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  #801  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:13 PM
Vanya Trubetskoy's Avatar
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Off topic I know, but I just want to say....

In The United States of America if you do not get a college degree of some sort, bachelor's, masters you will not get any sort of work beyond min wage.
(unless you go into sales/marketing, which you don't need a college degree, or civic jobs).

College can be many different things, meeting new people, moving out of state
living on your own, meeting/making friends with people from all over the world, etc...etc...etc.
I went and graduated from NYU, having never been to NYC, my first week was quite nerve racking! But I settled down and loved my time there!
No doubt about college changes you, you do a lot of growing up.
But with that said....You go to college to get a degree....so you can enter a profession......so you can better your life. Period. End of sentence.
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  #802  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:19 PM
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What is odd is that no photographs of Caroline or Charlotte have ever surfaced as they went in or out of the building called Sorbonne. The explanation could be that they were in another building and the paparazzis didn't have enough manpower to corner all the doors in every building susceptible of holding It's amazing how a thread getting so old continues to generate interest and new input. Here's my two cents' worth:
classes in their field of studies.

I have a very vague recollection of a picture of Caroline inside the courtyard of the Sorbonne and of a girl who, in an article (in Elle, I believe, was quoted saying she used to stalk Caroline in the corridors and was completely in awe of having a princess (and not any princess) taking courses in the same building as she. Perhaps the old-timers would remember it?

It may also be that Charlotte acquired her licence in another way, such as some online courses, and some private lessons with the great philosopher from Liberation, or whatever.

I can't speak for everyone who wonders about that alleged degree, but my position is that it doesn't reflect on her intelligence or determination. The two years at Fenelon are so grueling, they are worth at least three years at U. In the U.S, the student would probably have her junior year abroad, for a change of pace.

Two years after the bac are worth Bac+2, not Bac+0. In the past it meant you got a DEUG, a name which was worth nothing on a resume. In fact it meant you were a drop-out. Now, with the standardization of degrees in Europe, it is not called anything anymore except Bac+2.

There is no graduation party after you get your licence anyway, it is all very anti-climactic, you get your diploma in the mail. So the absence of a graduation party has no significance.
What strikes me about Charlotte is that when we see photographs, she never seems to do anything outside of her circle. It’s always as if she was in a cocoon.

It’s a shame in a way that she didn’t go to the U.S to get an education. By comparison, Caroline Kennedy’s oldest daughter Rose participated in school projects at Harvard, from which she graduated, and gave some very thoughtful answers on a documentary film she did for a film class as part of a class project. You could sense her involvement, the drawing of conclusions based on her experience, her sensitivity. Not to mention that if a large part of her life is millionaire-oriented, she’s been thinking of running for politics and has been around other kids, some perhaps average and a lot of brilliant ones. Anyway, that’s the kind of PR preparation Charlotte needs for her interviews: showing insight from a personal, not general experience that would highlight her curiosity about the world.

Some are always saying, “well she’s only (20,21,22,23,24,25)” but with her potential, well, when do we stop saying, “she’s only…” I won’t go there, the girl does what she darn well wants.

I lost my Internet connection and then was logged out numerous times. By the time I post this, everybody has said what I said, I am like 5 posts behind. Trepstep, I swear we said cocoon at the very same time, it's very telling. I am tempted to go track down my magazines from 1974, 75, but it must be 120F where they are.
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  #803  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:21 PM
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The first paragraph is all garbled and I am not allowed to edit myself. Help!
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  #804  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:26 PM
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First paragraph
It's amazing how a thread getting so old continues to generate interest and new input. Here's my two cents' worth:

