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  #201  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:24 PM
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I'm not sure 'hobby' would be the correct word...more like competitive athletic career. She trains with several horses every day. She travels to compete many weeks a year. Would you also call Zara Phillips' equestrian career a 'hobby'? It's really the same thing.
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  #202  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:12 AM
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No. It's not at all the same thing.
Zara Phillips competes at professional level and she is one of the best in the world.
She is the Eventing World Champion and and Olimpic Level rider (she wasn't in the olimpics because her horse was injured but she was chosen for the british team twice) and more important if she wasn't rich enough by herself she could make a living out of horseriding thanks to prices and sponsorships.

Charlotte is nothing like that. She is just an amateur and not very good. She could never compete in a professional competition because she is very far away from the level required and she doesn't earn a single euro from ther ecuestrian activities. In fact it costs her an awful lot of money.
The level she competes in is reserved for amateurs. Don't fool yourself when you see her at the Global Championship and such. The Global Championship has real competitions, for professional riders and at the same time, some amateur competitions take place. These are designed for amateur riders , usually from the country where the competition takes place, and everyone who's got the money to pay the very high fees they make them pay can enter. This way the competitions get more money and popularty since most of these riders are the sons and daughters of rich and popular people.
Actually what Charlotte does, following the Global Championship around the world and paying that money and travelling so much is totally absurd. I've got a journalist friend who follows the tour and he told me a few months ago that she's a little bit laughed at.

She trains several days a week. Yes, but many people who do a sport as a hobby do the same think. She travels around the world with her horses. Yes, but she doesn't do it because she needs it to compete. They are plenty of competitions she could enter in the Paris area every weekend and hundreds of riders with a better level than her who don't go around the world following the professional riders like groupies. Her travelling around the world doesn't make any sense and it tires uselessly her horses.

So, yes, her equestrian activities are nothing more than a hobby, no matter how much she trains since she doesn't take part in real competitions, with real prices and rankings.
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  #203  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:49 AM
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You're right, trep. It's a hobby. Albeit, as you say, a very very, very very expensive, very involved, very elaborate hobby, but still...... a hobby.

Wow, you actually called Charlotte a groupie. That might be a bit harsh, but it probably has a grain of truth to it. I never thought of her that way.
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  #204  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:59 AM
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ha, ha, ha... well, I got "a little bit" carried away ...
Calling her a groupie is exagerated, I know. But she is certainly out of place following the Global Tour around the world. But it's her money and she's not hurting anyone, so... she's free to do as she pleases, I guess.

Valentine has a much more logical and intelligent career as a rider, from my pov. She is an amateur aswell, since her real job isn't showjumping. Well, she is way better than Charlotte (she usually runs Grand Prix, even in CSI*** and CSI**** and she gets good results at them), yet she doesn't travel around the world taking part in competitions that are way out of her league.
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  #205  
Old 04-28-2010, 01:48 PM
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Charlotte was at the Antwerp Jumping last weekend
Het Nieuwsblad - Gemeente Antwerpen: FOTO: Charlotte van Monaco rijdt op derde Jumping
Charlotte de Monaco op derde Jumping Antwerpen | DeWereldMorgen.be
Antwerpen - Dochter van Caroline van Monaco op jumping Antwerpen - Gva.be
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  #206  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
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And that's exactly what I meant about the absurd way she is leading her career.
This weekend there's been nearly 20 CSO in France, some of them at the doors of Paris.
Yet, instead of taking part in a national show with riders of her level, she travels to Antwerp to take part in a 1'15 m. competition! That's a low amateur level.
Of course, when you have a look at the startlist you see that nearly every body else taking part in the 1'15 competion is dutch. And that's normal. They are local amateur riders who take part in the event because it's happening close to their homes. A rider in his right mind doesn't travel hundreds of km. to take part in a poor 1.15m competition when he can do it every weekend at home.

And even more absurd, Charlotte places 22 out of 36 riders in such a low level competition. You travel to Atwerp to do that?
Why does she get such poor results with the kind of horses she rides? I know plenty of amateur riders on a budget, who ride cheap 9.000 euros horses and do better than her.
I don't know if Rozier is giving her bad advice, or whether she is very stubborn and thinks that because her mother is so and so she is too good to enter regional and national competions, but she looks kind of silly doing this kind of things.

