash her as a rider. She is a GOOD amateur. She does well, considering the little time she has been able to devote to horse riding yet. And maybe she could be a good pro in the future. But she won't be if she keeps doing what she does now.
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  #890  
Old 02-05-2011, 10:58 AM
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Charlotte is beating Athina Onassis and Marta Ortega in the same event today. There is no such thing as a perfect horse anymore than there is a perfect human.
With Troy she came in 25/53 with 4 faullts.
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  #891  
Old 02-05-2011, 01:15 PM
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About the "perfect house" question, I have to side with Trep here. Horses in jumping are doing what they are taught, so their mistakes reflect that guidance.
It's just a criticism of Charlotte. It's just logic. But anyway, Charlotte did have a sprain last summer from a fall, and I'm pretty sure it was a fall at Estoril and then we saw her competing with the bandage on her hand in Chantilly.
I checked out my timeline. http://www.casiraghifanclub.com/2010jumpings.html
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  #892  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:37 PM
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Here's a gallery of pics from yesterday - click on the small versions to enlarge:


** purepeople: Charlotte Casiraghi lors du Jumping de Bordeaux le 4 février 2011 **
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  #893  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:36 PM
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Ummm...as I jumper rider myself, I'd like to point out that horses are not machines. They have a mind of their own and feelings and opinions. While it's true that a top level horse want to do 'the job' they can, for example, be afraid of the open water or the bank or whatever particular jump because of past experience, etc. I had one mare (the winner from Spruce meadows to Palm Beach) jumped the open water for years until one day as we galloped up, the light bounced of the water and blinded her for a second. She never jumped the water again in her entire career. If she saw the water jump when she came into the ring, she wouldn't even go near that end of the field. I would also like to say that a horse who is what we refer to as 'careful' and wont knock down the jumps, often has a stop in them. If they think they will hit the jump they will decline to jump. Sometimes when that happens the rider will come off.
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  #894  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:00 AM
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^Yeah, horses are so sensitive. It is really amazing, isn't it? Horses are amazing from a psychological POV. My mom is doing the paperwork to rescue a PMU horse (well, a male horse born to a PMU mare) and his name is Dreamwalker and he is so sweet, so mischievous, and just fascinating.....

Charlotte and Troy did well, I think, in the Prix Clear Channel on Saturday. #25 out of 54 all French riders isn't bad. And the fault count was 4, which probably means only one mistake, or two at the most. I forget, a single mistake can earn a rider 2 or 4 points? So........ in the Amazones competition, she and Tintero were 13 out of 18 lady riders and had 0 faults. Athina was 11, Marta Ortega Perez was 16. Charlotte Couperie-Eiffel ranked @ 12, just ahead of CC and Tintero. Charlotte C-E had 4 fault points, while Charlotte C had 0. But Couperie's speed was faster. this was obviously a speed test and not a test of precision.

Sunday
Charlotte will be the 2nd to last to go in the Clear Channel on Sunday. She'll be the fourth (after Marta, before Charlotte Couperie-Eiffel) to go in the Amazon competition.
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  #895  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:58 AM
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Video-Preview of the competetion-Princess Charlotte

Hello there..

Finally I found a video of the competetion, it's posted on the official website of IJB I'm not how to post it here so you can check out from the website..

you can go to presentaion or click on -the jumbing video views- and then click on (from the purple bar) coulisses (the 2nd video)

I hope you'll be able to ckeck it(despite my boring direction)
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  #896  
Old 02-06-2011, 01:15 PM
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CasiTrio I think Charlotte actually came in 7th in the Ladies competition on Saturday when you include the number of faults. She did better than Athina and Marta. I am wondering if the ranking is cumulative for Friday and Saturday. Otherwise, it didn't make any sense. Or maybe they added seconds to the time for fence faults.

This week-end showed me alot about Charlotte's mental toughness. The fact that she brushed off her fall on Friday and came back the next day and rode very well in the Ladies event against many more experienced riders is important. I remember the Gucci Masters in 2009 when Martina Hingis did the same thing. She fell down the first day and came back and got a 3rd place the next day. I remember thinking at the time that mental toughness is one of the things that made her a successful tennis player. It's a necessity for a pro.

Today she did well on her first attempt at 1.45m. She had 1 fence fault and 2 time faults. It is 4 faults for knocking off a rail and 1 fault for each time fault. I don't know how much over the time allowed for each time fault. She came in 16/54 with Troy with a .75 time fault.
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  #897  
Old 02-06-2011, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post

Today she did well on her first attempt at 1.45m. .
I seem to be doing nothing but contradicting you but Charlotte didnt' jump the 1.45 today.
It was a 1.40-1.45 jump off, meaning that first you have to do a 1.40 round. If you do well, then you are allowed to start the 1.45 round. Charlotte didn't pass the 1st round that's why there is a blank on the second column of her results.

And she wasn't 7th on saturday,she was 13th. It was a table c event, meaning that speed was more important than knocking down one pole.
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  #898  
Old 02-06-2011, 03:25 PM
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La cara más divertida de Carlota Casiraghi en la hípica
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  #899  
Old 02-06-2011, 04:45 PM
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she's looking cute! but that bag she holds on the second picture is sort of dreadful
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  #900  
Old 02-06-2011, 06:06 PM
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Thanks for clarifying Trepstep. On Saturday, the table c day, they are only showing 1 round but still show 1.35-1.40. Does that mean she jumped both heights in 1 round? Table c doesn't seem to me to promote good jumping habits. I'm not sure I like that competition.
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