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  #81  
Old 10-17-2005, 07:37 AM
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Thanks for explaining, I knew the difference between Universities and Grandes Ecoles, but I know very very little about khagne and hypokhagne.
Just one question, do you have to attend a different kind of hypokagne for each Grand Ecole? I mean, after the one she is attending can Char take the "exam" (concour) for any grande ecole or just for ENA?
Usually does it count who you are and who you know when you take the exam? In Italy it usually does, even when they say it doesn't, but maybe in France you're more serious...

Thanks for the information,

Kisses
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  #82  
Old 10-17-2005, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
Thanks for explaining, I knew the difference between Universities and Grandes Ecoles, but I know very very little about khagne and hypokhagne.
Just one question, do you have to attend a different kind of hypokagne for each Grand Ecole? I mean, after the one she is attending can Char take the "exam" (concour) for any grande ecole or just for ENA?
Usually does it count who you are and who you know when you take the exam? In Italy it usually does, even when they say it doesn't, but maybe in France you're more serious...

Thanks for the information,

Kisses
Why are we Italians always so self-deprecating?
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  #83  
Old 10-17-2005, 08:23 AM
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I think Grace is right about the Grand Ecoles and the hypokagne (sp?), but, please correct me if necessary, I think there's a limit. I don't know if ENS exam can be taken by any hypokagne student from any Grand Ecole. I think they take from certain ones because on the ENS website (ens.fr) it says specifically which schools prepare for the exam, unless I am misunderstanding, which is highly possible, as my French is a little shaky. So Lycee Fenelon might have courses that prepare you for other Grand Ecoles but I believe their hypokagne course is specifically designed for the ENS exam. Again, I might have read it wrong, but that was my impression.

Grace, you're absolutely correct about US universities. They are nowhere near as difficult as French universities. I cannot speak about other European universities, because I only know somewhat about French ones. Additionally, the Grand Ecoles are even more advanced than US universities, if my impression is right. I think French students would have a nice vacation if they took a semester or two as an exchange student in the US. :p

Thanks to all we replied to my post about Char's academic pursuits because I feel very enlightened. I love learning about French education. I do hope that Charlotte got into Lycee Fenelon because of her BAC scores and not because of who she is. I hope that her results get her into ENS and that she does not "beat" someone who scores better just because of who she is. I hope I'm not being naive here.
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  #84  
Old 10-17-2005, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
Thanks for explaining, I knew the difference between Universities and Grandes Ecoles, but I know very very little about khagne and hypokhagne.
Just one question, do you have to attend a different kind of hypokagne for each Grand Ecole? I mean, after the one she is attending can Char take the "exam" (concour) for any grande ecole or just for ENA?
Usually does it count who you are and who you know when you take the exam? In Italy it usually does, even when they say it doesn't, but maybe in France you're more serious...

Thanks for the information,

Kisses
You can take the exam till 23 years old only, and the exam after khâgne is just for the grandes écoles named ENS (Ecole Normale Supérieure). To prepare ENA you need another "university", called Sciences Po. You can pass the exam for ENS after two years of studying after the bac. For the ENA you need at least five or six years of studies.
No it doesn't count who you are, theoretically it doesn't. But a name very known can help a lot. Or coming from a very well-known school, when you prepare the ENS, helps a lot.
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  #85  
Old 10-17-2005, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I think Grace is right about the Grand Ecoles and the hypokagne (sp?), but, please correct me if necessary, I think there's a limit. I don't know if ENS exam can be taken by any hypokagne student from any Grand Ecole. I think they take from certain ones because on the ENS website (ens.fr) it says specifically which schools prepare for the exam, unless I am misunderstanding, which is highly possible, as my French is a little shaky. So Lycee Fenelon might have courses that prepare you for other Grand Ecoles but I believe their hypokagne course is specifically designed for the ENS exam. Again, I might have read it wrong, but that was my impression.