Edit: because I just realized that she took part in another competion. A 1'25 m. with Troy. Still, amateur level. Nearly everyone else is dutch. And she placed last. 52nd out of 52 riders. Actually she was eliminated. And with such a horse! I don't know if she's ridicouloulsy naif and that Rozier is ripping her off, or if she's so vain and pretentious that she doesn't listen to any advice. But her "career" is starting to look ridicoulous.
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  #207  
Old 04-28-2010, 04:28 PM
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OMG!
You shouldn't be allowed to ride a CSI when you ride like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieuwsblad/4548913616/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieuwsb...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieuwsb...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieuwsb...n/photostream/

And, an amateur rider who doesn't attend to her horse even for five minutes after showjumping and leaves it still saddled in the hands of her groom ? Who does she think she is? Liking it less and less.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieuwsblad/4548280917/

This is poor Troy "before" Charlotte, ridden by someone who doesn't hang on his mounth and stays still while jumping. He looked happy and confident. 1st place in a 1.40 m CSI***
http://www.reitsportnews.at/de/index...nigshofer.html
http://www.reitsportnews.at/de/index.php?/NEWS/csi3-grand-prix-international-2009-theresianische-militaerakademie-viva-litalia-emanuele-gaudiano-ist-der-neue-maria-theresia-derby-sieger-2009-hugo-simon-auf-platz-drei.html?catid=0
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  #208  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:58 PM
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Hmm...I really hate to say this because she's kind of inspired me to want to ride---at least LEARN anyway---but I think you may be right, Trepstrep. If it's true that she placed 52 out of 52 that's rather...unfortunate. She has been riding since she was a child; I would think she would be anywhere from an average to proficient show jumper by now. That's quite a waste of time and money as well to ride that far to make such a low ranking. To be fair, I read somewhere---or it may have been that interview posted above (native French speakers correct me if I'm wrong) that she wanted to bring more attention to the sport. So perhaps that's what she's trying to do. I don't know. I want a horse though. They're such beautiful creatures. Sorry, random.
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  #209  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:16 PM
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She seems really mature in the video
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  #210  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:32 PM
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Unfortunately, I believe the horse - Troy - is more than she can handle at level; he's more experienced than her, and is confused by her instruction, which is why you see him refusing in the one picture (another where she's practically standing in her irons). She needs a patient, mid-level horse that will work with her; not a more experienced horse who is expecting her to know what she's doing - too frustrating (for both, really).
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  #211  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
And that's exactly what I meant about the absurd way she is leading her career.
This weekend there's been nearly 20 CSO in France, some of them at the doors of Paris.
Yet, instead of taking part in a national show with riders of her level, she travels to Antwerp to take part in a 1'15 m. competition! That's a low amateur level.
Of course, when you have a look at the startlist you see that nearly every body else taking part in the 1'15 competion is dutch. And that's normal. They are local amateur riders who take part in the event because it's happening close to their homes. A rider in his right mind doesn't travel hundreds of km. to take part in a poor 1.15m competition when he can do it every weekend at home.

And even more absurd, Charlotte places 22 out of 36 riders in such a low level competition. You travel to Atwerp to do that?
Why does she get such poor results with the kind of horses she rides? I know plenty of amateur riders on a budget, who ride cheap 9.000 euros horses and do better than her.
I don't know if Rozier is giving her bad advice, or whether she is very stubborn and thinks that because her mother is so and so she is too good to enter regional and national competions, but she looks kind of silly doing this kind of things.

Edit: because I just realized that she took part in another competion. A 1'25 m. with Troy. Still, amateur level. Nearly everyone else is dutch. And she placed last. 52nd out of 52 riders. Actually she was eliminated. And with such a horse! I don't know if she's ridicouloulsy naif and that Rozier is ripping her off, or if she's so vain and pretentious that she doesn't listen to any advice. But her "career" is starting to look ridicoulous.
You bring many good points! She passed over the chance to participate in the Barbizon jumping, Granted it was on Rose Ball weekend, but there is an example of a perfectly good Paris-area event. What kind of * is the Antwerpen? 1 or 2*? Could her choice of event have to do with ........ maybe she keeps her horses at Stal Tops unlike where we thought, espace Rozier? hmm

Athina is doing something like this. For some reason, Athina has decided that the small-potatoes events of Italy are her practice ground. She uses the 3* events in Italy to gain experience with her horses and exercise her skills. I guess you could say why does she go to Italy to do this? She could do it in belgium or brazil. But then, I guess it's a little bit different, because unlike Charlotte, she is going for the high stakes. Athina's been jumping from 1m35-60. Just this year she started doing 1m50 and higher for the first time in her life.

