Charlotte Casiraghi's equestrian career


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trepstrep said:
Also, I am under the impression that by whom she's being advised is by a very very clever bon vivant, who liked to parade around the world with the jet-set, and fill up his pockets with Gucci money, but doesn't care or doesn't know how properly advise her.
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By whom did you say it? Thierry Rozier?

Charlotte should be careful, she could have a accident.
 
And what was meant to be just happened. Charlotte riding among professionals was too preposterous an idea to turn off any other way: she was the only rider who was eliminated in a very easy course (19 riders finished with 0 faults).
Saint Tintero has his limits and he obviously told her to f.uck off.
If she doesn't care about looking like a fool in front of a crowd she should at least care about her horse. Keep doing this kind of foolish things and you'll manage to completely ruin him, girl!
 
I agree that Charlotte needs different instruction in order to grow - I think Theirrey has taken her as far as he can, and I don't think he's released her true talents and strengths - plus, partnering her with horses that are above her level of skill is no way to help train her to that level - in the end, it is worse for the horse to try to step back to the level of an inexperienced rider, rather than the other way around; a strong trainer knows this.....
 
It's a pretty wide course with a lot of time to turn and control speed. Depending on what height people/horse is willing to go, a proper and experienced rider should be able to finish the course with minimal damage.

I still stand by my opinion that she should go into training for a year with someone else, someone with great international experience. Give them the right amount of money and they'll train anyone who is willing.
 
I am not surprised that she was eliminated. It was her first attempt at this height. I still think it was a good idea to attempt it. She is not overdoing it. She has jumped at 140 cm a few times before and done okay. Charlotte is a risktaker and not afraid to look foolish. Both of these things are necessary to be sucessful and are part of the learning process.
 
Horseygal said:
I agree that Charlotte needs different instruction in order to grow - I think Theirrey has taken her as far as he can, and I don't think he's released her true talents and strengths - plus, partnering her with horses that are above her level of skill is no way to help train her to that level - in the end, it is worse for the horse to try to step back to the level of an inexperienced rider, rather than the other way around; a strong trainer knows this.....
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In my opinion, an experienced (and often are those the better than average) horse is pretty vital to become better. I always get mad when people buy their first horse who is still completely green. :bang:

But if the rider isn't becoming better, then that's a problem her trainers should look into and put her on a horse she will have to ride the exact proper manner to get him over the fences. My horse is like that, if you don't give him the right instructions, he won't do it.

Sure, you can keep on riding horses that think for the rider, but you won't get better from it either.
 
I agree it may be time to look for a different trainer.
 
Yes - I think we're all in agreement here - the HORSE should not be expected to figure it out....that is the trainer's role - and, if he's not seeing improvement in her ability to master courses, he needs to find a horse that is matched to Charlotte's skill level, not keep plunking her on horses HE wants to show! It might be a hit to her ego (IF she's thinking about pursuing this further, professionally), but if she's serious, she needs to swallow her pride, find a new trainer, and start all over - train, SERIOUSLY, for a year (as Empress Merel suggests), THEN re-enter the show circuit. She's plateaued with Theirrey, and I think he's more interested in showcasing his horses, than getting Charlotte to where she needs to be so BOTH horse and rider succeed.
 
I'm not that sure that Charlotte and Tintero are missmatched (as she certainly was with Troy). Tintero looks like a very safe horse, with a wonderful head. He could be ideal to slowly make the jump from 1'20 to 1'30.
Troy looked like the kind of horse who doesn't allow mistakes. But Tintero has been saving Charlotte' ass for a year. At the start of the CGT season he even took Charlotte to the top ten in 1.25 courses. And she didn't ride well. It was the horse's merit. To me, it looked like a horse with a very strong mental.
But even the horse with the strongest head gets tired of a rider's mistakes. He's jumped from too far away, from too close, with the amazon clutching at his mouth. And he's fed up. He doesn't trust her anymore.

And the reason is, I'm afraid, that even mediocre riders can jump 1'20 if they have a good horse. But if you want to go higher, the horse is not enough anymore. You have to do things properly.

Charlotte should have stayed at 1'20-1'25 the whole year. She wasn't proficient enough to move on. Her good results were obtained thanks to her horse no thanks to her habilities. She should have been modest, and try to learn. And if at the end of the season she managed to finish good 1.20 courses, then it would had been the moment to think about trying 1.30 next year. For several years.

