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  #241  
Old 05-02-2010, 08:50 PM
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Does she want to go to the olympics?
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  #242  
Old 05-02-2010, 09:50 PM
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She might want to go or not. If she does have that desire she has a long way ahead of her.
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  #243  
Old 05-03-2010, 06:54 AM
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So many things again!

Empress Merel, a dressage girl? Then we'd better stop arguing because we'll never agree about anything. I cringe when I see a dressage rider trying to jump over a 0'80 oxer with fear in his eyes and an over controlled horse. Jumper vs. dresseur is a neverending story!

Cariraghitrio you should defintely approach horses. They are shy and sensitve but also very curious. As long as you act relaxed and don't make big movements or talk in a very loud voice, they'll want to know you and they'll approach you by themselves.

Debrann, we shouldn't demonize Charlotte either. I'm sure that she doesn't stress her horse willingly. Sadly, the conexion between horse and rider isn't always easy. Every rider, even the more delicate ones, has had the experience of wanting to do the right thing, and communicate properly in a soft way with the horse, and all of us have suffered once and again the frustrating experience of not managing to do it. You want to, but you don't always manage to do it.

Oh, and I agree when casiraghitrio when she says that Charlotte is kind of a poser. When asked in the monaco interview if she wanted to go "professional" she could have been honest and say something like "it would be wonderful but I am still very far away from that level. I try to do my best everyday and only the future will tell, but being a professional is very difficult and requires a lot of talent and personal investement" That's what a sensible down to earth girl would have answered.
Instead Charlotte answered with an irrealistic "we'll see how the season goes, but why not?" as if she was thinking of becoming a pro the following season!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Gosh, I really can't believe the discussion going on whetever she should be travelling or even doing jumping if her results are low.

Let the girl be. It's her life, her money and her decision. She is an adult and perfectly capable of making her own choices.
Nobody is forbidding her to keep doing what she does. None of us has that power. But when you make public laughable statements you can't be surprised if people laugh at you, can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Not everyone rides to win. Some just ride because it's fun. Some ride just to ride.
I couldn't agree more. It's stupid to think that everyone rides to win. It wouldn't be laughable at all if she was riding just for the fun of it. But the girl was talking on a tv interview about becoming a professional this year. So, she obviously doesn't just ride for the pleasure of it.



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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Because she has the money. Let's face it, girls. If you had all the money and you could choose between an amazing horse with an incredible background of family or a nice horse, but not very special? I'd know it.
And that's exactly the attitude a conceited and spoiled person would have. I don't buy the horse that best suit my habilities, I buy the most expensive one, because I'm worth it, and I can pay for it. Go along, do it. But instead of having decent results at low level competitions you'll keep on been laughed at by the circuit.
Precisely because she can pay, she can have the horse that's most suited for her. She could have a calm experienced 15 year old that would teach her. But apparently she is too good to be taught?
Valentine has a lot of money too. She could ride the same horse that Charlotte is riding and go to the same competions and keep on riding low 1'10 shows forever. Instead, she choose a wise path, and she is now riding really high level 1'50m. at CSI**** and getting good results.
Do you know Marta Ortega? She is the daughter of the Zara's group owner and way richer than Charlotte since her father is among the 10 biggest fortunes in the planet. Well, she rides the Valencia Global Tour show, because it happens in Spain, near her home, yet, although she is richer than Charlotte and has a better level than her as a rider (she jumps 1'40-1'50) she won't be following it around the world because it doesn't make any sense.

You seem to think that being rich gives you excuse enough to do whatever you want. Well, it certainly gives you the economical means to do it. But it can't prevent you for looking silly in the eyes of the public.
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  #244  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:11 AM
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Sorry, for the double post, but I think that CasiraghiTrio made a really interesting point.

Charlotte is certainly accoustumed to do things at the top.

Take her academic career.
We know she got a Très Bien at her Bac, and nobodys gives you that for free. The exams are anonymous. This means she is intelligent.
Then she tries to go to the top of the academic world and enter de ENS. It was a logical step for someone with a Très Bien in the bac, but she was competing with people who had the same capacities than her and then she failed. It's wasn't such a fail. Entering the ENS is not easy and it's very common to fail the 1st exam and take the admission exam twice or even thrice. The funny thing is the moment she failed she apparently loose all interest in academics and she didn't even complete her standard 4 years university education. Did she think that she was "too good" to have a normal university degree and it had to be the ENS or nothing?

