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  #41  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:06 AM
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Yes, both are turned out beautifully
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  #42  
Old 11-22-2009, 04:21 PM
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I think...

...SO SO MUCH...BOTH OF THEME...
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  #43  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:10 AM
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There are more pictures of Charlotte on abaca press website competing in Bois le Roi.

Abaca Press Americas Search Results

Wonder where's the white horse we saw yesterday?
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  #44  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:56 AM
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Maybe she was just "testing" him.
This horse (obviously not GI Joe either) seems to be a good one for jumping.
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  #45  
Old 11-23-2009, 02:32 PM
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I guess so. Maybe a stupid question---but is G.I. Joe a thoroughbred? What about the horse she's riding in the ABACA press pictures?
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  #46  
Old 11-23-2009, 05:43 PM
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Mehh, I don't like this horse as much as GI Joe. Maybe because I don't like white horses. As they get more and more white when coming off age. They look great when around 4 years old.
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  #47  
Old 11-23-2009, 11:25 PM
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Is GI Joe an older horse? Maybe she's trying out new rides in the event they are retiring GI Joe....
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  #48  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:27 AM
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GI Joe is a mature horse, but by no way old. Maybe she was testing the gray horse, but more likely she was just helping out some friend with the warming up.
I don't know GI Joe's bred, but he doesn't really look like a thoroughbred. He probably has some english blood in him though, judging by the nice small head.
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  #49  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:09 PM
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She may have kept GI Joe but she might not use it for the competitions anymore.
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  #50  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:55 PM
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Old horses don't go to the circuit anymore. Though 12 years is already regarded as old in the proffesional horse world.

The white horse is, I guess around the 8 years and older.
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  #51  
Old 11-24-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Old horses don't go to the circuit anymore. Though 12 years is already regarded as old in the proffesional horse world.

The white horse is, I guess around the 8 years and older.
Charlotte DID compete on GI JOE. And she rides at amateur level and jumps medium highs. She's very far away from the profesional world.

And I don't agree about the 12 year old horses regarded as old at all. Check the global champions tour 4 first places at Doha final:
Global Champions Tour

Two 11 year-old, one 13 year-old, and one 15 year-old.
And not a single horse among the 10 top placed is under 10 years old.

An 8 years old is still a baby in the professional jumping world. GI JOe is 11 and still has his best competition years ahead of him.

Some info on Charlotte's new horse. It's name is Tintero and he's a 10 year old warmblood born in Mexico. He measures 1.68
His rider used to be the mexican Federico Fernández Senderos and has been doing very well on 1.50 on top level competitions. I don't know if Charlotte's bought it or if it belongs to someone else and she's just her rider, but it is a top level horse, even better than GI Joe.
Once she gets used to it, she has no excuses to keep getting bad results at 1.20 m competitions any more!

Charlotte rode him on friday at a 1.10 amateur competion in Bois le Roi, got 8 points and placed 31st among 35 riders.
On saturday she rode a 1.20 both with Tintero and GIJOE. She got 0 points with Tintero and ranked 8th, and 4 points with GI JOE
Sunday she rode another 1.20 with Tintero and got another 0 points and placed finished in the place number 12.

jump-results.com
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  #52  
Old 11-24-2009, 04:42 PM
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That doesn't sound very good. I would think given how long Charlotte's been doing this that she would be better. Or maybe I'm wrong, I don'tknow much about the sport. Are even the amateur levels difficult?
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  #53  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
Charlotte DID compete on GI JOE. And she rides at amateur level and jumps medium highs. She's very far away from the profesional world.

And I don't agree about the 12 year old horses regarded as old at all. Check the global champions tour 4 first places at Doha final:
Global Champions Tour

Two 11 year-old, one 13 year-old, and one 15 year-old.
And not a single horse among the 10 top placed is under 10 years old.

An 8 years old is still a baby in the professional jumping world. GI JOe is 11 and still has his best competition years ahead of him.
Just read will you? I know she competed with GI Joe (Did I ever say she didn't?) And yes, I do know she rides at amateur level, which is the reason I bashed the sponsor thing at TFS.
And now, 12 ís seen as old in the professional circuit. Whetever you like it or not. Dressage horses go a longer way but most of them retire at the age of 14/15 to 16, it takes longer to train them. Jumping horses tend to retire at the age of 13/14, even if it is not necessesary but a lot of riders (not all) or sponsors go for a younger horse. Jumping horses' muscles suffer more, which is a reason why they don't live as long as any other 'gardenhorse.'

Albert Zoer next tophorse is 8, Okidoki (Worth 4M!) is 14. And as soon as Sam is ready to come on in, he will go further with him.
Bluhorse Matine was 9 (!!) years old when she gave one of her greatest performance in her career. When she came second after Anky van Grunsven and Salinero.
The tophorse of Edward Gal, 9 years old and has set the level of dressage to an immensly high level, sets worldrecords and makes everyone freeze and cry. At the age of 9 this horse is alreay regarded as the greatest.