Grace, you're absolutely correct about US universities. They are nowhere near as difficult as French universities. I cannot speak about other European universities, because I only know somewhat about French ones. Additionally, the Grand Ecoles are even more advanced than US universities, if my impression is right. I think French students would have a nice vacation if they took a semester or two as an exchange student in the US. :p

Thanks to all we replied to my post about Char's academic pursuits because I feel very enlightened. I love learning about French education. I do hope that Charlotte got into Lycee Fenelon because of her BAC scores and not because of who she is. I hope that her results get her into ENS and that she does not "beat" someone who scores better just because of who she is. I hope I'm not being naive here.
Yes, Fenelon is only for preparing ENS.
To get her into ENS, she will need to be in the 75 best. If not, she won't...
To be honest, I don't think that the "examinators", the "jury" of the ENS even know who is Charlotte Casiraghi...
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  #86  
Old 10-17-2005, 09:45 AM
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Her grandmother said she is an excelent student and very demanding on herself. So that goes well with this selection. Hopefully she will go on with her plans and will have a successful academic experience.
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  #87  
Old 10-17-2005, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
Yes, Fenelon is only for preparing ENS.
To get her into ENS, she will need to be in the 75 best. If not, she won't...
To be honest, I don't think that the "examinators", the "jury" of the ENS even know who is Charlotte Casiraghi...
Hello
Is something not very clear for me. The 75 will go into the ENS, what about the others?? When you fail, what can you do ? Do you have a least a diplome? Or these preparatory years were a total waste of your time? This question may not apply especially to Charlotte, but a normal student, failing this exam is being considered to have a paper to work in his life? Or he comes back in the same level a a simple "bachelor"???
Thanks
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  #88  
Old 10-17-2005, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
Yes, Fenelon is only for preparing ENS.
To get her into ENS, she will need to be in the 75 best. If not, she won't...
To be honest, I don't think that the "examinators", the "jury" of the ENS even know who is Charlotte Casiraghi...
I think the "right" people know who she is. How can they not? Princess Caroline is a very well-connected and known person. I think it's possible her daughter might have some advantage over others. I don't want to be cynical because I adore Charlotte and I am hoping with all my heart that it was her brains that carried her this far and not her connections, but I do think the possibility is there that she might be chosen over someone with a better score because of who her mom is.
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  #89  
Old 10-17-2005, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
Hello
Is something not very clear for me. The 75 will go into the ENS, what about the others?? When you fail, what can you do ? Do you have a least a diplome? Or these preparatory years were a total waste of your time? This question may not apply especially to Charlotte, but a normal student, failing this exam is being considered to have a paper to work in his life? Or he comes back in the same level a a simple "bachelor"???
Thanks
That's the thing that sucks about this system. There are only so many places ENS and other grand ecoles can fill, so those who don't make the cut have to settle for a lower degree. A degree from a lycee is probably still very respectable and I'm sure you can get good jobs with it. The Grand Ecole degree just puts you a notch above. It's comparable to the US system somewhat. I'll explain it this way, for those who are American like me:

(This is a rough comparison. I know the two systems are very different, and these "equivalents" aren't exact. I'm just doing it this way to explain it a "simple" way for my fellow Americans.)

Ecole = primary education
Lycee?? = secondary education
Lycee = undergraduate level
Grand Ecole = graduate level, even post-grad/doctorate level

Obviously, the two systems don't correspond exactly because the amount of years and the level of difficulty varies, but that is basically how it compares. I hope this helps. I'm not exactly sure about my secondary education "equivalent". I used to think Lycee was only the secondary level and not also the undergrad level. Is a person's "high school" also called a lycee? Wasn't the school Char attended in Fontainebleau a lycee?
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  #90  
Old 10-17-2005, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca
Why are we Italians always so self-deprecating?
Actually I don't think I was being self-deprecating, I just know that's how it often works in Italy and unfortunately in many other Countries (I think more or less everywhere actually, somewhere more and somewhere less).
At the same time I stated European Universities (Italian included) tend to be more demanding than American ones; I just tried to be objective given the little knowledge I have of the different education systems.

