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  #561  
Old 08-16-2010, 06:19 AM
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I haven't been following Charlotte for a while, but I just had a look at her videos on the GCT website and although there is no video of Troy I think that it is not difficult to see why she has so different results with Troy and Tintero.

Tintero has such a good head! Amazing horse, incredibly strong mental! I've seen a couple of videos and Charlotte mistakes the distances very very often (which is normal for a amateur rider at such heigh). Most times she takes the jumps from too close, but in certain ocasions she also gets there too far away.
Nothing matters to Tintero. What a heart! He knows his job and looks like he would jump through fire!

Troy is obviously made of a different stuff. He probably is a sentitive quality horse who doesn't like mistakes. If you don't do things right he won't jump because he doesn't trust you. With a pro-rider (we've seen that with Thierry he finishes his runs) or with a correct amateur rider (the kind who aren't brilliant but know it and focus on not bothering the horse) he probably will do great. But with Charlotte I guess that he's just loosing confidence. Obviously he wasn't the horse for her or anyone else who's still learning.
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  #562  
Old 08-16-2010, 09:07 AM
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^I agree 100% trepstep. I think you are spot on about both horses. Tintero is a carefree kind of guy. He's so easy. He's the horse for Charlotte. Troy is sensitive, brilliant but sensitive and I have seen his distaste for Charlotte's way. I know he doesn't trust her. This is why he is always refusing to jump. Charlotte doesn't, or can't, give him the assurance. It's not her fault or anything. Maybe she is only starting to understand this, maybe Thierry finally got her to understand it? Valkenswaard was better than it was for awhile between Troy and Charlotte, but still he had those two jump refusals.

You saw with Thierry at Valk. Horse Festival Troy won, right? Maybe that gave Troy some confidence.

Only one more thing to say: Tintero is a Mexican gelding; Troy is a Dutch stallion! This should say much! Troy is sensitive Dutch with testosterone. Tintero is a salsa-dancing Mexican, living for the moment, having a party!!!!
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  #563  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:13 PM
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A little PDF on Charlotte's equestrian "career" or "hobby" (pick the term that satisfies you and roll with it)

http://www.casiraghifanclub.com/casihorses.pdf
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  #564  
Old 08-17-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
A little PDF on Charlotte's equestrian "career" or "hobby" (pick the term that satisfies you and roll with it)

http://www.casiraghifanclub.com/casihorses.pdf
VERY cool and knowledgeable....
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  #565  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:10 PM
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Here is something interesting. Of course... this article in Portuguese from Brazil is about the runup to the CSI Athina Onassis/GCT Rio this week. But the thing that is about Charlotte:

Her trainer, Thierry Rozier, has actually been quoted in Newsweek (why such a magazine gives coverage like this, I don't know) saying Charlotte does not want to be known as a socialite (fair enough!) but instead would like to be known as a professional. The article (of "O Dia", not Newsweek) points out that she still competes at amateur level. They also say that while she is "only" an amateur, she looks pretty in her Gucci and brings "charm" and glamour to the sport. This is what they say.
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  #566  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:40 PM
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^Just like cousin Pauline, she wants to be recognized as a professional, not as the "daughter of" or "socialite" as she says.
It's pitty that everybody see her as socialite.
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  #567  
Old 08-24-2010, 08:13 AM
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^Totally. But you have to admit, sometimes she does act like a socialite. Or did, more so prior to her return to jumping.... 2007/2008 were the worst years for that, imho.

At any rate, we're two days away from the GCT Rio.

Here is the rider's list, and a beautiful ariel of the arena.
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  #568  
Old 08-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nathalie Cox View Post
^Just like cousin Pauline, she wants to be recognized as a professional, not as the "daughter of" or "socialite" as she says.
It's pitty that everybody see her as socialite.
Well, that probably is because in order to be recognazed as a professional you have to be one.

It''s like saying that I would be recognized as a talented soap opera star while working a cashier in the local supermarket.

