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  #801  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
In Trep's defense, I have to say that she is not "anti" Charlotte. She is just very objective about Charlotte's performance. And she's very objective about Charlotte, imho. That's why Trep is so great to read here. She brings a good balance to all the charlotte-worshipping rhetoric.
IMHO, when someone is objective he says the good and bad things, not only the bad things.

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Can you post this picture? I can not find it.
Here and here
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  #802  
Old 12-07-2010, 04:58 PM
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^Imo,Trep does post good things about Char. I think she posts good things when they are deserved. Not only bad things. But that's just me,I guess.
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  #803  
Old 12-07-2010, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post

It turns out that, according to this

Here is how the Pro-Am Cup resulted (I know it's very confusing they way the results were portrayed, but I have put the pieces together.)
TOP 3:
1) Malin Baryard-Johnsson and Ekaterina Rybolovleva
2) Edwina Alexander and Charlotte Casiraghi
3) Michel Robert and Vincent Bartin

Edwina and Char ALMOST won, but Malin and Ekaterina came in with the final victory. It is mentioned here that it was a narrow victory. Of course, we don't know how narrow because the Gucci Masters website didn't publish the results of this particular competition, so we don't know the times.
I think Charlotte and Edwina were third. According this Malin Baryard-Johnsson and Ekaterina Rybolovleva scored 9,6/10 and Michel Robert and Vincent Bartin 9,5/10.
But I don't know French, so perhaps I'm wrong.
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  #804  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
^Imo,Trep does post good things about Char. I think she posts good things when they are deserved. Not only bad things. But that's just me,I guess.
Wikipedia describes equestrianism as "competitive sports".
To say Charlotte is "playing around" is a silly INACCURATE statement to make.
If equestrianism were a "hobby", TRF would change the thread to Char's equestrian hobby.
So, hopefully this will clear up the TWO inaccurate statements that were made recently.
OK
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  #805  
Old 12-07-2010, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rerehh View Post
I think Charlotte and Edwina were third. According this Malin Baryard-Johnsson and Ekaterina Rybolovleva scored 9,6/10 and Michel Robert and Vincent Bartin 9,5/10.
But I don't know French, so perhaps I'm wrong.
I think you're right. It's a pity they didn't tell us Charlotte and Edwina's score, but it seems logical to assume they were third. I knew they were classed becaues they were up there with all the classed riders during the award ceremony/presentation of the cheque. (loving spelling "check" like that, so much nicer.)

Known results:
*Malin Baryard-Johnsson and Ekaterina Rybolovleva 9,6/10
*Michel Robert and Vincent Bartin 9,5/10
3?) Edwina and Charlotte ?
*Roger Yves Bost (aka Bosty) and Ben Castaldi 4,6/10

P.S. I am the guilty person who started this thread and gave it its name. I was ill informed at the time. Why should TRF change it? There is no "fact" in this question. We all see it as we will see it. You can say it is a serious career for her, or you can say like Trep it is an expensive hobby. It doesn't matter. Why does it matter?
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  #806  
Old 12-07-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
I think you're right. It's a pity they didn't tell us Charlotte and Edwina's score, but it seems logical to assume they were third. I knew they were classed becaues they were up there with all the classed riders during the award ceremony/presentation of the cheque. (loving spelling "check" like that, so much nicer.)

Known results:
*Malin Baryard-Johnsson and Ekaterina Rybolovleva 9,6/10
*Michel Robert and Vincent Bartin 9,5/10
3?) Edwina and Charlotte ?
*Roger Yves Bost (aka Bosty) and Ben Castaldi 4,6/10

P.S. I am the guilty person who started this thread and gave it its name. I was ill informed at the time. Why should TRF change it? There is no "fact" in this question. We all see it as we will see it. You can say it is a serious career for her, or you can say like Trep it is an expensive hobby. It doesn't matter. Why does it matter?
LOL, I'll remember that if I ever start a new thread.
I don't know about serious career, ie if she could be another Zara Phillips,
But I think it would be nice if she could make it something useful and productive, like maybe a commentator or something.
I really know nothing about horses so I'm out of my depth.
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  #807  
Old 12-07-2010, 08:14 PM
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Thanks, casiraghitrio :-)
I really don't think that I am anti-Charlotte or that I say only bad things about her.