Dianelane, thanks a lot for the additional info, I didn't know that you had to attend Science-Po before applying for ENA; I have personal experience of how hard, demanding and competitive Science Po can be, so now I fully appreciate how difficult completing the course of study at ENA can be. If I understood correctly, after the courses she is supposedly taking Char can try to enter ENS, that is an equivalent (in terms of how you prepare to enter) of Science Po...As for the admission, I think her connections more than her name can possibly help her but won't be decisive.

Thanks again for the interesting information...

Kisses
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  #91  
Old 10-17-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
Her grandmother said she is an excelent student and very demanding on herself. So that goes well with this selection. Hopefully she will go on with her plans and will have a successful academic experience.
Well, all the people who are studying for this exams are excellent student and demanding on herself, so you can't not say she'll be sure to be selected. I'm too an excellent student and I wasn't selected.
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  #92  
Old 10-17-2005, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
Hello
Is something not very clear for me. The 75 will go into the ENS, what about the others?? When you fail, what can you do ? Do you have a least a diplome? Or these preparatory years were a total waste of your time? This question may not apply especially to Charlotte, but a normal student, failing this exam is being considered to have a paper to work in his life? Or he comes back in the same level a a simple "bachelor"???
Thanks
It's not a waste of time. You don't have any diplome but you can enter at university in the third year if you studied two years in preparatory class or in fourth year if you did three (like I did). By the way, there's no normal student in these classes, only excellent students.
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  #93  
Old 10-17-2005, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I think the "right" people know who she is. How can they not? Princess Caroline is a very well-connected and known person. I think it's possible her daughter might have some advantage over others. I don't want to be cynical because I adore Charlotte and I am hoping with all my heart that it was her brains that carried her this far and not her connections, but I do think the possibility is there that she might be chosen over someone with a better score because of who her mom is.
No, that can't be, because the first part is a written one, after which few students are selected, and this written one is totally anonymous.
BTW I don't think that a professor of latin who will correct Charlotte's exam does care of princess Caroline.
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  #94  
Old 10-17-2005, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
That's the thing that sucks about this system. There are only so many places ENS and other grand ecoles can fill, so those who don't make the cut have to settle for a lower degree. A degree from a lycee is probably still very respectable and I'm sure you can get good jobs with it. The Grand Ecole degree just puts you a notch above. It's comparable to the US system somewhat. I'll explain it this way, for those who are American like me:

(This is a rough comparison. I know the two systems are very different, and these "equivalents" aren't exact. I'm just doing it this way to explain it a "simple" way for my fellow Americans.)

Ecole = primary education
Lycee?? = secondary education
Lycee = undergraduate level
Grand Ecole = graduate level, even post-grad/doctorate level

