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  #781  
Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 PM
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PC got a license from the Sorbonne. It's in her biography on the Palace website. I believe that Charlotte got a license from the Sorbonne also. It has been in several interviews. If they did not ,the French press would call them on it. The press accuses them of things they did not do. Don't you think they would call them on something like this?It also fits the time frame. Charlotte started at Fenelon in 2004 and would have graduated in 2007. She did 2 internships of 1 year each and started riding in the spring of 2009. A license is the equivalent of a US bachelors degree.
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  #782  
Old 08-27-2011, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
PC got a license from the Sorbonne. It's in her biography on the Palace website. I believe that Charlotte got a license from the Sorbonne also. It has been in several interviews. If they did not ,the French press would call them on it. The press accuses them of things they did not do. Don't you think they would call them on something like this?It also fits the time frame. Charlotte started at Fenelon in 2004 and would have graduated in 2007. She did 2 internships of 1 year each and started riding in the spring of 2009. A license is the equivalent of a US bachelors degree.
Medias said that Charlotte had a degree, but Charlotte herself told Vogue that she gave up after prepa. This means that she stopped studying, which means for me, french ex-student that Charlotte doesn't have her degree: prepa years are considered as part of a license only if the student gets university third year ( = last year of license). Charlotte gave up before accomplishing this 3rd year, so she didn't get her degree.
As Caroline's case is concerned, I don't trust a lot biographies. It's the same for Charlotte's case: we have been thinking for many years that she had her degree, and this is Charlotte who gave us the truth, by revealing the real situation. Medias just make the reality more beautiful and classy to sell more!
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  #783  
Old 08-27-2011, 02:42 PM
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But i could not believe that the official website of the Palace could publish a lie (about PC having a licence), It is a state site! It could not be lying... Imagine if Sorbonne denies!
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  #784  
Old 08-27-2011, 04:05 PM
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Let's not forget she's not the only one who made this choice!
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  #785  
Old 08-27-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
But i could not believe that the official website of the Palace could publish a lie (about PC having a licence), It is a state site! It could not be lying... Imagine if Sorbonne denies!
If it is true, we can imagine that Sorbonne wouldn't deny, because it is a free publicity for the university. Now, in this thread, which name of university is the most quoted? Yale? Oxford? Or Sorbonne?
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  #786  
Old 08-27-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LovelyKate View Post
If it is true, we can imagine that Sorbonne wouldn't deny, because it is a free publicity for the university. Now, in this thread, which name of university is the most quoted? Yale? Oxford? Or Sorbonne?
And what is your source to deny so firmly that PC did get a degree. It´s only your doubt. I wonder why you need to doubt about it. How and why PC, one of the most famous women on earth so such a depictable thing as lie about this. She doesn´t need it. And she is intelligent enough to get a degree in Philosophy and continue studying Children´s Phichology, as she did. We have several sources, the palace and biographies. She had school friends, teachers, principals, and she´s going to lie if so many people know the truth? It would have been a scandal already. It´s ridiculous!
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  #787  
Old 08-27-2011, 06:05 PM
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And what is your source to deny so firmly that PC did get a degree. It´s only your doubt. I wonder why you need to doubt about it. How and why PC, one of the most famous women on earth so such a depictable thing as lie about this. She doesn´t need it. And she is intelligent enough to get a degree in Philosophy and continue studying Children´s Phichology, as she did. We have several sources, the palace and biographies. She had school friends, teachers, principals, and she´s going to lie if so many people know the truth? It would have been a scandal already. It´s ridiculous!
Hey, I don't deny it! I only answered to fandesacs. I wouldn't dare to say anything about PC, I don't know her enough. I just supposed that if (and only if!) she had no degree, Sorbonne wouldn't deny it because the presence of "Sorbonne" on the CV of this prestigious princess is a good publicity for the princess.
I just deny that Charlotte got her degree because of what she said in Vogue interview, that's all.
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  #788  
Old 08-27-2011, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana

And what is your source to deny so firmly that PC did get a degree. It´s only your doubt.
I gave you a source - a 1992 book written by Jill C. Wheeler and published by Abdo - an established, reputable publisher of children's books and educational books. Unless you can provide another source (including authors, date and publisher) I have no reason to believe otherwise. Saying, "oh I read once.. In this one magazine", does not count as a source.

Another point to bring up.. Wouldn't there have been graduation pictures? I mean we even have pictures of Kate Middleton's college graduation and she was still just a girlfriend at that point.

