Caroline & The Casiraghi's - University Life


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Ariel said:
Her grandmother said she is an excelent student and very demanding on herself. So that goes well with this selection. Hopefully she will go on with her plans and will have a successful academic experience.

Well, all the people who are studying for this exams are excellent student and demanding on herself, so you can't not say she'll be sure to be selected. I'm too an excellent student and I wasn't selected.
 
fandesacs2003 said:
Hello
Is something not very clear for me. The 75 will go into the ENS, what about the others?? When you fail, what can you do ? Do you have a least a diplome? Or these preparatory years were a total waste of your time? This question may not apply especially to Charlotte, but a normal student, failing this exam is being considered to have a paper to work in his life? Or he comes back in the same level a a simple "bachelor"???
Thanks

It's not a waste of time. You don't have any diplome but you can enter at university in the third year if you studied two years in preparatory class or in fourth year if you did three (like I did). By the way, there's no normal student in these classes, only excellent students.
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
I think the "right" people know who she is. How can they not? Princess Caroline is a very well-connected and known person. I think it's possible her daughter might have some advantage over others. I don't want to be cynical because I adore Charlotte and I am hoping with all my heart that it was her brains that carried her this far and not her connections, but I do think the possibility is there that she might be chosen over someone with a better score because of who her mom is.

No, that can't be, because the first part is a written one, after which few students are selected, and this written one is totally anonymous.
BTW I don't think that a professor of latin who will correct Charlotte's exam does care of princess Caroline.
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
That's the thing that sucks about this system. There are only so many places ENS and other grand ecoles can fill, so those who don't make the cut have to settle for a lower degree. A degree from a lycee is probably still very respectable and I'm sure you can get good jobs with it. The Grand Ecole degree just puts you a notch above. It's comparable to the US system somewhat. I'll explain it this way, for those who are American like me:

(This is a rough comparison. I know the two systems are very different, and these "equivalents" aren't exact. I'm just doing it this way to explain it a "simple" way for my fellow Americans.)

Ecole = primary education
Lycee?? = secondary education
Lycee = undergraduate level
Grand Ecole = graduate level, even post-grad/doctorate level

Obviously, the two systems don't correspond exactly because the amount of years and the level of difficulty varies, but that is basically how it compares. I hope this helps. I'm not exactly sure about my secondary education "equivalent". I used to think Lycee was only the secondary level and not also the undergrad level. Is a person's "high school" also called a lycee? Wasn't the school Char attended in Fontainebleau a lycee?

You don't have to settle for a lower degree if you don't study in grandes écoles, because the grandes écoles Charlotte is applying in don't give diplomes. Students must go to university to get diplomes.
BTW in France with a lycee degree you'll have no nice jobs.
I'm currently in a post-grad degree and I'm not in a Grande Ecole. It will be a five-years diploma, then I'll do a doctorate, 8 years diploma.
 
Danielane said:
It's not a waste of time. You don't have any diplome but you can enter at university in the third year if you studied two years in preparatory class or in fourth year if you did three (like I did). By the way, there's no normal student in these classes, only excellent students.

Hi
Thanks for explanation. By the way, when I say "normal" I mean coming from families not necessary risch, where they need to work immediately after their studies, and their parents can not afford if they loose three years, but you replied to my question that these years are not lost.
Of course they are excellent, I know the level of french studies are anyway very high, imagine how are THE best french students....
I'm french speaker myself and I've very often heard in radio the questions of the baccalaureat, especially in Philo, only to understand the subject, you have to be very high....
It's another galaxy....
Bye
 
fandesacs2003 said:
Hi
Thanks for explanation. By the way, when I say "normal" I mean coming from families not necessary risch, where they need to work immediately after their studies, and their parents can not afford if they loose three years, but you replied to my question that these years are not lost.
Of course they are excellent, I know the level of french studies are anyway very high, imagine how are THE best french students....
I'm french speaker myself and I've very often heard in radio the questions of the baccalaureat, especially in Philo, only to understand the subject, you have to be very high....
It's another galaxy....
Bye

Imagine Charlotte, me and our fellow students of preparatory classes trying to understand philosophy or french literature subjects in preparatoy classes! :D
It's sad to say, but lot of the students in "prepa" (preparatory classes) can afford the studies. Those who can't afford don't go in these classes. That's a shame for me.
But in France, the state gives money some of the poorest so that they can study. And lot of students are working and studying in the same time.
 
