Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


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In the US, Charlotte would be riding in the low to medium amateur owner divisions, assuming no compensation for riding, just for prize money. If she is getting compensated by Gucci, she would be riding in the 'open' division of whatever height, against professionals wha make their living on prize money, training fees, and profits on horses.

In every equestrian career, there are years that are great successes, and years that are not. Sometimes I consider it a great success, for example, to get a horse to jump the open water or the bank when they are afraid, regardless of whether we finish in the money. That comes later. ie, success is progress, not necessarily winning that day. To me, it's always a matter of did you do your best on that given day, not did you come home with a ribbon of a particular color.
 
scooter said:
In the US, Charlotte would be riding in the low to medium amateur owner divisions, assuming no compensation for riding, just for prize money. If she is getting compensated by Gucci, she would be riding in the 'open' division of whatever height, against professionals wha make their living on prize money, training fees, and profits on horses.

In every equestrian career, there are years that are great successes, and years that are not. Sometimes I consider it a great success, for example, to get a horse to jump the open water or the bank when they are afraid, regardless of whether we finish in the money. That comes later. ie, success is progress, not necessarily winning that day. To me, it's always a matter of did you do your best on that given day, not did you come home with a ribbon of a particular color.
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Well said - I think, whether people commenting her are experienced equestrians, or not, all recognize that horses have minds of their own, and like people, can experience fear, have a bad day, etc - you are correct in the description of what may constitute "success" - not always about winning and/or coming in 1st.
 
Horseygal said:
I wonder how Trepstep's equestrian efforts/record compares to Charlotte's, since she said she also rides - not sure what circuit, but perhaps she's good enough to compare their skills to know what constitutes "failure" and "playing around" in the equestrian world.
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Well, I don't consider myself a top rider by any means!! I'm just an amateur. But I've been riding for 20 years now, usually among pros: racetrack, a bit of eventing and just arrived to the jumping world 3 years ago. This autumn I'm riding mostly CSNs, always near Paris, at around 1'40.

I don't think that anyone is a failure because she's not in the top level. Maybe your expectations are just to enjoy yourself, or get a horse who doesn't like to jump over a small fence.
I think that Charlotte career doesn't go well not because she isn't winning a CSI****, but because her results don't match her ambitions.
She's got top horses, top trainer, a lot of money, enters the bigger circuits...
And, that's the clue, her horses are doing much worst than a year ago.
When you buy a horse who runs succesfully 1'45, and a year after that same horse is getting eliminated at 1'30... you're ruining it.

I don't think that you fail at something because you don't get to the top. If that were the case most of us would be failures. I think that you fail when you set a target, an objective for yourself and you don't reach it by a long stretch

A person could be succesful running a 0'80 low amateur course, and another one be a failure while getting a prize at 1'30.
 
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I've noticed that the top 60 riders in the GCT finish all over the place. They may come in first one day and last the next. No one seems to dominate like in golf or tennis. For Charlotte to finish in the top 5 most of the time, it would mean she would probably be competing at too easy a level for her. At this stage she is pushing herself and trying to master new skills. How she places is not the top priority. I've also noticed that some of the lower pro riders ride at the lower star levels, especially 2 star, to pay for their expenses.
 
You can clearly see Charlotte is enjoying is herself, but it has been said a lot that in order to become a good competitor, you have to start at the bottom. Horse riding is still about understanding your horse and getting to know him/her more. If you want to go pro, make sacrifices, go into training abroad and basically leave your social life behind. Not that I mind she's not doing just that, because I'll miss seeing daily pics of her, but going pro means sacrifice.

Though I believe she has the heart in the right place. Very genuine in her intentions to promote the sport but I really really wish she'd take on another trainer, ride lower and come back in a year.
 