I think she has an incredibly beautiful face.
I'm pretty sure she is a very intelligent young woman, since she got a très bien in her bac.
She seems to have wide interests in her life from arts, to sports, litterature, philosophy.
I've stated several times that she seems a very level-headed girl, who clearly looks for a partner with something in his head/personality/intelligence, since none of her 2 boyfriends have been specially handsome. She obvioulsy doesn't go just for the looks of someone and doesn't waste her time with actors, or empty-headed celebrities.
From what we see in pictures she seems very caring and sweet person, she loves her family, friends...
I believe these are all very good things.
I think I also said that "maybe" she has the talent to be a great writer, journalist or a horsewoman (we just don't know)


But I also think that she has an ugly body shape, that her posture is really bad and that she's failed in the main things she's undertaken because she never bothered to be humble enough to go through a proper training period.

That said, I don't care what's the title in this thread, "career" is a word with many meanings. In any case Charlotte is an amateur, she's very very very far a way from professional or top level and her horse riding can't be considered more than a hobby by any means. Maybe in a future this will change, but now that's what it is.
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  #808  
Old 12-07-2010, 09:42 PM
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Technically I think Charlotte is a professional because Gucci is paying her riding expenses. To date though she is riding at an amateur level. In the US she would be considered in the minor leagues or semi-pro.
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  #809  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Technically I think Charlotte is a professional because Gucci is paying her riding expenses. To date though she is riding at an amateur level. In the US she would be considered in the minor leagues or semi-pro.
I agree as well. It would nice if we could see her at the same level as Zara Phillips. But I think she's a long way from there. Again I know nothing about horses, just my impression.
Whatever level, this Gucci gig is not "playing around", Gucci is not about to drop major money for someone frivolous who "plays around" with horses.
Also it's nice to see her come in 4th place, she didn't win, but at least it's not another on of her "failures".
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  #810  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Vanya Trubetskoy View Post
I agree as well. It would nice if we could see her at the same level as Zara Phillips. But I think she's a long way from there. Again I know nothing about horses, just my impression.
Whatever level, this Gucci gig is not "playing around", Gucci is not about to drop major money for someone frivolous who "plays around" with horses.
Also it's nice to see her come in 4th place, she didn't win, but at least it's not another on of her "failures".
I wonder how Trepstep's equestrian efforts/record compares to Charlotte's, since she said she also rides - not sure what circuit, but perhaps she's good enough to compare their skills to know what constitutes "failure" and "playing around" in the equestrian world.
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  #811  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:15 AM
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In the US, Charlotte would be riding in the low to medium amateur owner divisions, assuming no compensation for riding, just for prize money. If she is getting compensated by Gucci, she would be riding in the 'open' division of whatever height, against professionals wha make their living on prize money, training fees, and profits on horses.

In every equestrian career, there are years that are great successes, and years that are not. Sometimes I consider it a great success, for example, to get a horse to jump the open water or the bank when they are afraid, regardless of whether we finish in the money. That comes later. ie, success is progress, not necessarily winning that day. To me, it's always a matter of did you do your best on that given day, not did you come home with a ribbon of a particular color.
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  #812  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
In the US, Charlotte would be riding in the low to medium amateur owner divisions, assuming no compensation for riding, just for prize money. If she is getting compensated by Gucci, she would be riding in the 'open' division of whatever height, against professionals wha make their living on prize money, training fees, and profits on horses.

In every equestrian career, there are years that are great successes, and years that are not. Sometimes I consider it a great success, for example, to get a horse to jump the open water or the bank when they are afraid, regardless of whether we finish in the money. That comes later. ie, success is progress, not necessarily winning that day. To me, it's always a matter of did you do your best on that given day, not did you come home with a ribbon of a particular color.
Well said - I think, whether people commenting her are experienced equestrians, or not, all recognize that horses have minds of their own, and like people, can experience fear, have a bad day, etc - you are correct in the description of what may constitute "success" - not always about winning and/or coming in 1st.
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  #813  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseygal View Post
I wonder how Trepstep's equestrian efforts/record compares to Charlotte's, since she said she also rides - not sure what circuit, but perhaps she's good enough to compare their skills to know what constitutes "failure" and "playing around" in the equestrian world.
Well, I don't consider myself a top rider by any means!! I'm just an amateur. But I've been riding for 20 years now, usually among pros: racetrack, a bit of eventing and just arrived to the jumping world 3 years ago. This autumn I'm riding mostly CSNs, always near Paris, at around 1'40.