Danielane said:
You don't have to settle for a lower degree if you don't study in grandes écoles, because the grandes écoles Charlotte is applying in don't give diplomes. Students must go to university to get diplomes.
BTW in France with a lycee degree you'll have no nice jobs.
I'm currently in a post-grad degree and I'm not in a Grande Ecole. It will be a five-years diploma, then I'll do a doctorate, 8 years diploma.

Danielane, is the secondary level lycee too? I think at secondary level, French students choose between a Lycee and something else, right? They can choose a more "technical?" education if they aren't interested in pursuing a university diploma or Grand Ecole education. Is this correct?

By the way, I'm sure you are correct that a typical professor wouldn't care for Princess Caroline, but remember that all professors are answerable to other people (deans, headmasters, principals, whatever you wish to call them. In General, a higher faculty). The faculty, in turn, are answerable to the Board of Trustees, who rely heavily on benefactors. If Caroline is a benefactor of the school, she'd have influence.
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
Danielane, is the secondary level lycee too? I think at secondary level, French students choose between a Lycee and something else, right? They can choose a more "technical?" education if they aren't interested in pursuing a university diploma or Grand Ecole education. Is this correct?

By the way, I'm sure you are correct that a typical professor wouldn't care for Princess Caroline, but remember that all professors are answerable to other people (deans, headmasters, principals, whatever you wish to call them. In General, a higher faculty). The faculty, in turn, are answerable to the Board of Trustees, who rely heavily on benefactors. If Caroline is a benefactor of the school, she'd have influence.

The secondary level is lycee, and you can choose between "general lycee" and technical lycee. After technical lycee you can pursue cursus in superior level. In superior level there are other school than grandes écoles and university.
About faculty, you're wrong because all the universities and grandes écoles we're speaking of are public and so rely on no benefactor. Only state gives money to them, so there aren't any benefactors. And for me that's the best: I would be very angry if I learnt that Charlotte was admitted in the Ecole Normale Supérieure, familiarly called "Normale Sup' ", only because pf her mother. So princess Caroline isn't benefactor of any school in France. It's not the same system than in America, that's why us french are so proud of it: the best universities are public and not receiving money from anyone except the state.
 
is Fontainebleau for free or not a university? (that ryhmes :p )

Danielane said:
The secondary level is lycee, and you can choose between "general lycee" and technical lycee. After technical lycee you can pursue cursus in superior level. In superior level there are other school than grandes écoles and university.
About faculty, you're wrong because all the universities and grandes écoles we're speaking of are public and so rely on no benefactor. Only state gives money to them, so there aren't any benefactors. And for me that's the best: I would be very angry if I learnt that Charlotte was admitted in the Ecole Normale Supérieure, familiarly called "Normale Sup' ", only because pf her mother. So princess Caroline isn't benefactor of any school in France. It's not the same system than in America, that's why us french are so proud of it: the best universities are public and not receiving money from anyone except the state.
 
susan alicia said:
is Fontainebleau for free or not a university? (that ryhmes :p )

In Fontainebleau there's no university, just lycee. The universities are in Paris.
 
Grace said:
I think you're underestimating Caro's course of study; for what I know (and I hope with all my heart I'm not offending anyone) the workload in European Unis tends to be heavier than the workload for undergraduate studies in the US.

Did you speak to me? I'm European, as well, not French but German. I don't know what you think about German universities in your countries, but I can say it is different from university to univerity but generally, the level is quite high.
I REALLY didn't want to say that philosophy is easy, my best friend studies it, too, I just think that e.g. Prince William probably didn't give many thoughts to earning money and future job possibilities when he chose Art History. And I think that caroline didn't have the aim to be journalist or president, or soemthing like that. If it is true what you said that the Grand(e? oops)s Ecoles are much harder than the "ordinary Universities", than there was no need for her to go to the harder one as long as she didn't want it just for herself.

by the way. this discussion about more or less difficult school systems and universities is dangerous! In germany we have different systems in different parts of the country. Talking to my friends from other parts about school might soon become really bad! One has to be sensitive and sometimes better not say what you are really thinking. Just wanted to mention that because you never know1 After the pregnancy discussion we shouldn't start a new one about school systems:)
 
I was not answering directly to anyone, I was just explaining something about France that probably not the whole world knows, like Danielane has explained me something I didn't know about prep schools, and I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone with my posts; if I inavertedly have, I apologize. I just think it is well known at least in Europe that French and in particular Parisien Unis and schools are very hard and demanding (if you want to go to study abroad mainly to have fun don't go there, my best friend had a really tough year at Science Poand I come from a very competitive uni ), but I didn't mean to bash any other schooling system. Each system in my opinion has its strenghs and weaknesses...