FanofMonaco said:
Technically I think Charlotte is a professional because Gucci is paying her riding expenses. To date though she is riding at an amateur level. In the US she would be considered in the minor leagues or semi-pro.
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Just consider it like this. Edwina Alexander is a pro. She needed an "amateur" for the Pro-Am Cup. She chose Charlotte. She could not have had Charlotte on her team if Charlotte was a pro as well. That's why it is the "Pro-Am" Cup. :lol:
And Edwina is definitely the Pro in the equation. 'Nuff Said.
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
Just consider it like this. Edwina Alexander is a pro. She needed an "amateur" for the Pro-Am Cup. She chose Charlotte. She could not have had Charlotte on her team if Charlotte was a pro as well. That's why it is the "Pro-Am" Cup. :lol:
And Edwina is definitely the Pro in the equation. 'Nuff Said.
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Well said CasiraghiTrio:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Charlotte cannot be considered a pro just because she gets paid off
 
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trepstrep said:
Well, I don't consider myself a top rider by any means!! I'm just an amateur. But I've been riding for 20 years now, usually among pros: racetrack, a bit of eventing and just arrived to the jumping world 3 years ago. This autumn I'm riding mostly CSNs, always near Paris, at around 1'40.

I don't think that anyone is a failure because she's not in the top level. Maybe your expectations are just to enjoy yourself, or get a horse who doesn't like to jump over a small fence.
I think that Charlotte career doesn't go well not because she isn't winning a CSI****, but because her results don't match her ambitions.
She's got top horses, top trainer, a lot of money, enters the bigger circuits...
And, that's the clue, her horses are doing much worst than a year ago.
When you buy a horse who runs succesfully 1'45, and a year after that same horse is getting eliminated at 1'30... you're ruining it.

I don't think that you fail at something because you don't get to the top. If that were the case most of us would be failures. I think that you fail when you set a target, an objective for yourself and you don't reach it by a long stretch

A person could be succesful running a 0'80 low amateur course, and another one be a failure while getting a prize at 1'30.
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Just as a frame of reference, here in the USA, low junior amateur would be begining about 1.25. Did Charlotte ever comment on wanting to ride in the GP division?
 
The Gucci Masters interviewer asked her if she would like to ride in the big events for Monaco. She answered something like- Of course. That would be fantastic. But I have alot of work to do to get there. I think she would like to see how far she can go. I think she just started a little GP this fall at 1* and 2*, Brussels, Lyon and Paris. Unfortunately she has been eliminated each time so far. Tintero is showing up with Charlotte riding on the FEI site now. She isn't showing up as a rider because she hasn't earned any points yet.
 
Charlotte was eliminated on Tintero and came in 29/54 on Troy today. Can't tell at what level. There is a r4/m2 but don't know what that means. Any swiss riders out there?
 
I'm taking a stab in the dark. Maybe this R3 M1 is 1m30, or 1.30m, M being Meter, and R being something to do with the decimal with the 0 dropped, because 1.30 and 1.3 is the same thing.
 
Maybe it's 1.40m, 2* for r4/m2. It looks like Charlotte competed twice today. In the r3/m1 as well- 1* at 1.30? Tintero again was eliminated but Troy finished 55/68 with 11 faults. She must be spending more time with Troy lately because all of a sudden Tintero is getting the eliminations.
 
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maybe Tintero doesn't like that fence height. maybe it makes him nervous.
 
Finally some time to write here!
I wanted to scan the elle interview but I am obviosly late. I just bought a "Point de Vue" with a longuish interview with Thierry Rozier talking about Charlotte, I don't think I'll have time to do it today, but I can scan it and post it tomorrow if you like.

Charlotte's interview in Elle didn't really surprise me. For some reason she's always stricken me as a perfectionist and a very disciplined person, and from what we read there, and everything Thierry says it seems it is true.
It's nice to see that she is articulate, and intelligent and passionate. Although her good grades and her interest in philosophy kind of pointed towards it.

It's funny how she is so insistent on the fact that she is a hard worker, a serious student and has never taken a year off or too many holydays (also how she hides the truth a little bit when she says that it was important for her to finish her studies since in fact she never finished them :)

But the best part for me is when she talks about how horses make her feel and why they are so important for her. It sounds so truth. And it is exactly the same way I feel when she says, I'll try to translate that
"it pulls you closer to the world of the senses, of instinct, of spontaneity. It the force of the living. Sometimes I have a tendency towards thinking too much, and the horses teach me to live, to be anchored in reality"

And also:
"with the horses, everything is authentic. You can't lie, you can't cheat or even hide your emotions: it brings you closer too a certain kind of truth"

And now, after all the good things I found in her interview am I allowed to say what I didn't like?
This bit:
"today I feel more mature, more confortable, more competitive, and I feel like competing with the world élite"

That's where the spoiled girl hiding under the cultivated intelligent young woman shows herself. You can't compete with the world élite just because you feel like it. And the bad results she's getting with wonderful horses should have taught her that.

