Caroline & The Casiraghi's - University Life

[trepstrep]

To this I strongly disagree. I do not know how old you are and how is the french system now but at this period it was possible. I have a friend about 6 years younger than Caroline who got her french baccalaureat at the age of 16 and a half and this because she jump the first primary school year. She was born in december so she finished very young. It was not uncommun at this period to jump a year if you knew well to read and write. Now it is not very possible. So maybe Caroline did the same! She was the doughter of the ruling prince and she is far from being stupid.

Well, I really don't know how the system worked in the 70's. I know that is was very diffficult to jump a year when I was studying (I entered Sorbonne in the 90's) . I know people who jumped a pre-school year, but no one who jumped CE1.
As far as I know people from my generation all entered university the year you were 18 years old (if your birthday was in november, you were 17, but only for a couple of monts).
But maybe things were different back then, I don't know.

 

[fandesacs2003]

The biography by Roig also states Caroline started university in the 75/76 academic year. It is probable she had got a degree befroe she got married. It is also probable she continued her studies after the divorce.


For me intellectual is a big word for both of them, Caroline and Charlotte. They maybe highly cultured and educated, avid readers.

The official site says that she obtained her baccalaureat at june 1974, she was 17 and half. It makes sense, it let her 4 full academic years till her wedding, june 1978. Technically possible.

I do not think she returned studying after her divorce, it has never said so.

We should not mixing "liking reading books" even serious philosophy books, and studying for years, passing exams, etc etc. It needs a discipline and most of your time doing only this. You can read a book at the beach, or in plane but for exams, you have to stay inside, working a lot, and not spending nights in partying. People are fed up doing this, but it does not mean that they do not have intellectual interests.

 

[Burzg]

i miss too much thing

 

[titiromi]

That would be extremely weird. The french school system doesn't allow you to skip years easily.
Even nowadays if you have a high IQ it is not that easy for the kid to be allowed to jump a year.
But you the palais official site says so aswell. If someone around here had old magazines from 1974-75 we would really know when she did move to Paris.

It's possible and more fluent than you think, I've skipt a year without any pb. You just have to pass the test they propose you to do.

 

[FanofMonaco]

Charlotte has never claimed to be an intellectual. They asked her what she liked reading and she told them. If she was serious she would have continued her studies. She enjoys reading literature and philosophy and enjoys riding. That's all. It doesn't make her an expert in any of these fields. She just does it for her own enjoyment.

As far as discussing philosophy with others, she can discuss it with PC at any time. She also seems to go to that famous cafe in Paris (can't think of the name) that is chock full of people with similar reading interests. That's probably where she bumps into her professor. Karl Lagerfeld also goes there alot.

 

[LovelyKate]

^ You're right, she didn't claim that she was an intellectual. But her interview for Vogue means exactly the same to me. She doesn't say "I'm an intellectual" but she makes a list of her favourite authors, movies, and she choses the most intellectual books and movies in the world, so intellectual that her answers were quite funny, and very clichés. I agree with you that she did it because they asked them to talk about it. But I think that these questions were prepared, because this image of intellectual is too much repeated in medias these days. So, finally, the result is the same: Charlotte didn't say "I'm an intellectual", but her interviews claim it for her.

 

[FanofMonaco]

Like Princess Caroline said in the Barbara Walters interview, the press builds you up and then they tear you down. I also think they ask her these questions because she refuses to talk about her personal life and her family. They don't know what else to ask her about. I am surprised that haven't asked her more about fashion and ecology.

That raises an interesting subject. What questions would the people on this site like to ask Charlotte? Maybe we can give them some ideas.

I would like to know more about her association with Monaco. Does she speak Monagasque? Is she an employee of the government or Prince Albert? Does she have any government responsiblities besides the obvious ones in the press? eg. is she required to stay up on what is going on in Monaco such as reading reports or attending certain meetings? She is 4th in line. Did she have to go thru any special training as a child ? Since she went to school in France, I would think at a minimum she would have had to learn about Monaco's history and how the government works. I am wondering if she had to learn more about the government than the average Monegasque student? I know Andrea has gone thru special training.

 

[American Dane]

Like Princess Caroline said in the Barbara Walters interview, the press builds you up and then they tear you down. I also think they ask her these questions because she refuses to talk about her personal life and her family. They don't know what else to ask her about. I am surprised that haven't asked her more about fashion and ecology.

That raises an interesting subject. What questions would the people on this site like to ask Charlotte? Maybe we can give them some ideas.