What is odd is that no photographs of Caroline or Charlotte have ever surfaced as they went in or out of the building called the Sorbonne. The explanation could be that they were in another building and the paparazzis didn't have enough manpower to corner all the doors in every building susceptible of holding classes in their field of studies.
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  #805  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:31 PM
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About the Palace website saying Caroline graduated, I've been thinking about that.
I disagree with posters who are saying that the Palace is lying.
I don't think they would out and out lie, maybe there is a reason they say this.
Perhaps Prince Rainer made an endowment to the University of Paris, and Caroline received an honorary degree.
After all he "paid" for her annulment from Junot.....
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  #806  
Old 08-28-2011, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya Trubetskoy View Post
About the Palace website saying Caroline graduated, I've been thinking about that.
I disagree with posters who are saying that the Palace is lying.
I don't think they would out and out lie, maybe there is a reason they say this.
Perhaps Prince Rainer made an endowment to the University of Paris, and Caroline received an honorary degree.
After all he "paid" for her annulment from Junot.....
Vanya, first I want to say, about your previous post, that you are right when you say that most people go to college to get a degree, but what I wanted to say is that going to college is a life experience that is worth per se, and even if Charlotte doesn't need to work or doesn't need a degree to get a job, they are still a lot of reasons why she may have whished to attend college, and a lot of ways in which it would have been good for her.

About this post: Vanya, the palace website does say that Caroline did not graduate but in a very sibylline way. It says that she got a license in philosophy. That means that she studied for 3 years only. A license in philosophy means that she dropped-out before she graduated but you need to know the french university system to decode it. To graduate she would have needed 4 years.

Also, in Europe a private person never makes endowments to public universities. The Sorbonne is a public university and is financed by national taxes and a small fee payed by the students. If Rainier had made an endowment to the university in exchange for any kind of special treatment for Caroline he probably would have gone to court charged with bribery!
Anyway I don't think it would have been legal for him to make such a donation, but if there was a way, it would have been a financial scandal, even if he hadn't asked for nothing in exchange, . The head of state of a fiscal paradise, home of so many doubious fortunes making an endowment to france biggest university? Definitely no!
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  #807  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:01 PM
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To be honest I never looked this up I was only going by what I read on other posts that said The Palace says she graduated,
I'll look it up myself.
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  #808  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
I know the topic is getting old, but I hope you don't mind if I add my two cents about Caroline and Charlotte's education.

Caroline first.
I wouldn't trust much any Monaco Palace source. Ruling families all around europe have been known not to lie, but to embelish their families (specially political families) curriculae. In Spain, there has been a recent case with princess Letizia and her studies. Some things were truth, some others weren't.
French university system (before the recent european reform) is very convenient for such a trick, because to propely finish your studies (to get what I believe in the US would be considered a bachelor degreee) you have to study 4 years and then you get a maîtrise. The trick is that after only 2 years you get a middle title called a "DEUG", which is little more than a name (it's more or less equivalent to freshman and sophomore years in the us), and after 3 years you get a "license" (that would be junior year in the US I believe), but those are void titles (well they have certain academic value, is long to explain but they are mainly an empty title who doesn't mean you finished your basic university degree).
My point is that you can say that Caroline got a license on philisophy at the Sorbonne, and to someone from abroad it may sound as if she finished her studies, but a french student knows that she did not, because to complete the philosophy course you had to study 4 years and get your maîtrise, if you didn't you're still an undergraduate who left before her senior year.

(wow, my postss are longer and longer lately)
I really have no idea whether Caroline finished her studies or not. I doubt it though. Not because I think she is not clever enough (every body with an average intelligence can get a maîtrisee in Philosophy at Paris IV) but because of her biography. The Palais says she got a license. If she did, she didn't finish her studies, she dropped after her junior year.
Caroline married Junot in 1978, only 3 years after starting the university. I don't know much of her life back then, but somehow I don't see her going to the Sorbonne classroom everyday after her marriage.