Obviously, the two systems don't correspond exactly because the amount of years and the level of difficulty varies, but that is basically how it compares. I hope this helps. I'm not exactly sure about my secondary education "equivalent". I used to think Lycee was only the secondary level and not also the undergrad level. Is a person's "high school" also called a lycee? Wasn't the school Char attended in Fontainebleau a lycee?
You don't have to settle for a lower degree if you don't study in grandes écoles, because the grandes écoles Charlotte is applying in don't give diplomes. Students must go to university to get diplomes.
BTW in France with a lycee degree you'll have no nice jobs.
I'm currently in a post-grad degree and I'm not in a Grande Ecole. It will be a five-years diploma, then I'll do a doctorate, 8 years diploma.
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  #95  
Old 10-17-2005, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
It's not a waste of time. You don't have any diplome but you can enter at university in the third year if you studied two years in preparatory class or in fourth year if you did three (like I did). By the way, there's no normal student in these classes, only excellent students.
Hi
Thanks for explanation. By the way, when I say "normal" I mean coming from families not necessary risch, where they need to work immediately after their studies, and their parents can not afford if they loose three years, but you replied to my question that these years are not lost.
Of course they are excellent, I know the level of french studies are anyway very high, imagine how are THE best french students....
I'm french speaker myself and I've very often heard in radio the questions of the baccalaureat, especially in Philo, only to understand the subject, you have to be very high....
It's another galaxy....
Bye
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  #96  
Old 10-17-2005, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
Hi
Thanks for explanation. By the way, when I say "normal" I mean coming from families not necessary risch, where they need to work immediately after their studies, and their parents can not afford if they loose three years, but you replied to my question that these years are not lost.
Of course they are excellent, I know the level of french studies are anyway very high, imagine how are THE best french students....
I'm french speaker myself and I've very often heard in radio the questions of the baccalaureat, especially in Philo, only to understand the subject, you have to be very high....
It's another galaxy....
Bye
Imagine Charlotte, me and our fellow students of preparatory classes trying to understand philosophy or french literature subjects in preparatoy classes!
It's sad to say, but lot of the students in "prepa" (preparatory classes) can afford the studies. Those who can't afford don't go in these classes. That's a shame for me.
But in France, the state gives money some of the poorest so that they can study. And lot of students are working and studying in the same time.
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  #97  
Old 10-18-2005, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
You don't have to settle for a lower degree if you don't study in grandes écoles, because the grandes écoles Charlotte is applying in don't give diplomes. Students must go to university to get diplomes.
BTW in France with a lycee degree you'll have no nice jobs.
I'm currently in a post-grad degree and I'm not in a Grande Ecole. It will be a five-years diploma, then I'll do a doctorate, 8 years diploma.
Danielane, is the secondary level lycee too? I think at secondary level, French students choose between a Lycee and something else, right? They can choose a more "technical?" education if they aren't interested in pursuing a university diploma or Grand Ecole education. Is this correct?

By the way, I'm sure you are correct that a typical professor wouldn't care for Princess Caroline, but remember that all professors are answerable to other people (deans, headmasters, principals, whatever you wish to call them. In General, a higher faculty). The faculty, in turn, are answerable to the Board of Trustees, who rely heavily on benefactors. If Caroline is a benefactor of the school, she'd have influence.
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  #98  
Old 10-18-2005, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Danielane, is the secondary level lycee too? I think at secondary level, French students choose between a Lycee and something else, right? They can choose a more "technical?" education if they aren't interested in pursuing a university diploma or Grand Ecole education. Is this correct?

By the way, I'm sure you are correct that a typical professor wouldn't care for Princess Caroline, but remember that all professors are answerable to other people (deans, headmasters, principals, whatever you wish to call them. In General, a higher faculty). The faculty, in turn, are answerable to the Board of Trustees, who rely heavily on benefactors. If Caroline is a benefactor of the school, she'd have influence.
The secondary level is lycee, and you can choose between "general lycee" and technical lycee. After technical lycee you can pursue cursus in superior level. In superior level there are other school than grandes écoles and university.
About faculty, you're wrong because all the universities and grandes écoles we're speaking of are public and so rely on no benefactor. Only state gives money to them, so there aren't any benefactors. And for me that's the best: I would be very angry if I learnt that Charlotte was admitted in the Ecole Normale Supérieure, familiarly called "Normale Sup' ", only because pf her mother. So princess Caroline isn't benefactor of any school in France. It's not the same system than in America, that's why us french are so proud of it: the best universities are public and not receiving money from anyone except the state.
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  #99  
Old 10-18-2005, 06:26 AM
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is Fontainebleau for free or not a university? (that ryhmes :p )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
The secondary level is lycee, and you can choose between "general lycee" and technical lycee. After technical lycee you can pursue cursus in superior level. In superior level there are other school than grandes écoles and university.
About faculty, you're wrong because all the universities and grandes écoles we're speaking of are public and so rely on no benefactor. Only state gives money to them, so there aren't any benefactors. And for me that's the best: I would be very angry if I learnt that Charlotte was admitted in the Ecole Normale Supérieure, familiarly called "Normale Sup' ", only because pf her mother. So princess Caroline isn't benefactor of any school in France. It's not the same system than in America, that's why us french are so proud of it: the best universities are public and not receiving money from anyone except the state.
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  #100  
Old 10-18-2005, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia
is Fontainebleau for free or not a university? (that ryhmes :p )
In Fontainebleau there's no university, just lycee. The universities are in Paris.
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