I would like to know more about her association with Monaco. Does she speak Monagasque? Is she an employee of the government or Prince Albert? Does she have any government responsiblities besides the obvious ones in the press? eg. is she required to stay up on what is going on in Monaco such as reading reports or attending certain meetings? She is 4th in line. Did she have to go thru any special training as a child ? Since she went to school in France, I would think at a minimum she would have had to learn about Monaco's history and how the government works. I am wondering if she had to learn more about the government than the average Monegasque student? I know Andrea has gone thru special training.

I've never heard that, what special training did he go through?

 

[cdm]

I also read that but only in magazines, never in interviews or official statements.
I don't think it's true.

 

[FanofMonaco]

Andrea majored in politics at AUP and got a masters at the New School in NYC; similar to the kind of training that PA had. Andrea also did the internship at the Qatar Embassy in Paris. All geared towards a government job. I assume he is working for the government of Monaco in some capacity now.

 

[iloveroyals]

(Caroline) I did some sleuth work and came up with interesting contradictions.
Every magazine agrees that she failed her first year of Sciences Politiques in 1975. Point de Vue, sept 75, asserts that she really wants to try again, because she can't tolerate failure, she is a determined person, etc, etc.
An aise: I tend to believe Point de Vue when they say something that has a negative slant. At the time they earned a living by fawning on the royals and obtaining exclusive interviews. you'll see later why it matters.

Shortly after, Point de Vue makes a different statement:"Caroline will not try Sciences Po again, she is now working on her studies in philosophy at the Sorbonne."

People, August 76: She has passed her first year philosophy exams at the Sorbonne and will be a Sorbonne junior next month, pursuing majors in philosophy and child psychology. (very weird: if you pass your first year exams, you become a sophomore, not a junior. Or did her year at Sciences Po count as a first year at U? There is some confusion there.)

Philadelphia Daily News,25 August 77: "Princess Caroline met Junot at the home of mutual friends in Paris where the princess was studying philosophy at the Sorbonne, the palace annoucement said." (Parenthetically, there are multiple versions about their first meeting, one claiming it goes as far back as 73. But that's off topic.)


Philadadelphia Magazine, Dec 78:"And when it's over (her UNESCO presidency of Monaco in 1979), she'll return to college to complete her education and win her philosophy degree."

Paris-Match, Jan 78 (the year of her marriage): With the marriage in June, the princess will have completed her studies in psychology at the Sorbonne.

Point de Vue, March 78: She is now in the thrid year in her licence in philosophy.
VSD, June 78. She only owes it to her hard work to have gotten her licence in philosophy at the Sorbonne this year.

Jours de France, May 1979:"She is working very hard to complete her licence in philosophy."

Good Housekeeping. Sept 79 : "caroline recently graduated from the Sorbonne with a degree in philosophy and child psychology".

Point de Vue, in an interview of Caroline, June 1979: "You had started a course of studies in philosophy. Don't you feel it is an "abandon" not to have completed your licence?" Caroline: "For the first time in my life, last October,(-78, after the wedding-) I didn't go to school. I hesitate to take courses, for fear of being chased by photographers."

Point de Vue, sept 80. Her possible projects: pick up where she left off in her studies of child psychology,..."

Point de Vue, Nov 80: "Pick up her studies again? She does not feel like it. caroline is now an adult, mature through her ordeals. She neither has the style nor the aspirations of the little student."
(I have more but I have to quit, I am on limited time at the library)

 

[AmericanQueen]

(Caroline) I did some sleuth work and came up with interesting contradictions...

Wow!! That's interesting. I think the fact that her education is shrouded in such mystery is revealing....

 

[iloveroyals]

Got a few extra minutes:

Point de Vue, June 78. She is registered at the Sorbonne to get a degree in philosophy. She should be getting her licence. She is taking 3 of the exams in June and will take the other 4 in September. Her goal is to get a Master's.

I think this is the key statement here: She never went back to take the other tests. Point de Vue never referred to her having gotten a licence, because, having the best fact-checkers , getting the personal interviews, and having made the blunder of announcing she had passed the first year of Sciences Po, they did not want to be called to task again by people who knew and start losing their credibility. In fact, in the interview with Caroline in June 79, they asked the question about having abandoned her studies.

Paris-Match, in an interview, May 79. "You have a licence in philosophy..." She does not deny it.

The Star, Sept 80. (I know, not the best reference!) "Then,in October, she plans to start a new one -year course in child psychology at the Sorbonne University in Paris so she can pursue her dream of working with kids."

Do you remember Jours de france, in May 79? "She's working real hard to finish her licence."?

Other tidbits:
Paris-Match, August 80. Caroline had left last July to take a psychology course at Oxford, in Great Britain. For one month, she lived the life of a recluse, never setting foot outside of the campus.