Also, after reading Thierry's interview I like him less than ever. Apparently Charlotte called him some 3 years ago to tell him that he wanted to come back to the horse world and work seriously he was the one who decided to enter the "very exclusive competitions" instead of working seriously and slowly at home. And he is the one telling her that she could go to the Olympics!
Charlotte should know better than that but he is the professional and the person she trusts. He should be a real professional and not just the publicity seaker that he seems to be.
 
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I have disliked Thierry Rozier for a long time now. He is so fake. There is just nothing genuine about the way he comes across. He is all show. I think that he tells Charlotte what she wants to hear.

I think someone like Nelson PEssoa, or Jan Tops, or Edwina would be a better trainer for Charlotte.

Jean-Maurice Bonneau might be good too, but the problem with him is that he is a good friend of Thierry, so he might be cut from the same phony cloth. But then Jean is also trainer of Athina and Doda, so that's a plus in his favor. I don't know about Athina, but I doubt Doda would put up with a faker or a publicity seeker.
 
trepstrep said:
And now, after all the good things I found in her interview am I allowed to say what I didn't like?
This bit:
"today I feel more mature, more confortable, more competitive, and I feel that I want to compete with the world élite"

That's where the spoiled girl hiding under the cultivated intelligent young woman shows herself. You can't compete with the world élite just because you feel like it. And the bad results she's getting with wonderful horses should have taught her that.

Also, after reading Thierry's interview I like him less than ever. Apparently Charlotte called him some 3 years ago to tell him that he wanted to come back to the horse world and work seriously he was the one who decided to enter the "very exclusive competitions" instead of working seriously and slowly at home. And he is the one telling her that she could go to the Olympics!
Charlotte should know better than that but he is the professional and the person she trusts. He should be a real professional and not just the publicity seaker that he seems to be.
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I agree w/your points on Thierry's Olympic ambitions - he's using a high-profile young woman (because, she can ride for years!!) to further his own ambitions....possibly knowing that she may never reach that goal (certainly not under his instruction). Working with Charlotte gets HIM a lot of attention....and money - not in Charlotte's best interest(s), if she's truly serious about pursuing an equestrian career, in ernest (like Princess Zara Phillips).
 
The saddest thing is that she seems to have a genuine sincere passion for horseriding. And he could kill it.
(also I just realized that my transaltion of what charlotte says about the world élite didn't have the same meaning that it has in french. I just edited it because I think "I feel like competing among the world élite" is more exact)

A little bit off topic: I found this pic from the style and competition show Charlotte organized. Michel Robert and his team mate rode with an outrageous disguise and a couple of jack russells on their arms:
Gucci Masters : la victoires des blondes en pantalons de cuir ! : Le Quotidien Des Sports Equestres

One more thing about Thierry: it's not just the higher or lower level of the competitions Charlotte takes part in. I don't understand the need of all that travelling. Specially because it is not as if there was a lack of 1'20-1'30 competitions aroung Paris and Fontainebleau. It's not good for Charlotte who travels enough already between Paris, London and Monaco. And it's not good for the horses who are forced to spend so many hours in a van when they could be relaxing at home or training.

And now, the big, big mistery: when Charlotte was a junior rider with the team Marionnaud, Thierry was already her trainer and his barn usually competed near Fontainebleau. Now, all of a sudden they are travelling all around europe every weekend. What does he do with his other pupils? Because at the GCT he seems to be training a blond girls who often appears in pics with charlotte, but if you have a look at most of the start lists, Charlotte is often the only one who travels so much? When does Thierry take care of his other pupils? And where are they?
 
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trepstrep said:
(also how she hides the truth a little bit when she says that it was important for her to finish her studies since in fact she never finished them :)
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Do you know if she finished? were you her teacher?:ohmy:
 
rerehh said:
Do you know if she finished? were you her teacher?:ohmy:
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No, but I can read.
She says that after her hypokhâgne and her khâgne she moved to london and started working at a journal and afterwards she trained at a publishing house.
Thierry says the same thing in his interview.
So, OBVIOUSLY she never got a maîtrisse and she did not finish her studies.
Also, Thierry says that she called him 3 years ago because she was done with her studies and wanted to take back horseriding. There is no way on earth that she could have finished her studies 3 years ago, because at the very most she could have had a bac + 3.
Without a bac+4 you don't have real university studies.
 