I noticed you said Charlotte doesn't earn any euros. It's not entirely true. She has earned a few hundred last year. Maybe 300 euros max for 2009. So after buying her million euro Troy and Tintero, and paying who knows what for everything else, she made a few hundred euros. Charlotte had a good result every now in then when the moon is blue. She's inconsistent, but it does happen..... maybe sometimes she rubs against some good luck.

I wonder about Thierry Rozier too. What is his game? Is he just very fond of Charlotte, or of her family, so he does it for...... his affection for them? or the money? or the prestige of the association? His brother seemed to give up on wasting time as a Grimaldi trainer long ago, and Philippe focuses on his own career and does very well at the highest level. I'm sure Thierry could do that too, but maybe he doesn't want to. He'd rather teach? Can you enlighten us further, trep? I enjoy your posts on this topic. Keep teaching us, please.

cdm, thanks for the pictures and the news. I wasn't expecting Char at that event. Like trep said, Antwerp????
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  #212  
Old 04-28-2010, 09:02 PM
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I would like to point out that when you train with a top of the line trainer like Rozier, as the STUDENT, you dont get to decide what competitions the barn is travelling to. If the trainer says 'Aachen' or 'Spruce Meadows' or 'Palm Beach' then that is where you are going. At our facility the competition schedule is set a year in advance. My trainer has 2 Olympic medals and a world championship. I go where I'm told and compete in the division I am instructed to, because she has a reason for it long term. www.burrassociates.com for anyone who would like to compare. Lelie Burr Howard and Molly Ashe Cawley
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  #213  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:36 PM
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Does Charlotte speak English?
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  #214  
Old 04-28-2010, 11:31 PM
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^yes

English, and French, and Italian, and probably others

mostly French though, and in any case, that interview for a french tv channel
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  #215  
Old 04-29-2010, 06:14 AM
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So many things to say!

First, kells, you should learn to ride!

Second, I totally agree with Horseygal. In the old pictures you can see how relaxed and focused Troy is, and he is not even wearing a noseband. It's a horse that's finished with 0 points 1'45m parcours. Yet, with Charlotte he looks estressed and unhappy and she needs I don't know how many devices who's names in english I don't know to control him.
If you go to this link and click on the second picture in the gallery, you can see how anguished the horse looks:
Antwerpen - Dochter van Caroline van Monaco op jumping Antwerpen - Gva.be

Third, casiraghitrio, Antwerp was a CSI****! I don't know what Thierry's game is but I started losing trust on him when I read? heard? (I can't remember) an interview where he said that Charlotte was a such a good rider, was so incredibly talented, and was going to get such good results with her horses, and blah, blah, blah, when everyone can see that's not true. I mean, he's her teacher he's not going to say: "she's bad, she's got bad hands, she has no balance", publicly, but he was so obviously lying and exagerating that it sounded as if he was just sucking up. And the horses he's making her buy when she's not ready for them... There is something that makes no sense at all there.

About Athina, I think that she is different from Charlotte in many levels. First, Italy wasn't probably her choice, but Dado's who is the top level rider and as a professional he must have good reasons to start the season there. Second, her following the Global Tour is totally logical since her husband is one of the main riders there. If she can take part in smaller competitions while he rides Grand Prix and be together, that's kind of a powerful reason. Third, as you pointed out, she is better than Charlotte. My journalist friend told me some things about her. He treated her very little and left under the impression that she was spoiled and very demanding, but as a rider, he said, Athina is not bad. She's this kind of correct rider who knows her limitations, and stays in her place and takes good care not to disturb the horse. As she can afford the best horses in the world, even if she won't be number one or among the really top riders, she can perfectly well ride high level with more than dignity.