Forgot: Point de Vue, May 78. (picture attached). "Almost very morning the princess gets up at about 7:30. Either to go to the faculte de Clignancourt where she is completing her licence in philosophy, or to study at home."
(Is the faculte de Clignancourt part of the Sorbonne, I don't know. The Sorbonne had to use other buildings.)

Also, correction: According to the new rules (as Lovelykate pointed out to me) two years in prepa, as Charlotte did, counts for nothing when you join the University, hence, the bac+0. "Back in my time" it counted for 2 years at U, so if you failed the competitive exam, you had not wasted 2 years of your life.

I had to write this: Point de Vue, August 81: "Caroline took refuge in Austria staying with friends."

There is a great deal about the languages she knows, with contradictions. But that's not the topic.

So I need to resurface from all that voyeurism, it makes me feel uneasy, especially because I couldn't care less about whether she got a licence or not. I do care about being lied to by the press, in any topic. But you be the judge. In my opinion she does not have one, for the only reliable source, Point de Vue, would have mentioned it at some point, and they never did. They mentioned the opposite.

 

[FanofMonaco]

If Charlotte didn't get any credit for her 2 years at Fenelon she probably doesn't have a degree. That's crazy that you wouldn't tho. She probably got a better education in those 2 years than she would have gotten going the first 2 years at the Sorbonne.

 

[Sancia]

If Charlotte didn't get any credit for her 2 years at Fenelon she probably doesn't have a degree. That's crazy that you wouldn't tho. She probably got a better education in those 2 years than she would have gotten going the first 2 years at the Sorbonne.

There are possibilities to get credits at university after years of preparatory classes, like Charlotte did (if she went through the two years). Almost every student coming from literary preparatory classes gets a two-years credit at university in their main subjects, so they are allowed to enter in licence-third-year after these two years. I agree students get a very good teaching during these years.

 

[kells]

I don't know if my question was moved here, but did Pierre graduate?

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I never knew if Charlotte finished her studies or not. Did she? What did it say in her interview in Vogue?

 

[LovelyKate]

^ She said she didn't. I don't remember how she said it, but she did!

 

[Nathalie Cox]

^ She said she didn't. I don't remember how she said it, but she did!

LOL! Thanks!
So (i don't want to go off topic, maybe this goes to the Casiraghis studies thread) the only one that finished his studies was Andrea? Because i don't remember Pierre finishing either. Well, if he didn't, at least he is working, or learning, in his father's company.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Andrea IS NOT in Monaco. He's studying for another master's degree in Barcelona, at the University of Barcelona until 2012, according to Wikipedia. He was last seen with Charlotte at the Tod's party in Paris during Fashion week.

Without being bad...Andrea gives me the impression to eternally study.. but i do not think he does something concrete! an improvment.
Some people in this forum keep accusing Charlotte for not finishing her agrrg. but at least she succeeded some years in Sorbonne ans she is riding and doing some modelling and editing. But Andrea what is he doing? I never understood

 

[Nathalie Cox]

From what I understand (i can be wrong) Andrea is the only one that has finished his studies. And now apparently is doing masters, something like, improving what he already knows.
So far he is the only of the siblings that has fullfilled his education. Plus, his rebel years are in the past, and now behaves properly.

 

[fandesacs2003]

From what I understand (i can be wrong) Andrea is the only one that has finished his studies. And now apparently is doing masters, something like, improving what he already knows.
So far he is the only of the siblings that has fullfilled his education. Plus, his rebel years are in the past, and now behaves properly.

What did he study? A good University or a private unsignificant school? At least Charlotte attended Sorbonne.

Pierre went to Bocogni and I thought he finished. Bocogni is one of the highest Universities in Europe.

 

[LovelyKate]

The fact is that we will never really know the truth about the Casiraghis' university cursus. I am sure that Charlotte didn't finish her studies in Paris, that she has no degrees. But newspapers have another theory because they have to show a smart image of her to sell more.
I don't know about Pierre: he's very discreet, Boconni is sure because it is where he met Beatrice.
I don't know for Andrea. Did he finish? He never talked about it.
As they have no official role to play, Monaco Palace doesn't have to tell public what they do (as Clarence house does for Harry and William). That's why Casiraghis' degrees is an endless subject of discussion.