Is she an intellectual? Is she not? We probably don't even agree about what we consider and intelllectual. But apparently she does consider herself as one.
I don't even remember if I read it on paper or on the internet but there was a very interesting piece about Caroline and Ernst in the spanish press a couple of years ago. I'm sorry I can't provide more clues, I don't remember where I read it, but it was a pice where they also told the story of a dinner out of Caroline and Ersnt, with a group of friends. They were in Germany or Austria (again I don't remember properly) and it was very hot, and the windows were closed and they couldn't be opened from the inside and Ernst losed his temper, grabbed a bottle and shattered a window pane. Maybe some of you will remember the piece by that story.
In any case it was interesting because the journalist talked to some of Ernst and Caroliine friends and ex-friends people who knew caroline 1st hand.
I remember there was one woman who didn't like Caroline at all. She was obviously resentful because of something so, I would take her words with a grain of salt, when you are angry with someone you are not the most fair of judges, but I remember 2 things she said about Caroline:
-that she was someone who was very nice and pleasant anf friendly with people and then she suddenly gets tired of people and she forgives them and ignores friends.
-that she liked to think of herself as an "intellectual", someone who though was above thee intelligence and frivolity of some of her aquaintances.

This woman was obviously resentful so I don't know how fair these comments are, but even if she tries to put caroline under an ugly light, it is ovbious that caroline cares about culture, and arts, and such and eiher she is, or she thinks she is or she tries to be considered an intellectual
I agree with trepstrep on this!
I just looked up Caroline's bio on the Palace website. It starts off with Caroline's education, a little odd in itself, my first impression anyway.
in english it says she graduated from what the eqv would be for high school, it then goes on to say she received a diploma in philosophy from the Sorbonne, which for us on the other side of the pond, would mean she graduated. But in french, and full disclosure here my french is lousy,
it says she received her "license", which according to trepstrep's posting above means she DID NOT graduate!
It seems to me that the english bio on the Palace website is misleading!
Most english speaking people, american's in particular would think she graduated with a degree in philosophy, but french and people who know how the french education system works know, according to the above posting, that she did not!
I think my opinion of Caroline has changed (a little bit).
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  #809  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
That would be extremely weird. The french school system doesn't allow you to skip years easily.
Even nowadays if you have a high IQ it is not that easy for the kid to be allowed to jump a year.
But you the palais official site says so aswell. If someone around here had old magazines from 1974-75 we would really know when she did move to Paris.
To this I strongly disagree. I do not know how old you are and how is the french system now but at this period it was possible. I have a friend about 6 years younger than Caroline who got her french baccalaureat at the age of 16 and a half and this because she jump the first primary school year. She was born in december so she finished very young. It was not uncommun at this period to jump a year if you knew well to read and write. Now it is not very possible. So maybe Caroline did the same! She was the doughter of the ruling prince and she is far from being stupid.
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  #810  
Old 08-29-2011, 03:30 AM
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The biography by Roig also states Caroline started university in the 75/76 academic year. It is probable she had got a degree befroe she got married. It is also probable she continued her studies after the divorce.

She never was the hereditary princess. It doesn´t make sense the palace site declares she got a degree if she did not. Besides, many people know the truth and many people could talk if the Grimaldis are lying.

For me intellectual is a big word for both of them, Caroline and Charlotte. They maybe highly cultured and educated, avid readers.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
To this I strongly disagree. I do not know how old you are and how is the french system now but at this period it was possible. I have a friend about 6 years younger than Caroline who got her french baccalaureat at the age of 16 and a half and this because she jump the first primary school year. She was born in december so she finished very young. It was not uncommun at this period to jump a year if you knew well to read and write. Now it is not very possible. So maybe Caroline did the same! She was the doughter of the ruling prince and she is far from being stupid.
Well, I really don't know how the system worked in the 70's. I know that is was very diffficult to jump a year when I was studying (I entered Sorbonne in the 90's) . I know people who jumped a pre-school year, but no one who jumped CE1.
As far as I know people from my generation all entered university the year you were 18 years old (if your birthday was in november, you were 17, but only for a couple of monts).
But maybe things were different back then, I don't know.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
The biography by Roig also states Caroline started university in the 75/76 academic year. It is probable she had got a degree befroe she got married. It is also probable she continued her studies after the divorce.


For me intellectual is a big word for both of them, Caroline and Charlotte. They maybe highly cultured and educated, avid readers.
The official site says that she obtained her baccalaureat at june 1974, she was 17 and half. It makes sense, it let her 4 full academic years till her wedding, june 1978. Technically possible.