How on earth do you want people to recognize you as a professional if all you do is enjoy parties, travelling and horseriding? And, again, I don't think she does wrong. If I had her kind of money I'd do like her. I'll travel, I'll ride, I'll enjoy life with my friends. But I wouldn't go complaining because nobody thinks I am a professional...
I really thing that claim couldn't be more stupid.
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  #569  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:10 AM
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Well, what do you guys suggest that Charlotte do in order to be considered someone who is serious about having an equestrian career?

Because lets face it there are a lot of rich young women who like horses who are socialities, so what does Charlotte need to do to be taken seriously?
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  #570  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:18 AM
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I take her seriously as someone who would like be a professional .... something. I take her seriously as a typical 24-year-old who doesn't know exactly what she wants. I think for now she thinks she wants to be a serious jumping rider. And even if she isn't a serious one, she is at least a jumping rider aiming to be (seen as) a serious rider. For now.

I take her seriously, but I also take it with a grain of salt, because she is 24 and she still gives me the impression that she isn't quite settled on her "thing" yet. Today it's jumping.
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  #571  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:20 AM
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Well, I am not familiar with the horse world. Athina Onassis is around the same age. She does appear to take it seriously. I hate to bring up comparisons...but comparing the two would you still say that Charlotte takes it seriously? I mean, I can totally understand stepping back to focus on her education.
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  #572  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well, I am not familiar with the horse world. Athina Onassis is around the same age. She does appear to take it seriously. I hate to bring up comparisons...but comparing the two would you still say that Charlotte takes it seriously? I mean, I can totally understand stepping back to focus on her education.
I think that she considers that she has finished her education.
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  #573  
Old 08-24-2010, 09:29 AM
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Lightbulb Charlotte concentration !!!

I ask for excuse, for the delay but I am in Portugal, with almost all the family to pass vacation, and the time to go to the internet is limited.

Hello

Perhaps the vacations carried through for CHAR. in Portugal, follow the Chantilly, had not been enough to come back the necessary concentration, and inteligence is necessary to this sport.

Maybe the trips for the Mediterranean with is mother, it it has recouped the lucidity, and intelligence; to star in win prize giving to was in the hipism.

We are practically in the end of GCT 2010; e until seems that it started yesterday in Spain.

It has part that about the burrow, (CHAR.) I think that whichever the result of Rio de Janeiro; the participation carried through for the CHAR. it was reasonable; having the race of (Chantilly) its worse, and the participation in Holland the best off.

I did not have chance to see in the Eurosport, the participation of CHAR. in day 13, but I see the course of days 14, and 15; with special unpleasantness of this last one; for the following reasons:

1) He is proven of that TINTERO is the best horse that CHAR. it had until the present a date, by the way as already I affirmed in the last post.

2) If TROY does not jump, is for entire guilt of the CHAR., without a doubt.

If you repair in day 14, (S33 course) the CHAR. it entered very well with TINTEIRO, and TROY, Sufficiently intent, and motivated; without lacks, an authentic professional.

No longer day 15 was a disaster … Since the beginning it gave to perceive of that CHAR. it was with the head in the moon, and not on of the shoulders; as it would have, lets us see:

In the S43 course, everything ran well to the exception of (Oxer - jump nº 11); CHAR. it carries through a serious error, in prolongating in way step, the point of stroke, in the approach; the horse still of the one last effort, giving a violent vertical strain, to be able to run away to the obstacle, but was inevitable; its knocks down. It was a serious error, that if paid expensive, therefore was hindered to go to jump-off; if it had not committed this error, would have been in an excellent position, that is; third place with 72,28 seconds, would be its better result of always, and would go to jump-off; as a professional.

In relation to the S46 course; it was a total shame, for a knight with the CHAR experience. It has to admit that if TROY does not jump is for guilt entirely of it, lets sees:

Repair in 1º error carried through for CHAR. it advances for the jump nº 1 (Vertical), practically on of the supports, that is CHAR. it is incapable to center the horse in the way Vertical it, as if it can see in the videos of the Eurosport.