As Charlotte is concerned, I am sure of what I say, because - and I already explained it on this forum, if I remember well:
1. She studied for 2 years at Fenelon prepa;
2. She failed ENS.
3. As she failed, she went to Sorbonne to study philosophy, and that's the moment french university laws have to be mentionned:
- in the PAST: different degrees (DEUG = 2 years; LICENCE = 3 years; MAÎTRISE = 4 years; DOCTORAT = more years).
- NOW: there was a big "reforme" at the beginning of president Sarkozy's reign. We have less degrees now than in the past (to have the same as the other countries of European Union) (LICENCE = 3 years; MASTER = 4 years; DOCTORAT = more - link to the official explaination of this reforme by french government here, but in french).
This reforme was applied during my second year of DEUG. At the end of this year, I had no degree, and I had to study one more year to have a licence. This was the time Charlotte was in her 2nd year of prepa. This means that when she arrived at Sorbonne, she was accepted directly in 3rd year, which is normal. But France didn't gave her any degree, because DEUG wasn't anymore: she sould have finished her 3rd year in Paris to get a LICENCE. This year she met Alex, she partied more and more (maybe discovering how free she was, at 20, prefering having fun with her friends rather than studying night and days for a licence - that was the time we saw the only pics of her a bit drunk) and she didn't go anymore to the university. Some students said that at the beginning of the year they saw her, and then she disappeared. And Charlotte herself said she gave up her studies during her 3rd year (in the Vogue interview I think).

This is a long post, to explain you that when I say that Charlotte doens't have any degree it's not an accusation, but it is the result of a long reflexion about what we know about her during these years, about my country's university system, and about my own experience. I'm not a Charlotte-hater, just a truth-lover.

 

[fandesacs2003]

THANKS !!!!!! It is the first time since this endless discussion, that i inderstood something concrete (calendary) on Charlotte's stydies.

About Andrea, I think he finished nothing, or at least a really non important school.

I think Pierre has the best cursus. I presume that such an important university like Bocogni, has an alumni. If Pierre has completed his studies, his name should be published somewhere. Maybe our italian friends could help.

 

[LovelyKate]

^ You're welcome! I'm happy if my explainations were clear, that was my aim!

 

[azure]

Well, LovelyKate, i give you creds about your post for Char, too.
It's not a bad thing that she stopped her university but i think that it is a pity.
About the french uni system: In case you fail to pass some exams, can you be given another more year to get the degree?

 

[Nathalie Cox]

THANKS !!!!!! It is the first time since this endless discussion, that i inderstood something concrete (calendary) on Charlotte's stydies.

About Andrea, I think he finished nothing, or at least a really non important school.

I think Pierre has the best cursus. I presume that such an important university like Bocogni, has an alumni. If Pierre has completed his studies, his name should be published somewhere. Maybe our italian friends could help.

Andrea did finish. He studied in American University of Paris. In his last year interview it says he is a political scientist (sp?) and actually his interview said more substancial things than Charlotte's many.
He studied at AUP in NY, then he did a course at McGill Uni in Canada, finished, he did his internship in Paris' Qatar Embassy, that is mentioned in his interview, and he described what he did. And according to wikipedia (that i have no idea who might have wrote that) he is doing a masters in University of Barcelona.

Charlotte didn't finished her studies, we all know that, and Pierre had to re do a curse, and he left Bocconi at third year. But he is learning hand in hand in his father bussiness.

 

[LovelyKate]

Well, LovelyKate, i give you creds about your post for Char, too.
It's not a bad thing that she stopped her university but i think that it is a pity.
About the french uni system: If you fail to pass some exams, can you be given another more year to get the degree?

I think that you can, but only the year following your failure.
In Charlotte's case, it's more complicated because when she was in prepa she didn't pass any exam. In that case (when you just arrive from prepa), if you fail the exams at the end of the 3rd year, you return to 1st year. This must be very hard to live! It's very strict, but usually when you arrive from prepa you don't have many problems to succeed in your exams. I have even known some students arriving from prepa and succeeding in TWO licences (a language and history, or a language and french litterature, or french litterature and history). And they didn't come from Fenelon. So imagine what Charlotte could have do at university!

 

[titiromi]

In his last year interview it says he is a political scientist (sp?).

Is it the equivalent of a License of "Sciences Politiques"? If this is the case I wonder why did he not try to do a Concours for L'ENA or something similar because we can't work with just a license of "Sciences Politiques".

 

[azure]

I think that you can, but only the year following your failure.
In Charlotte's case, it's more complicated because when she was in prepa she didn't pass any exam. In that case (when you just arrive from prepa), if you fail the exams at the end of the 3rd year, you return to 1st year. This must be very hard to live! It's very strict, but usually when you arrive from prepa you don't have many problems to succeed in your exams. I have even known some students arriving from prepa and succeeding in TWO licences (a language and history, or a language and french litterature, or french litterature and history). And they didn't come from Fenelon. So imagine what Charlotte could have do at university!

It sounds really complicated and maybe Char was disappointed with her failure. And taking into consideration all the hard work she had to do, she quit.