I do not think she returned studying after her divorce, it has never said so.

We should not mixing "liking reading books" even serious philosophy books, and studying for years, passing exams, etc etc. It needs a discipline and most of your time doing only this. You can read a book at the beach, or in plane but for exams, you have to stay inside, working a lot, and not spending nights in partying. People are fed up doing this, but it does not mean that they do not have intellectual interests.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:09 AM
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
That would be extremely weird. The french school system doesn't allow you to skip years easily.
Even nowadays if you have a high IQ it is not that easy for the kid to be allowed to jump a year.
But you the palais official site says so aswell. If someone around here had old magazines from 1974-75 we would really know when she did move to Paris.
It's possible and more fluent than you think, I've skipt a year without any pb. You just have to pass the test they propose you to do.
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  #815  
Old 08-29-2011, 12:48 PM
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Charlotte has never claimed to be an intellectual. They asked her what she liked reading and she told them. If she was serious she would have continued her studies. She enjoys reading literature and philosophy and enjoys riding. That's all. It doesn't make her an expert in any of these fields. She just does it for her own enjoyment.

As far as discussing philosophy with others, she can discuss it with PC at any time. She also seems to go to that famous cafe in Paris (can't think of the name) that is chock full of people with similar reading interests. That's probably where she bumps into her professor. Karl Lagerfeld also goes there alot.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:59 PM
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^ You're right, she didn't claim that she was an intellectual. But her interview for Vogue means exactly the same to me. She doesn't say "I'm an intellectual" but she makes a list of her favourite authors, movies, and she choses the most intellectual books and movies in the world, so intellectual that her answers were quite funny, and very clichés. I agree with you that she did it because they asked them to talk about it. But I think that these questions were prepared, because this image of intellectual is too much repeated in medias these days. So, finally, the result is the same: Charlotte didn't say "I'm an intellectual", but her interviews claim it for her.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:38 PM
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Like Princess Caroline said in the Barbara Walters interview, the press builds you up and then they tear you down. I also think they ask her these questions because she refuses to talk about her personal life and her family. They don't know what else to ask her about. I am surprised that haven't asked her more about fashion and ecology.

That raises an interesting subject. What questions would the people on this site like to ask Charlotte? Maybe we can give them some ideas.

I would like to know more about her association with Monaco. Does she speak Monagasque? Is she an employee of the government or Prince Albert? Does she have any government responsiblities besides the obvious ones in the press? eg. is she required to stay up on what is going on in Monaco such as reading reports or attending certain meetings? She is 4th in line. Did she have to go thru any special training as a child ? Since she went to school in France, I would think at a minimum she would have had to learn about Monaco's history and how the government works. I am wondering if she had to learn more about the government than the average Monegasque student? I know Andrea has gone thru special training.
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:52 PM
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Like Princess Caroline said in the Barbara Walters interview, the press builds you up and then they tear you down. I also think they ask her these questions because she refuses to talk about her personal life and her family. They don't know what else to ask her about. I am surprised that haven't asked her more about fashion and ecology.

That raises an interesting subject. What questions would the people on this site like to ask Charlotte? Maybe we can give them some ideas.

I would like to know more about her association with Monaco. Does she speak Monagasque? Is she an employee of the government or Prince Albert? Does she have any government responsiblities besides the obvious ones in the press? eg. is she required to stay up on what is going on in Monaco such as reading reports or attending certain meetings? She is 4th in line. Did she have to go thru any special training as a child ? Since she went to school in France, I would think at a minimum she would have had to learn about Monaco's history and how the government works. I am wondering if she had to learn more about the government than the average Monegasque student? I know Andrea has gone thru special training.

I've never heard that, what special training did he go through?
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Old 08-29-2011, 01:58 PM
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I also read that but only in magazines, never in interviews or official statements.
I don't think it's true.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:53 PM
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Andrea majored in politics at AUP and got a masters at the New School in NYC; similar to the kind of training that PA had. Andrea also did the internship at the Qatar Embassy in Paris. All geared towards a government job. I assume he is working for the government of Monaco in some capacity now.
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