Trep, the "blond girl" might be his girlfriend (or wife?) Marie Dive, the Belgian rider.

Also, I strongly believe Charlotte did complete her studies. At least as far as the License of Philosophy. I don't know for sure, of course, but I believe it.

Thierry sucks. No doubt about it. Nuff said about him. Back to Charlotte, plz! :lol:
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
Also, I strongly believe Charlotte did complete her studies. At least as far as the License of Philosophy. I don't know for sure, of course, but I believe it.
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Maybe she got her License. It is very possible. She didn't move to london inmediately after her ENS exam. But a License is a bac + 3. That's not considered complete studies in the french system. The ""real" degree in philosophy or linguistics takes 4 years and she certainly didn't study for that long.
Also, in her interview she kind of avoids the subject. She says she's completed her studies but all she talks about is her two years of prépa and her ENS exam (and she hides the fact that she failed).
I kind of understand her, thought. For someone so perfectionist and hard worker it must be a harsh memory.
 
I looked at the Sorbonne site and you get a degree in philosophy in 3 years. The next degree after that is a masters degree.

Pauline is preparing the same way that Charlotte is. Pauline competed in the European Championships and the Junior Olympics this summer. PA wants them competing under Monaco's flag so they have to enter international events. When Charlotte was a teenager she competed under the French flag. They both seem to be shooting for London. Being on the Monaco team is alot simpler than most countries. They don't have to make the team; they are the team. Each country is allowed to send 1 person in each sport. The question is are they good enough to meet the minimum qualifications. It would be great publicity for Monaco. No one expects them to be contenders. They just want to participate. That is true for the majority of countries. Charlotte also said in one of the recent interviews that she had responsibilities to Gucci. I am sure that would include riding alot in highly visable competitions.
 
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FanofMonaco said:
I looked at the Sorbonne site and you get a degree in philosophy in 3 years. The next degree after that is a masters degree.
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Ok, I'll try to explain this, because it can lead to mistake those from outside europe.
ALL the European universities have just changed their study plans because of a higher law calle Bologna. Everybody hates it, it's absurd and no good for the students but...

Prior Bologna, every european country had his own system. And a "master" was a post-degree, a specialised course you followed when you were already a graduate.
In the french system, most univerity studies lasted 4 years. After 2 years you were granted a DEUG, after one more year a License, and after the 4rth year a maîtrisse. Now, the DEUG and the "license" were little more than symbolic titles, worth for nothing, the "real" one was maîtrise.

Now, with Bologna, the UE has decided that the name for the degree you get after the regular 4 year university undergraduate studies, has to be called "master". I still call it maîtrise because I went to university prior bologna and because master is just english for maîtrise and because I don't understand why we have to use an english name for something we already had in french.
Most people are opossed to that master stupidity because it leads to a lot of mistakes. I, for example, have a bac+5+1 year specialised master. But now it will become difficult to tell appart from a bac+4 (now called a master).

So to make in clear and simple because depending on your studies it is more complicated than that: a "master" with the new Bologna laws is the same thing that the old maîtrise (bac+4). After 3 years you are granted a "symbolic" degree, called a "license" that is worth nothing. It's not a real degree but a name that last from centuries ago and means nothing. Nobody considers you've finished your studies.With a bac+3 you are not considered an university graduate, and you can't start a Ph.D, or doctorate or whatever.

So, don't be mislead but that fancy "master" thing. It's just something confusing the UE has concocted. An university degree requires 4 years.

FanofMonaco said:
They don't have to make the team; they are the team. Each country is allowed to send 1 person in each sport.
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I really don't know how the qualifications for the Olympics work but I kow for certain that you don't have competitors from every country on every sport. There is a number of participants allowed and you need to clasify in order to enter a competition. Also, I know that there is some kind of quota per continent. If charlotte were african, maybe she could stand a chance... but being european. frankly I don't see it happening at all. Also, London is only in 2 years and charlotte is faaaar away from top level. Maybe in 10 year she could get there. But not for a long long time.