But apparently that's not enough for madame. It takes an unbelivebly conceited personality to think that you can go from barely managing a 1.20 in april to jump among world class professionals in october. What's she's done is incredibly stupid. But apparently she was anxious to rub shoulders with the elite.
For god's sake! Last week she kissed the floor in a lower level event. She's been eliminated I don't know how many times in the past few weeks. And today she runs a 1.45 with professionals!

Of course, she can do whatever she wants. She's an adult ans she is free to crash her skull against a pole as many times as she wishes. But I am a horsewoman and I hate to see people wreck good horses the way Charlotte is doing with Tintero. Too many good horses suffer because of spoiled silly brats. She makes me angry!


FanofMonaco said:
I am not surprised that she was eliminated. It was her first attempt at this height. I still think it was a good idea to attempt it. She is not overdoing it. She has jumped at 140 cm a few times before and done okay. Charlotte is a risktaker and not afraid to look foolish. Both of these things are necessary to be sucessful and are part of the learning process.
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Yes, she is. She is overdoing it a lot. She's never done well at 140. She's never even done well at 130. Tintero has been saving her ass for a long time and she seems to have finally broken him. A risktaker is one thing, a person who puts herself and her horse in harm's way because she thinks she is better than she really is, is a stupid moron.
And there is no way someone can learn anything by taking part in competitions so out of her league. She would be learing if she had kept doing 1.25 1.30 top. Now, she's putting herself stupidly at risk, ruining a good horse and looking like a snobbish fool.

Oh! And don't get me started on Thierrry! The rascal! No way he didn't know what was going to happen when I could guess it from my sofa! He's incredibly unprofessional.
Frankly I don't know if Charlotte is extraordinarely naive or extraordinarely conceited. She doesn't seem very clever anyway. But Thierry is an incredible crook!
 
Calm yourself, trepstrep!! Probably you're right, but there's no need to insult. Don't get like that. :flowers:
 
Well, Tintero is a brilliant horse but he is quite young, and 1m45 is high for him and Charlotte, so even if it was an easy course in terms of the layout, if the jumps were too high for them, maybe Tintero's confidence was low. And maybe even Charlotte's confidence was low.

BTW, someone asked not long ago about where Charlotte trains. I'm sure she sometimes still trains in Bois le Roi, but yes, there is a stables near Monaco where she also trains. When she did that Vogue interview, she was training at the one near Monaco. I think she mostly trains there and not so much at Bois le Roi. Especially in this time of year. The weather has to be more favorable in the south.

I wish she would ditch Thierry Rozier. I'm with trep on Thierry. My warm and fuzzy about him vanished awhile ago. He kisses her tooshie and that's not good for her as a rider. She won't improve with someone like him. She will only improve with a trainer who gives her the hard truth and challenges her. But it must be hard for her to find another trainer at this point. Because she would only want to have the best, and who among the best would want to spend their time training her? I mean, the best, like Edwina, aren't ready to scale back on their own careers. And someone like Jan Tops doesn't have the time to train Charlotte. I'm sure he'd like to,but he can't have the time. He has too much to do.

I'm happy for Athina and Doda. It seems they had a great day! Doda won the PRix Region Rhone Alpes (with his star stallion, Norson) and Athina had fifth place in the Prix Sommer with her brilliant Ricardo.
 
The things Jos Lansink could do with her in a year.... Seriously, train with him and your improvement is massive.
 
Charlotte must agree with you Trepstep. She is not signed up to ride tomorrow.
 
Maybe she fall off and doesn't feel well?
You can get eliminated by 2 reasons: if your horse refuses to jump twice or if you fall. We don't know what happened in her case.

Valentine trains with Manel Malta da Costa. Maybe he could do the trick.
 
Does anyone think she might do the Grand PRix Amateur Gold Tour on Sunday?
 
It might be just for French people and the ones she were in were international. Not sure.
 
Maybe not. She was in Rome today (see current events) but there is Sunday and Monday..... I hope she goes back. Poor Tintero. He had a bum week. :sad:
 
Isn't Charlotte's/Casiraghi relationship w/Thierrey and his farm a familial/political one? Maybe she'd love different instruction, but because of lengthy family ties, it wouldn't be politically smart to move on - plus, how would that be explained in their world?! Us equestrians and enthusiasts know he doesn't have her best interest in mind, and his instruction is weak/careless (IMHO), but to insiders, they would know the politics behind any decision to switch instruction - for good, and it would probably look bad for him to lose such a high-profile charge.....who knows.....
 