2º error, is one of the reasons for what TROY rejected to jump has to see, with the impulse that is, the force who the horse leads to transpose the obstacle, is about a test of 1,35cm, in this case TROY would have to go in FULL TROT SPEED TRUST, and not half speed trot impluse) therefore this when having conscience of that it went very slow for the obstacle, and badly centered in the way Vertical it, rejects to jump; and WITH REASON !!!

CHAR. comes back, and it carries the same error again … the horse (under pressure) for the three lashing that it led previously, makes a suplemental effort and … it jumps to the tangent.

The 2ª jump as approach of excellent form , that is ... FULL TROT SPEED TRUST … and guess whant ? TROY jumps very well !!!

3º obstacle (Vertical) without error. Approach of the oxer nº4 CHAR. reduce the FULL TROT SPEED to the half trot speed, and whant whose the resultes ??? ELIMINATION !!!


The horse has conscience of that it is a oxer, and the speed that leads it does not obtain to transpose, clearly; therefore if before in a simple Vertical line it does not jump, or jumps to the tangent; in this oxer, would be very worse; TROY opposes to jump it clearly, repairs in the mouth of the horse, as it does not follow the CHAR instructions.

THE HORSES ARE NOT STUPIDS !!!

I wish better concentration in RIO, because this is a sport with a little of danger , and a crash is not good, to any one, lot whant happend to Athina, by the way i´m glad to see Athina back to the business again.

CHARLOTTE CONCENTRATION !!!
(or; you going to the grass, baby and we dont whant that, do it ?


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  #574  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well, what do you guys suggest that Charlotte do in order to be considered someone who is serious about having an equestrian career?

Because lets face it there are a lot of rich young women who like horses who are socialities, so what does Charlotte need to do to be taken seriously?
Frankly, I don't think there is anything she can do. You can't become a top sportswoman just because you would like to. Either you have the talent or you don't.
Very few people can become professional sportsmen.
Charlotte's got the early start, the money, the trainers, the horses... and I'm sure she takes horseriding seriously. She just doesn't have the talent.

Nothing wrong with that. Most people involved in horse riding are just amateurs. And she is not bad as such. But if she really intends to be seen as a profesional she is either very naive or very pretentious.

Take Valentine. She is a far better rider than Charlotte. Actually, she is better than many many professional riders. But when asked about whether she was a pro or an amateur, she was clear "horses are just my passion", she said. She doesn't intend to pass as a professional. And she doesn't need to.
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  #575  
Old 08-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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And again, since I don't follow the sport. What denotes talent. In swimming it might be said that you have talent because you are the fastest, in ice skating athelticism and grace, so what does she need to have that she doesn't?
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  #576  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:00 AM
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trepstep, in order to see real talent in horseriding, you also need to see them working together outside the arena and at training.

For me, talent in horseriding is the feeling you have for horses. The ability to ride various of horses with all different characters and handling them, communicate with them. You're not born as a good rider as some people are born with the obvious talent as a good swimmer or a runner. No, a good horse rider comes with the years. Years of training, devotion and hard work. Some have more feel for horses than the other, but I believe that every person, with hard work and a good will, can become a good rider.

Because really, talent does not say everything at all. You can have the best footbal talent on your team, but if he or she is not willing to expand that talent to become better, you're worthless.

Becoming good in horseriding is a matter of devotion, loving them, hard work and lot's of training. Every day. 24/7 and every day of the year. And ofcourse, the money.

I think Charlotte does have talent, I think every person has talent in dealing with animals. (you just have to want it and step over your fear) and Charlotte has loved horses since she was little and I see devotion and care for them. Or else she would've quit and sit front-row at Chanel. But I don't think Charlotte realises what it takes to become a professional. To be seen as one.