That are just one of the few examples of the horses who are ought to be at the highest level of the proffesional circuit at a young age. And that's the way it works. They peak early and will not ride on full force till the age of 18 because they simply can't. There is a reason why Salinero will most likely not perform on the next Olympic Games because he is simply too old at that time. Do I agree? No, not entirely but that's just the way it works and when a horse is 12, you want to make it proffesionally (And not impleying that Charlotte wants to), then 12 years is simply too old. Jumping and dressage horses come in at the age of 8/9, peak at the age of 11/12 and will retire later on. Simple

12 years is regarded as old in the proffesional circuit and that has always been like that. Doesn't mean they are actually old, but horses right now have to compete strongly at a very young age. I see horses here at the age of 6 already at the ZZ-Zwaar level, which is too soon for my liking. Not every horse comes in at a very young age, but it's common for the GP-riding circuit if they do.
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  #54  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:54 PM
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This is not the right place to discuss this topic, but I can't help it since a lot of the things you say don't make sense.
8 years old is and has always been young for an elite showjumping horse. At 8 most horses are just promising and the aren't in their prime until a few years later.

Don't talk about "next" top horses. The very word "next" means that they are just promises right now. Simply check the results of the top level cometitions aka the global champions tour, and you'll see how rarely a horse reaches top level before he is 10 years old, while you'll find plenty of 12, 13, 14 year old horses. And that's a fact, not something to be discussed.

You should also check your facts and talk to some profesionals if you really think that the tendons of top level dressage horses are less chastised than the jumper's. Your obvioulsy badly informed. I've been moving in the professional horse world since I was born, so I really know what I'm talking about, even if my english isn't very good.

Salinero is 15 years old and will be 18 at the next Olympics. Of course he will be old.
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  #55  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:04 PM
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Yes, ofcourse it's a fact that plenty of 14 ad up compete the most and I, as a dressage maniac, look more into the dressage world. And that is a world where the 9 year old makes out the bussiness.

The Netherlands is a country where the horseworld is very much alive. And every person I know doesn't think an 12 year old is young. Doesn't matter to me, as I ride an 18-year old but that's the way it goes in the competitions here. A 12 year is not regarded as young.

Albert Zoer has said so himself (And I rate his opinion higher than I do yours, sorry); Okidoki is getting old for comeption. He wanted to sell him after the OG, didn't because of his broken leg.

And it has been pointed out that jumpers get more blows on the knees. One reason why they retire sooner than dressage horses do.

But this is indeed not the place to discuss. If you feel the need to continue, PM box is open.
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  #56  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kells View Post
That doesn't sound very good. I would think given how long Charlotte's been doing this that she would be better. Or maybe I'm wrong, I don'tknow much about the sport. Are even the amateur levels difficult?
Actually if both the rider and horse are inexperienced, they will not rank as high because more jumps are missed or refused, a fall may occur, etc. Sometimes (as I've said before), a new coach is needed to shake up both and improve their skills. When either the rider or horse is stronger than the other, that can also create problems because they are fighting each other for control.....I've experienced all of the above - granted, I wasn't trying to be professional or anything, so I'm not ranked anywhere - simply speaking as a non-professional rider, but still experienced. I don't think Charlotte is trying to be a professional-level rider, either, more doing it for the experience, and to support the sport.
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  #57  
Old 11-27-2009, 09:16 AM
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You know, Empress, I kind of got the feeling that we are trying to say the same thing, and all this is a misunderstanding coming from not being english native speakers.

If what you mean is that Federico Fernández Senderos sold Tintero to Charlotte because at 10 years old he already knew what its level was, and was alreagy old to have hopes of improvement, I agree with you.
Wealthy amateurs, like Charlotte, often buy horses around that age that the top riders have discarded because although they are very good, they are not the top horse they are wainting for. Of course at 10 years old you already know what to expect from a horse, and Tintero may not have the level to win the Grand Prix at a global champions tour (that's the level his former rider was competing in) but is still an amazing horse for an amateur.

Of course a 10 or 12 year old is a mature horse in the sense that you already know what to expect from him. It's not a project full of hopes like a young horse of 6 or 7. What I meant is that an 8 year old is young for top level competition in the sense that his best years are still to come, and he has't yet peaked as he will between say, 11 and 13. Most horses at 8 haven't started to show the best of themselves.
Of course top horses are so expensive that a lot riders try to sell them just before they start their downway hill, in order to get a good prize for them. A top rider won't buy his "next top horse" at 12, of course, that's old to buy a top horse. But it doesn't mean the horse is old for competition since his best years are yet to come.
And I was not trying to make the horse I ride pass for younger than he is, I swear, since my very own horse (I ride several others) is only 7!

Charlotte's purchase seems very reasonable to me. She's bought a horse who jumped the Grand Prix at top level international competitions. It must have been really expensive. But she's got the money! If she's a little bit talented a horse like this should allow her to have very good results at 1.30 amateur competitions.
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  #58  
Old 11-27-2009, 05:13 PM
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Yes, on this I fully agree on you.
When it comes to horses I can't really express myself in English.
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  #59  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:20 AM
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Many good 'Amateurs' will go to Germany or Holland to train. One of the frustrating things about the High Amateur division is that in many ways it's more difficult to win than in the professional division. A professional most often will sell his/her best horse right at the top of it's career to get the best price (think Will Simpson and Carlsson Vom Dach won the Gold at the last Olymics and instantly sold). One of the big wallet amateurs like Athina Onassis or Georgina Bloomberg or Bruce Springsteen's daughter have an unlimited check book to go play.
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  #60  
Old 12-04-2009, 12:18 PM
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Pics 4.12.2009

Charlotte Casiraghi during a competition in Marseille,
France, December 4, 2009:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 ** belga **
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