I don't think that anyone is a failure because she's not in the top level. Maybe your expectations are just to enjoy yourself, or get a horse who doesn't like to jump over a small fence.
I think that Charlotte career doesn't go well not because she isn't winning a CSI****, but because her results don't match her ambitions.
She's got top horses, top trainer, a lot of money, enters the bigger circuits...
And, that's the clue, her horses are doing much worst than a year ago.
When you buy a horse who runs succesfully 1'45, and a year after that same horse is getting eliminated at 1'30... you're ruining it.

I don't think that you fail at something because you don't get to the top. If that were the case most of us would be failures. I think that you fail when you set a target, an objective for yourself and you don't reach it by a long stretch

A person could be succesful running a 0'80 low amateur course, and another one be a failure while getting a prize at 1'30.
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  #814  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:56 PM
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I've noticed that the top 60 riders in the GCT finish all over the place. They may come in first one day and last the next. No one seems to dominate like in golf or tennis. For Charlotte to finish in the top 5 most of the time, it would mean she would probably be competing at too easy a level for her. At this stage she is pushing herself and trying to master new skills. How she places is not the top priority. I've also noticed that some of the lower pro riders ride at the lower star levels, especially 2 star, to pay for their expenses.
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  #815  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:16 PM
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You can clearly see Charlotte is enjoying is herself, but it has been said a lot that in order to become a good competitor, you have to start at the bottom. Horse riding is still about understanding your horse and getting to know him/her more. If you want to go pro, make sacrifices, go into training abroad and basically leave your social life behind. Not that I mind she's not doing just that, because I'll miss seeing daily pics of her, but going pro means sacrifice.

Though I believe she has the heart in the right place. Very genuine in her intentions to promote the sport but I really really wish she'd take on another trainer, ride lower and come back in a year.
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  #816  
Old 12-08-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Technically I think Charlotte is a professional because Gucci is paying her riding expenses. To date though she is riding at an amateur level. In the US she would be considered in the minor leagues or semi-pro.
Just consider it like this. Edwina Alexander is a pro. She needed an "amateur" for the Pro-Am Cup. She chose Charlotte. She could not have had Charlotte on her team if Charlotte was a pro as well. That's why it is the "Pro-Am" Cup.
And Edwina is definitely the Pro in the equation. 'Nuff Said.
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  #817  
Old 12-08-2010, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Just consider it like this. Edwina Alexander is a pro. She needed an "amateur" for the Pro-Am Cup. She chose Charlotte. She could not have had Charlotte on her team if Charlotte was a pro as well. That's why it is the "Pro-Am" Cup.
And Edwina is definitely the Pro in the equation. 'Nuff Said.

Well said CasiraghiTrio

Charlotte cannot be considered a pro just because she gets paid off
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  #818  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
Well, I don't consider myself a top rider by any means!! I'm just an amateur. But I've been riding for 20 years now, usually among pros: racetrack, a bit of eventing and just arrived to the jumping world 3 years ago. This autumn I'm riding mostly CSNs, always near Paris, at around 1'40.

I don't think that anyone is a failure because she's not in the top level. Maybe your expectations are just to enjoy yourself, or get a horse who doesn't like to jump over a small fence.
I think that Charlotte career doesn't go well not because she isn't winning a CSI****, but because her results don't match her ambitions.
She's got top horses, top trainer, a lot of money, enters the bigger circuits...
And, that's the clue, her horses are doing much worst than a year ago.
When you buy a horse who runs succesfully 1'45, and a year after that same horse is getting eliminated at 1'30... you're ruining it.

I don't think that you fail at something because you don't get to the top. If that were the case most of us would be failures. I think that you fail when you set a target, an objective for yourself and you don't reach it by a long stretch

A person could be succesful running a 0'80 low amateur course, and another one be a failure while getting a prize at 1'30.
Just as a frame of reference, here in the USA, low junior amateur would be begining about 1.25. Did Charlotte ever comment on wanting to ride in the GP division?
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  #819  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:59 PM
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The Gucci Masters interviewer asked her if she would like to ride in the big events for Monaco. She answered something like- Of course. That would be fantastic. But I have alot of work to do to get there. I think she would like to see how far she can go. I think she just started a little GP this fall at 1* and 2*, Brussels, Lyon and Paris. Unfortunately she has been eliminated each time so far. Tintero is showing up with Charlotte riding on the FEI site now. She isn't showing up as a rider because she hasn't earned any points yet.
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  #820  
Old 12-09-2010, 08:10 AM
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Charlotte will be competing at Concours Hippique International de Genève tomorrow

Start lists and results
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