Changes in trainers happen all the time, especially if the results of the previous trainer have been less than stellar. Sometimes it's just not a match...either horse or trainer wise, no offense no foul. Though I myself have had the same group of trainers (Leslie Burr-Howard, Molly Ashe-Cawley) for 20 years. But it is,for me, a great fit and I consider them to be my dearest friends. No matter what the issues are with my present horses at the time, I know that Molly and Leslie will sort it out in a kind and sympathetic way (leaving aside the 2 Olympic medals, a World Championship and 2 American Invitational wins).
 
A possible replacement for trainer of Charlotte? What about Jean-Maurice Bonneau? He is already the head trainer for Athina & Doda, and he's a good friend of Thierry.
 
I think there is a competition at Bois le Roi next week. Wonder if Charlotte will be there? Or if she will go to New York with PC to the PG Foundation dinner? Also saw that Virginie Couperie was at the Rome Film Festival with her. Isn't she the horse breeder?
 
trepstrep said:
Oh, and I found this: curie Atarson
This is the stable where Charlotte trains.
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That place seems like about halfway between Monaco and Cannes.

I figured she had a place to train that's near Monaco, because that Vogue article mentioned that she was doing her regular training session at a stables near Monaco, at the time of the interview. I kind of had this idea of her training at some place like San Remo.
 
The Vogue article said she was at Roquefort les Pins. It looked like the same lady that owned the stables at Juan les Pins. Maybe the owner moved her stables to a lower cost area. She specializes in dressage. Charlotte seems to use several stables on the Riviera.
 
scooter said:
Changes in trainers happen all the time, especially if the results of the previous trainer have been less than stellar. Sometimes it's just not a match...either horse or trainer wise, no offense no foul. Though I myself have had the same group of trainers (Leslie Burr-Howard, Molly Ashe-Cawley) for 20 years. But it is,for me, a great fit and I consider them to be my dearest friends. No matter what the issues are with my present horses at the time, I know that Molly and Leslie will sort it out in a kind and sympathetic way (leaving aside the 2 Olympic medals, a World Championship and 2 American Invitational wins).
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:eek: WOW - you are getting the best instruction - lucky you!! :D I wonder if Charlotte can have outside, specialized, training at another farm (much like we could here thru someone like George Morris, etc) - if that is possible, or if someone at her level is contractually obligated to a certain barn and trainer.
 
scooter said:
Changes in trainers happen all the time, especially if the results of the previous trainer have been less than stellar. Sometimes it's just not a match...either horse or trainer wise, no offense no foul. Though I myself have had the same group of trainers (Leslie Burr-Howard, Molly Ashe-Cawley) for 20 years. But it is,for me, a great fit and I consider them to be my dearest friends. No matter what the issues are with my present horses at the time, I know that Molly and Leslie will sort it out in a kind and sympathetic way (leaving aside the 2 Olympic medals, a World Championship and 2 American Invitational wins).
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Can you train with somebody who is a friend of yours? I always find that so uncomfortable.
 
Well, they were not 'friends' (but my heros) when I first came to them 20 years ago but now they are. But if Molly were to tell me to jump down off the roof of the indoor arena, I would take a breath and kick.

I feel sure that Charlotte can have whomever she would like to help her, regardless of nationality. About 15 years ago Martha Louise rode with us for the winter season in Florida. She was lovely and unpretentious....not an entourage in sight.
 
American riders: Do one of the US Olympic training centers offer specialized training for horsejumping?If so, that would be a great place for Charlotte to train for a few months. If they let non citizens train there. Surely they would let one of the Kelly clan go there.
 
Of course. Our center is www.burrassociates.com . As I said earlier, we had Princess Martha Louise a few years back. At a center like ours, she would have the ability to train with Olympic gold medalist and world champions. We also have exact replicas of some of the most notoriously difficult jumps like the Hampton Classic Bank, the Spruce Meadows Devil's Dyke, etc so that when you get to the horse show, you have already practiced over those jumps at home and they are no longer 'trappy'.
 
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