That takes a whole lot more than just show up at matches and divide most of your time to horses. It needs all your time. Anky van Grunsven and Meredith Michaels-Beerbaum didn't become the world's best riders by spending half their time with horses and the rest socializing. No, they sacrificied that part for their career and sport. And A) I don't think Charlotte realises that, as she doesn't have to work hard to get money to compete or to get sponsors, and B) I don't think she's willing to give up her social life for the sport. And that is exactly what it takes to become a professional and make it in the equestrian world. Sacrifice and devotion
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  #577  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
Frankly, I don't think there is anything she can do. You can't become a top sportswoman just because you would like to. Either you have the talent or you don't.
Very few people can become professional sportsmen.
Charlotte's got the early start, the money, the trainers, the horses... and I'm sure she takes horseriding seriously. She just doesn't have the talent.
Nothing wrong with that. Most people involved in horse riding are just amateurs. And he is good as an amateur. But that's was she is.
I think that's true. I think money, training and technical ability only takes you so far, in the end some people just have a natural gift where others do not (I keep coming back to Mark Todd - the man could do cross country on a cow ). Charlotte seems to struggle a little with the amateur level jumps (that's just my assessment). I dread to think what she'd be like at professional heights.
Zonk - clearing jumps more often, having less refusals (which is a more a matter of understanding your horse IMO) and ranking higher more consistently (in the invitational classes) would be a good start. And getting a better jumping/riding position. I worry she'll fall off sometimes.
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  #578  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:07 AM
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And again, since I don't follow the sport. What denotes talent. In swimming it might be said that you have talent because you are the fastest, in ice skating athelticism and grace, so what does she need to have that she doesn't?
It's so difficult to explain! Precisely because horseriding is not about being the stronger or the fastests.
Horse riding is a little bit about guts on some level, but mostly is is about technique and sensitivity. A quality that makes some people be one with their horses and understand them. Showjumping is also a bit about balance, but also very much about precision, and lightness and a space-speed pace and vision that very few people have
To make is shorter:
there is an old saying that appplies mostly to horse racing but could aplly to jumping on a certain level.
"A good rider is a rider who does not lose a race he should win"
Meaning that a good rider is some one who doesn't detract anything from his horse. In an equestrian sport the horse is 70% of the team. If you have the best horse and you don't do anything wrong, you'll win. But not doing anything wrong is awfully hard when riding a horse!
Tintero has a top head, he is incredibly balanced and althugh he would do much better with a better rider he doesn't do that bad with Charlotte.
Troy is a better horse on paper. But with the 30% correctness of the rider missing, there is nothing to do, because he is sensitive and demanding.
With Thierry he finishes his runs, while with Charlotte he doesn't even jump.
So, you could say that Charlotte is a rider who loses the races she should win. She does good with horses who do all the job. But with complicated horses, like Troy, she obviolsy doesn't work. She doesn't improve her horses, she detracts from them.
Probably, as Empress Merel said, if she rode more... But she doesn't seem to spend enough time on horse to improve to the level professional competition requieres.
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  #579  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:20 AM
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I'm just giving an example. Edward Gal started riding when he was 14 years old on a riding school on your average riding school horse. And hell, he's not the most talented rider out there either. But he devoted his life to his sport, he got good training and got lucky with his horses. Such as Lingh and Gribaldi. And now he's riding the greatest horse the world has ever known: Moorland's Totilas. (that horse leaves me breathless)

But he also knows that if people call him the most talented rider, they'd be lying. Since the age of 14 till the age he is now, he has dedicated his life to where he is now. And I believe that that's what it takes to become great. Years and years of dedication and deteremination. And well, he also knows that without Totilas, he wouldn't be the world's greatest rider either. Because the horse has the talent. The rider is there to excell it, to expand it and to train that talent. And well, making a horse better than all the others is a talent and feeling on it's own not meant for every amateur on the world. If that was so, the sheik's daughters would be number 1 in the world.



This clip is btw, a must watch. It will take your breath away.
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  #580  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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Thanks to all for the responses! I think I understand the sport a lot better now.
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