Take her journalistic career.
She could have take some kind of course or training before publishing. I've worked with someone with a much "bigger" name than casiraghi or grimaldi, who studied Sociology and latter decided to become a journalist. This girl had all the doors opened to her the same way Charlotte had just because of her family conexions. Yet, she decided to take the long way and go for a "journalism master" before starting to work, because she knew she should learn some things before starting to work. Charlotte, instead, took the quick easy road.

About horseriding.
Top trainers NEVER teach beginners. Most of them don't even teach intermediate level riders. Yet, Charlotte has always had top names as teachers. Why did they take her? Probably because they though it was worth making and exception because of the free publicity her name gave them.
If I was Caroline and my children wanted to ride poneys, I'd look for a very good teacher, of course. But I wouldn't be so absurd as to ask Waulters or Rozier to teach them. You can do it, of course, and they'll be happy to accept because they'll have their names printed in all kind of glossy magazines, but it is not the sensible logical thing to do.
Charlotte's been used to hang among the elite, as if she was one of them since childhood and she probably has trouble accepting her real place in the horse world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
I really don't see the problem you all are making. But hey, that's just me. We don't know her, stop acting like you do.
We are not "making" any problem. We are commenting on Charlotte absurd way of leading her career. When you make public silly choice and you even flaunt them on tv interviews you are exposed to public opinion.
I don't know Charlotte, and I have never seen her in my life. I don't act as if I knew her. I just talk about her public choices.
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  #245  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice the goddess View Post
Does she want to go to the olympics?
She has about the same chances to go to the Olympics as Homer Simpson.
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  #246  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:16 AM
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Who is Homer Simpson??A rider i guess
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  #247  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:24 AM
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Unlike a Zara Phillips who has devoted her life to equestrian sport, Charlotte seems to be more casual about it, and there is nothing wrong with that - yes, she competes in legitimate, high-profile arenas, but even from her interview (the one about Global Champions tour - with Prince Albert, etc), she talks about how she's ridden since she was young, but you don't get the sense that she's DRIVEN to ride, more that she has a healthy respect for the sport and enjoys it. While I respect Theirry (and other coaches), I'm sure he continues to coach her more out of loyalty to the family than an actual belief that he can get her to professional/Olympic level. I think it's great to see that she wants to ride and compete - it's a great character-building exercise, since horses have a mind and body all their own, and don't care how much money you have or that you're royalty - either you have the skill to control and guide the horse or you don't.....
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  #248  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:59 AM
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Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Most riders are amateurs who don't want to devote their lives to horseriding.
The absurdity of it all comes from Charlotte saying on tv that she was thinking "why no?" about becoming professional if last season had went well, or Thierry Rozier saying in an interview that Charlottes rides "very, very well" and has "the talent and the horses to go very high".

Of course in that same interview he said: "Le plaisir de mes élèves est ma priorité. A moi de tout mettre en œuvre pour qu’ils prennent du plaisir à 100%". That's maybe the clue. He has spoiled pupils who put their pleasure and whims before a sensible career and he allows it. Excuse me, but that's not the job of a professional trainer.
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  #249  
Old 05-03-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
You seem to think that being rich gives you excuse enough to do whatever you want. Well, it certainly gives you the economical means to do it. But it can't prevent you for looking silly in the eyes of the public.
You forgot something: being wealthy and having to report to no-one also gives you the privilege to not care about what the public think.

I agree with your points regarding the management of her equestrian career: she's over-reaching, under-achieving considering the quality of her mount and trainer and probably spoiled.
But I really, really doubt that as long as she enjoys the competition, she can be 'laughed' out of the circuit or guilted into riding a lesser horse.
When she stops, it will be out of boredom, not out of embarrassment.
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  #250  
Old 05-03-2010, 09:28 AM
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Like I said; I don't see the problem, I don't see the fuss. If she wants to ride far away, her choice. If she wants to buy expensive horses, her choice.

And Trepstep, I admit not being confident while jumping. But hey, would you if you had a really nasty fall? I was damn lucky I didn't end up in hospital, thank you very much. I choose not to jump over 1m because I am just not confident enough anymore.

Top trainers never teach beginners you say? Ask Anky, ask Edward. Ask any top rider about some of their students and they'll tell you otherwise. Where the money is.....