Kisses
 
Danielane said:
The secondary level is lycee, and you can choose between "general lycee" and technical lycee. After technical lycee you can pursue cursus in superior level. In superior level there are other school than grandes écoles and university.
About faculty, you're wrong because all the universities and grandes écoles we're speaking of are public and so rely on no benefactor. Only state gives money to them, so there aren't any benefactors. And for me that's the best: I would be very angry if I learnt that Charlotte was admitted in the Ecole Normale Supérieure, familiarly called "Normale Sup' ", only because pf her mother. So princess Caroline isn't benefactor of any school in France. It's not the same system than in America, that's why us french are so proud of it: the best universities are public and not receiving money from anyone except the state.

Thanks! So the technical Lycee is supposed to be the harder one, right? If students choose the general lycee, do they still take the bac?

That's cool that the best universities are public. I think some of our best universities are the public ones too (i.e. UCLA... all the UC's actually) but many of the most elite ones are private (i.e. Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Brown).
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
Thanks! So the technical Lycee is supposed to be the harder one, right? If students choose the general lycee, do they still take the bac?

That's cool that the best universities are public. I think some of our best universities are the public ones too (i.e. UCLA... all the UC's actually) but many of the most elite ones are private (i.e. Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Brown).

The technical lycee is not harder, it's a different way. The harder is said to be the scientific general bac. In general lycee, there are three ways for the bac: litterar, economic and social sciences, scientific. When you are a good pupil, you take a general bac (except if your passion for a job needs you to take a technical or professionnal bac). The most brilliant students are most of the time in scientific, but the most brilliant one I ever knew was in my class in litterar. I'm a very good student and I took a litterar bac, and I made after this very good studies. So there's no general rule.
 
Danielane said:
The technical lycee is not harder, it's a different way. The harder is said to be the scientific general bac. In general lycee, there are three ways for the bac: litterar, economic and social sciences, scientific. When you are a good pupil, you take a general bac (except if your passion for a job needs you to take a technical or professionnal bac). The most brilliant students are most of the time in scientific, but the most brilliant one I ever knew was in my class in litterar. I'm a very good student and I took a litterar bac, and I made after this very good studies. So there's no general rule.

The three categories of general bac are:
1) Litterar (probably translates to English as 'classics'?)
2) Economic and social sciences
3) Sciences

Do I understand you correctly?

As for the others, are the technical and professional bac's two separate bac's?
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
The three categories of general bac are:
1) Litterar (probably translates to English as 'classics'?)
2) Economic and social sciences
3) Sciences

Do I understand you correctly?

As for the others, are the technical and professional bac's two separate bac's?

It's a little more complicated. There are common subjects to all the bacs, general, technical and professional, and subjects more specific to each bac. It's more a question, for the general bac, of proportions than specifics subjects. An example: all students must take philosophy at the bac, whatever their categories.

For the technical and professional bacs, there are many and various categories and specialities, so there isn't ONE technical or professional bac.
 
I think one of the questions was where Felix studies. I have always assumed that he and Charlotte are studying in the same school. Felix's father, Antoine, studied at ENS, which is where Charlotte is preparing to study (or hoping to study, if she passes the exam, and I'm certain she will!) :)
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
I think one of the questions was where Felix studies. I have always assumed that he and Charlotte are studying in the same school. Felix's father, Antoine, studied at ENS, which is where Charlotte is preparing to study (or hoping to study, if she passes the exam, and I'm certain she will!) :)

I wouldn't be so confident for Charlotte to pass the exam, when so many very brilliant student don't pass it. You have to wait, but sometimes the best don't pass it. We can't say that some or some are going to pass it. Trust me, I taked it and failed twice. ;)
 
Ok, so my theory that they met at classe preparatoire stinks.;) I really would like to know what Charlotte`s career plans are. But I think only time will tell us.:)
 
Danielane said:
I wouldn't be so confident for Charlotte to pass the exam, when so many very brilliant student don't pass it. You have to wait, but sometimes the best don't pass it. We can't say that some or some are going to pass it. Trust me, I taked it and failed twice. ;)

We have to put positive energies out there. We have to support Charlotte, not put out negative energies that aren't any help to anyone.
Charlotte will pass. Felix will pass. :)
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
We have to put positive energies out there. We have to support Charlotte, not put out negative energies that aren't any help to anyone.
Charlotte will pass. Felix will pass. :)

Well, you'll understand that someone who failed an exam she wanted so much won't support lot of people for having this exam. Sorry!
 