FanofMonaco said:
Charlotte also said in one of the recent interviews that she had responsibilities to Gucci. I am sure that would include riding alot in highly visable competitions.
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I'm pretty sure you're right. I don't know about these geneve and brussels events she lately took part in, but the Gucci master is for certain in her contract and probably the GCT since it is the most glamourous horse competition.
I am sure that Gucci wants her to ride those competions aswell as some other CSI.
BUT, Charlotte started on the GCT way before her deal with Gucci. It was Thierry decission. He explains how he asked Jan Tops for an invitation for Charlotte and how, since she didn't have a horse, he lend her GIJOE for her first season.
 
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tintero and the other horse are charlotte horse or they are thierry horse ?
 
trepstrep, what in France is called "License" in Spain is "Diplomatura" (3 years) and both are consider an university degree. Of course, a "Licenciatura" (studies of 4, 5 or 6 years) is in higher regard than Diplomatura, and if study a "Master" much better. But License/Diplomatura also are university degree. I'm "diplomada" and I've my university degree.
 
I think Tintero is owned by Charlotte, Troy by Jan Tops and GI Joe by the estate of a Swiss inventor that lived in Monaco. Apparently leasing a horse for a year or so is very common.

As for the Olympics, some American athletes move to smaller countries (they have to change citizenship) just so they go to the Olympics. They are not good enough to make the US team but no one is entering that sport in the country they go to. I noticed this fall that Edouard de Rothschild starting competing under the Israeli flag. I think he did so to e able to go to the London Olympics.
 
rerehh said:
trepstrep, what in France is called "License" in Spain is "Diplomatura" (3 years) and both are consider an university degree. Of course, a "Licenciatura" (studies of 4, 5 or 6 years) is in higher regard than Diplomatura, and if study a "Master" much better. But License/Diplomatura also are university degree. I'm "diplomada" and I've my university degree.
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No, it's not the same. I know because I am a spaniard myself and have studies both in Spain (Complutense) and France (Paris IV).
Asuming we are speaking always of pre-Bologna studies:

In Spain you could have either a diplomatura or a licenciature, depending of what you were studying.
Diplomaturas are for shorter studies, like "nursing", or "physiotherapy" or "social work" or "magisterio" (I can't find the english translation for this word)
Licenciaturas are for studies or 5 years or more (I know in some universities you get a degree after 4 years, but in the Complutense it was 5 years minimun): you can get a Licenciatura in History, Journalism, Language, Biology, Chemistry, Economics, Law, Philosophy...

The french system is different (I'm always speaking pre-Bologna).
Say you study one of the long careers: Language, or History, or Economics, or Chemistry. After two years you get a DEUG (that it's worth nothing except if you want points for an exam to become a civil servant or you want to transfer to other studies), after 3 years you get a License (again, it is worth nothing, you don't have the degree you are studying for ). Only after 4 years you get your Maîtrise and you are graduated on biology, philosophy, economics or whatever, and if you want you can pursue post-graduate studies, start a doctorate, etc

So, french maîtrise= spanish licenciatura
But french license is NOT spanish diplomatura.

To make it simple, imagine that you register in a spanish university to study Law, and the studies last 4 years. Well, now imagine that the university has a name for the people who have completed the first 2 years (deug) and another for the people who have done 3 years (license) but you dont' graduate until you complete the 4 years. And you can't apply to be a judge or work as an attorney or anything.

FanofMonaco said:
I think Tintero is owned by Charlotte, Troy by Jan Tops and GI Joe by the estate of a Swiss inventor that lived in Monaco. Apparently leasing a horse for a year or so is very common.

As for the Olympics, some American athletes move to smaller countries (they have to change citizenship) just so they go to the Olympics. They are not good enough to make the US team but no one is entering that sport in the country they go to. I noticed this fall that Edouard de Rothschild starting competing under the Israeli flag. I think he did so to e able to go to the London Olympics.
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Thierry says in his interview that GI Joe belongs to Jan Tops and he lent it to Charlotte. He also kind of says that Troy and Tintero are hers (but he is not very clear about that). Anyway, the name of the owner often changes in the starlist so it seems unclear even for them.

You're right about athletes from certain countries changing citizenship in order to compete for other countries. But this athletes are usually of very high level, just not high enough to compete with their own country because the level there is too good.
Also, I think you have a bigger chance to compete if you do it under israeli colours than under Monaco flag, because with israeli citizenship you only have to compete against other asian riders, and well, horseriding is not that big there. Monaco has to compete against the big european countries for a place at the Olympics.
 
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