And if she wants to give professional a try, I will wish her all the best because horseriding is the best sport in the world. And if she chooses to enjoy it the way she wants to, I'll applaud her for atleast trying.
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  #251  
Old 05-03-2010, 01:49 PM
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I don't see the problem either, and I think this argument has run its course. We all have different opinions and it is fine to share them, but don't beat them into the ground. We will probably never know Charlotte or her reasons for doing the things she does, so I feel like we should move on. I'm not trying to offend anyone it is just my personal opinion, and you are all entitled to your own. I like this thread and I love to see pics of Charlotte competing, but I don't like all the arguments!
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  #252  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:18 PM
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I think some people here take the discussions too personally, or are too sensitive. No one, as far as I can tell, is attacking Charlotte.

Charlotte is not exempt from accountability. As trep rightly says, Charlotte puts herself in the public attention. We can discuss her public activities without being accused of "acting like" we "know" her. You guys need to calm down.

We're not arguing. Trep, I agree with everything you said in your last posts. I continue to enjoy reading your opinions. You are a thoughtful person. I respect that.
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  #253  
Old 05-03-2010, 04:00 PM
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Fan of Monaco

I can think of several good reasons why Charlotte would want to ride with the Global Champions Tour:
1) it provides good, free, international publicity for Monaco
2) it provides good, free, international publicity for the GCT. They don't have a Tiger Woods. She is regularly on the cover of magazines.
3) if she is thinking about trying to go pro, riding with the GCT would give her a feel for what it would be like and what kind of commitment would be involved
4) It's a no brainer. Riding with the GCT is like going to the Harvard school of show jumping. She got to observe first hand, for several months, the top 30 show jumpers in the world. And I'm sure she asked them plenty of questions.

As for the Olympics, I would tend to agree with you except for the fact that her uncle, great uncle, great grandfather and his cousin were all Olympians. Six gold and 1 bronze in rowing. Pretty impressive.

I think it's way too early to write Charlotte off. Most of the top riders are aged 30 to 60. The few in their 20's all seem to be over age 25. Charlotte is age 23.
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  #254  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:26 PM
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I think this is my first time to read negatively on Charlotte on this board, and I'm so surprised.
Reading about the Casiraghis, I've always had a feeling that their followers have a bit of fantasy about them, and cannot see anything not-great about them.
On her equestrian life, I've always doubted the seriousness of it, but all those experienced comments in depth have been very helpful to understand the horse world.
They'r very interesting indeed.
Now that I've given those insights, I'm becoming curious about how she's viewed within the circle..
I mean, the circle of more professional horse-riders who have equally prestigious backgroud.
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  #255  
Old 05-03-2010, 09:49 PM
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Does anyone know?

How many hours per day can a horse be trained?
How many day per week and hours per day do the pros train on horseback?
How many horses do the pros usually take on tour with them? eg. like the Global Champions Tour
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  #256  
Old 05-03-2010, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Does anyone know?

How many hours per day can a horse be trained?
How many day per week and hours per day do the pros train on horseback?
How many horses do the pros usually take on tour with them? eg. like the Global Champions Tour
Before I had kids, I trained 2 horses for shows for the barn where I rode (not my personal horses). I would train 2 hrs for one, 2 hrs for the other - TIRED by the end of the day. I'm an intermediate rider, and the horses were both exprienced, used to the show ring, so they needed more of a "reminder" than stressful training to get them used to jumps, the ring, other horses, etc. I'm sure, at the professional level, they train many more hours on different horses (if they're to ride more than one during the event). I'd be interested to hear from more experienced riders, too.
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  #257  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
I can think of several good reasons why Charlotte would want to ride with the Global Champions Tour:
1) it provides good, free, international publicity for Monaco
2) it provides good, free, international publicity for the GCT. They don't have a Tiger Woods. She is regularly on the cover of magazines.
3) if she is thinking about trying to go pro, riding with the GCT would give her a feel for what it would be like and what kind of commitment would be involved
4) It's a no brainer. Riding with the GCT is like going to the Harvard school of show jumping. She got to observe first hand, for several months, the top 30 show jumpers in the world. And I'm sure she asked them plenty of questions.

As for the Olympics, I would tend to agree with you except for the fact that her uncle, great uncle, great grandfather and his cousin were all Olympians. Six gold and 1 bronze in rowing. Pretty impressive.

I think it's way too early to write Charlotte off. Most of the top riders are aged 30 to 60. The few in their 20's all seem to be over age 25. Charlotte is age 23.
Good points, FanofMonaco. Yes, it's great publicity for Monaco. I always thought that's the main motivation for Charlotte to be involved with the GCT. Everyone benefits: GCT benefits from the added glamor of the association to Monaco; Monaco is part of the GCT map. No,I don't think Char is going to the Olympics, but like you said, one never knows. If she was on an Olympic course, I think we'd see it by now. She'd be thinking of that, talking about it. I mean, she doesn't know what she wants now. She admit it on that interview, with LA STAMPA last year, to promote ever manifesto. She said she has no definite plans. So I think she is leaving everything open. But if she was going to Olympics,she would be working actively toward it.