Ianna said:
As for her passing/not passing exam, we can only wish her all the best. She is very intelligent girl, demanding on herself (which was already said in this forum, connected with her grandmother's words), and probably aware of percentage of people-students who pass that exam..There's no doubt she'll give best of herself to pass (as other students do too), and we can't do anything else then just wait and see.. And wish all the best not only to Charlotte, to all students which will be in same situation!;) :)

Of course. But it stills hurt me to see people I know or I've heard talking about passing this exam.
 
Danielane said:
Of course. But it stills hurt me to see people I know or I've heard talking about passing this exam.

Can you still take it again or is two a limit? If you can't take it again, then don't despair. You are young. You have many other avenues. Failing an extremely difficult exam does not strip away your worthiness. And of course, you're right, Charlotte might not pass, but I think it's always better to go through life thinking the best will happen, because it's too easy to go the other way, into that dark, negative place. Life is hard enough without reminding yourself of all the obstacles you "can't" overcome. Think in terms of "can" overcome.
:)
 
Danielane said:
Of course. But it stills hurt me to see people I know or I've heard talking about passing this exam.

Don't you worry! As they say, where a door closes, another one opens for you!

Be sure to think there's something better and something that suits YOU exclusively - just around the corner. This might not sound very comforting now, but as time passes, you will be just fine. Things, they have a tendency to work out, you see.
 
CasiraghiTrio said:
Can you still take it again or is two a limit? If you can't take it again, then don't despair. You are young. You have many other avenues. Failing an extremely difficult exam does not strip away your worthiness. And of course, you're right, Charlotte might not pass, but I think it's always better to go through life thinking the best will happen, because it's too easy to go the other way, into that dark, negative place. Life is hard enough without reminding yourself of all the obstacles you "can't" overcome. Think in terms of "can" overcome.
:)

No there's a limit. You must be less than 23 years old (and I'm less than years 23 old), but have not achieved a four-years degree after the bac, and I'm beginning my sixth year after the bac.
 
miau said:
Don't you worry! As they say, where a door closes, another one opens for you!

Be sure to think there's something better and something that suits YOU exclusively - just around the corner. This might not sound very comforting now, but as time passes, you will be just fine. Things, they have a tendency to work out, you see.

Yes, of course. And it's paradoxal because I know how it hurts to failed this exam.
 
Danielane said:
No there's a limit. You must be less than 23 years old (and I'm less than years 23 old), but have not achieved a four-years degree after the bac, and I'm beginning my sixth year after the bac.

That age limit is terrible. I know the US education system has many serious problems, but one thing I like about our culture is that anyone at any age can go to any school and take any exam. Even high school! There's no age limit for reinventing yourself, or trying again, in the US. But of course we have other problems (scores of them) so no one country is "better". I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to imply the US better, because I'm not. That feature is just something I think we got right. I think the French have it right in other things. And Danielane, I'm confident you haven't passed that ENS exam because you will do something else just as great, perhaps better.
 
I have a friend who has tried to get into a university for five-six years already. She still has a chance and if she's determined enough, she'll make it I'm sure. I second Ashley's opinion that it's better not to make things harder with age limits.

Some people only realize what they want to do with their lives at the age of, say, 25. What about higly intelligent people who've only recently migrated into France? What about people who have suffered illnesses and have thus been unable to pass the test?
 
miau said:
I have a friend who has tried to get into a university for five-six years already. She still has a chance and if she's determined enough, she'll make it I'm sure. I second Ashley's opinion that it's better not to make things harder with age limits.

Some people only realize what they want to do with their lives at the age of, say, 25. What about higly intelligent people who've only recently migrated into France? What about people who have suffered illnesses and have thus been unable to pass the test?

I'm a talking of a high school, a grande école, which is very different from an university. This grande école doesn't give diplomas. To get a diploma, you still have to university, and here you can enter whatever your age.And there's no test to enter at university. In this grande école, Normale Sup', it's not a test you have to pass to enter in it but what we call in french a concours (it means only the 75 best will enter). And there is an age limit. In Normale Sup', you're paid for studying here four years.
 
What is the "concours" (=competition?) exactly? How long does it take?

The French system is very interesting, but it's very hard for me to understand. You say that a grande école is the same as high school? However, high schools in my understanding are not considered to be a very high level of education. So, les grandes écoles are institutions that do not offer diplomas but are still highly esteemed?

If you can not get a diploma from a grande école, is it so that people go to university after the grande école?

Oh well, this is a very difficult matter so I'm probably wrong about everything!
 
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