Scooter, I agree with you about a student not being the one to decide where the barn goes, but I really don't think this is the case. Thierry Rozier is based near Paris and even if he only wants to go to CSI level competions they are plenty of CSI** taking place around that area during the jumping season that his barn goes to. The Roziers take part in many competitions in Barbizon, Bois le Roi, Fontainebleau, or if you want to travel 50 km or so, Chantilly or Rambouillet. Yet, Charlotte mainly takes part in the more fashionable and up of the scale shows. So it really looks as if it is her personal choice. Last year, once the tour started she only took part in the Global Tour shows, while during those months the Rozier barn was taking part in many national competitions she didn't enter.
Also, if you have a look at the post-competion parties, you can see that Rozier is usually accompanied only by Charlotte and another girl. So, it is not as if it a big barn travelling together. It's just Thierry and his two girls, and none of them is a top rider.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:59 AM
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[QUOTE=trepstrep;1075023]OMG!
You shouldn't be allowed to ride a CSI when you ride like this:
IMG_0154 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0157 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0163 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_0165 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And, an amateur rider who doesn't attend to her horse even for five minutes after showjumping and leaves it still saddled in the hands of her groom ? Who does she think she is? Liking it less and less.
IMG_0189 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

This is poor Troy "before" Charlotte, ridden by someone who doesn't hang on his mounth and stays still while jumping. He looked happy and confident. 1st place in a 1.40 m CSI***

Forgive my ignorance but I know absolutely nothing about horses - I am referring to the gallery of the first 4 photos - to ask why was the horse that Charlotte was riding frothing at the mouth before I presume and after, she dismounted - the poor horse to me looked to be distressed
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by debrann View Post
Forgive my ignorance but I know absolutely nothing about horses - I am referring to the gallery of the first 4 photos - to ask why was the horse that Charlotte was riding frothing at the mouth before I presume and after, she dismounted - the poor horse to me looked to be distressed
Hi, debrann, the horse IS distressed!
Frothing, per se, is not a bad thing. In fact, often, when the horse is relaxed froth is a good sign. To make it very simple, it means that he feels at ease with the iron in his mouth.
In some cases, though, an excess of froth can be caused by an excess of excitement and nervousness, and this seems to be the case. If you have a look at the old pictures of Troy, you will see that, although he is jumping in a higher level, he looks relaxed, focused.
With Charlotte he looks anxious, there is tension in his mouth and his eyes look distressed, even while already in the air. It looks as if he doesn't understand what Charlotte is asking of him.
Horses are very sensitive and a misunderstandign with a rider can make them nervous. Charlotte was eliminated and that means the her horse refused twice to jump. When a horse of that level refuses to take a 1'20 jump, it usually reflects trust issues. The horse doesn't trust Charlotte's guide or more probably he doesn't trust her hand and thinks he's gonna be hurt in the mouth if he jumps.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:17 AM
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I know Leon Thijssen. And come on, the level difference between them is HUGE.

And mind you when I say that nearly every jumping rider has a bad posture? And I mean every. And I have seen horses been ridden worse. A whole lot worse. And those riders ride nationally and internationally.

Don't overexegarate.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:48 AM
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I don't over exagerate.
The difference between them is huge, of course. But the girl wasn't even able to finish a 1.25 competition with a horse who's proficient at 1'45. Such a horse should fly over 1'20m fences. And she travelled hundreds of km to take part in a low level amateur competition.

I don't agree at all when you say that all jump riders have bad posture (I guess by your words that you are a dressage girl? If it is so, we will never agree ), but in any case I never talked about posture. I talked about hard hands and lack of balance.

And yes, I've seen worst as well, much worst. But not in a rider who follows the Global Tour around the world.
When you have Charlotte's riding level you go to competitions near home, and once in a while you jump a CSI to test yourself. And you buy experienced calm horses who can teach you. You don't buy amazing horses that have been ridden by top riders and you can't manage properly.
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  #220  
Old 04-29-2010, 09:29 AM
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Let's not forget that most horses who are 'careful' (ie dont like to rub the jumps/knock them down) have a bit of a stop in them if they think they might hit the jump. We have one in the barn who is the absolute winner, but you better be right on the distance. If you are 1mm off she will plant you in the dirt.
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