The thing is, a top rider like Doda de Miranda or Philippe Rozier, or Michel Robert, or Jessica Kuerten, or Edwina Alexander......... yes they are over 30 but they have been FULL TIME in jumping since they were kids. Charlotte has only ever been part time. She is just a hobby rider. That's all. Nothing wrong with it. But that's the fact.

Anyway, this week is the start of the GCT in Valencia!! With or without Char, I'm excited for it. I mean, I love to see Char there. I just have to agree with trep that it's kind of ridiculous for her to go around with the tour like a poser.

Speaking of......... Trep, you know I generally agree with you, but there is one thing I must correct you on. About Marta Ortega Perez.... Marta follows the tour for more than Valencia. Last year, she was in Monaco, in Cannes, in Valkenswaard, and Estoril. I don't know if she went to Rio, as Charlotte did, but I wouldn't be surprised. But Marta, like you pointed out, is on a higher level than Char. She is on the same par with Athina, actually. Marta's trainer is Michel Robert!!!! Can you imagine?
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  #258  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:15 AM
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Has she ever fallen off in competition?
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  #259  
Old 05-04-2010, 01:25 AM
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^Yes, a few time that I can remember. She fell in 2002 at least twice: one time she broke her leg and she was on a crutch for a time, then another time, there was a tooth problem. Both incidents were minor injuries. She fell from Dumba, who was a bay colored horse owned by the Marionnaud-Rozier partnership, and had to go to dentist in the next day (according to the press reports of the time, which was June 2002). Later in November, she fell (I think from the chestnut Folka, also a Marionnaud horse) and was seen on a crutch in the next days.
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  #260  
Old 05-04-2010, 05:36 AM
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Hi, CasiraghiTrio, are you sure about Marta? I'm sure you read it somewhere, but maybe the information you read was wrong?
As far as I know Michel Robert has ridden some of Marta's horses but he's not her trainer. She lives in Spain while he lives in France.
You're 75% right about the GCT though. She went to Portugal (Estoril in Portugal is even closer to her home than Valencia), but also to Monaco and Valkenswaard. I don't know why I had in mind that she'd only been to Valencia

The differences between her and Charlotte are huge, though, and as you pointed out she is closer to Athina than Charlotte.
First, as it's Athina's case, Marta's boyfriend is a top level rider, and accompanying him, specially in the summer when she doesn't have so much work, can be part of the reason.
Second, she is a much better rider than Charlotte, and even better than Athina. Marta gets good results at 1'45m. competitions, a cathegory Charlotte doesn't even ride. In Monaco she actually won one of the amateur shows. You can't say you are out of place when you win, can you?
Third, since her father has the money she buys the best horses she can find. But she puts the really good ones in the hands of Michel Robert or her boyfriend Sergio Álvarez Moya, and some of them, like Madame Pompadour, she doesn't even ride them in competition, probably knowing that they will be a waste in her hands.
Fourth, even if she is better, richer, and has better horses than Charlotte she usually competes in Spain, and only travels to the big events in special circunstances.

So, nothing against amateur rich riders. Fan of Monaco also made an interesting point when she said that Charlotte may be doing the tour for publicity reasons. I'm not critizising Charlotte AT ALL because of her being an amateur. Not many people want to devote their lives entirely to horses and practically live in barn as professional do.
Amateurism is good!!! Let's make that clear, for once and all. The "problem" with Charlotte's career is that she doesn't seem to know her place. She buys better horses that she can ride, she ignores the smaller competions where she could gain experience... and she keeps getting very low results in low competitions. I have no idea whether it's her fault or Rozier's of course. Maybe it's both.
Even between amateurs they are very talented riders who don't turn professional because they have different interests in life. And even as an amateur it can be very frustrating when you don't evolve and stay forever at lower levels. From what I've seen she doesn't look like a talented rider, even as an amateur, so she probably should go slower and ride different kind of horses.
Athina, Marta and Valentine are also amateurs. But they went slow, they rode the horses they had to ride, competed in the small shows they had to compete and now they are in a much higher league than Charlotte.

Oh, even if I am critical with her, I love to see Charlotte in the Tour, because that means, more pictures!
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