On a completely different note -- has anyone else read 'The Charlotte Casiraghi Fan Club" ? Just curious! I believe it's a pretty recent book-- it's about Charlotte/the Charlotte media phenomenon (available on amazon). They mention these forums in the book!
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  #789  
Old 08-27-2011, 07:57 PM
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I gave you a source - a 1992 book written by Jill C. Wheeler and published by Abdo - an established, reputable publisher of children's books and educational books. Unless you can provide another source (including authors, date and publisher) I have no reason to believe otherwise. Saying, "oh I read once.. In this one magazine", does not count as a source.

Another point to bring up.. Wouldn't there have been graduation pictures? I mean we even have pictures of Kate Middleton's college graduation and she was still just a girlfriend at that point.
I posted the source long ago in this forum. Biography of Princes Caroline by Jose Luis Roig. You do not expect the biography to be online, do you?
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  #790  
Old 08-27-2011, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana

I posted the source long ago in this forum. Biography of Princes Caroline by Jose Luis Roig. You do not expect the biography to be online, do you?
The one I mentioned is available on amazon.com. It is part of a series called "Leading Ladies", but I don't think I have come across the Jose Luis Roig bio before.
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  #791  
Old 08-27-2011, 10:11 PM
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The same Vogue article said Charlotte had a license from the Sorbonne. It also said she did prepa after Sorbonne. She went to Fenelon first and then would have gone to the Sorbonne for her 3rd year. They obviously were all mixed up so I don't think that article is credible regarding her schooling. I think what Charlotte was talking about was not wanting to retake the ENS test.
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  #792  
Old 08-28-2011, 03:32 AM
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I agree that Charlotte is one person who really does NOT have to work a day in her life! and I can't hate her for that, she's extremely lucky and I think she's always presented herself in an appropriate manner- not flashing her wealth around & throwing it in people's faces (Paris Hilton style) and I think that is very admirable.

But this image they want to create is so desperate. If she's soooooo smart, why not put those mental abilities to good use?? Why waste them?? There are many people who have degrees and impressive jobs who don't actually need to work... They choose to do this because they want to remain intellectually engaged and want to contribute their intellectual abilities to the well-being of society. Charlotte must be an ego-maniac if she wants to perpetuate this image of a perfectionist intellectual when theres nothing in her background that can actually prove it..

Why assume that she does not put her mental abilities to good use? Just because she does not live up to a particular academic standard does not mean that she has wasted her mental abilities.

It would be a different issue if there was, say, a televised interview of her and she claimed to have read so and so, and not be able to substantiate any of her claims or come across as ignorant, delusional and arrogant. Or if the article was about philosophy or literature which she said she loves but is unable to give intelligent or significant insights.

But the article as translated in the post by sugarbaby318 (#129) does not really give this impression. Sure, she claims to have a rather voracious reading appetite and a love for philosophy and literature. And I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt. After all, if all her claims were untrue, well that's between her and her conscience. It's not as if I'd stop being interested about her and her family.
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  #793  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:49 PM
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Why assume that she does not put her mental abilities to good use? Just because she does not live up to a particular academic standard does not mean that she has wasted her mental abilities.

It would be a different issue if there was, say, a televised interview of her and she claimed to have read so and so, and not be able to substantiate any of her claims or come across as ignorant, delusional and arrogant. Or if the article was about philosophy or literature which she said she loves but is unable to give intelligent or significant insights.

But the article as translated in the post by sugarbaby318 (#129) does not really give this impression. Sure, she claims to have a rather voracious reading appetite and a love for philosophy and literature. And I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt. After all, if all her claims were untrue, well that's between her and her conscience. It's not as if I'd stop being interested about her and her family.

Anyone can rattle off a reading list... I wouldn't be surprised if she was prepped by a PR person, because that is exactly what a good PR rep would do. Frankly, talk is cheap. Besides the pictures we see of her riding horses, we only ever see pictures of her laying out, going to the beach, chilling on a boat, shopping, going to fashion shows and other trivial things. In addition to that she dropped out of school. To me, she comes off as a lazy slacker. In no way do I believe the public image she attempts to perpetuate.

Especially after that Vogue interview... my advice to her would be... GET A NEW PR REP!!
I thought the same thing after the US Vogue interview where she was questioned about Alex and responded that she could google him. A good PR rep wouldn't have let them use that, or would've established boundaries for the interview from the beginning. Trying to justify dropping out of school by saying she is "such a perfectionist" is like saying you quit a job because you are such a hard worker. LOL
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  #794  
Old 08-28-2011, 03:59 PM
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I feel that all this subject of Char + Caro mental abilities/skills becomes an OBSESSION! And starts to be boring.
We do not know if the press image is true but it is not impossible to be true
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  #795  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:18 PM
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Yes this is getting very boring. To me, it doesn't change my life if Charlotte got a degree or not. SHe can do whatever she wants and certainly she's adult enough to make out what's good for her.

By the way, where is the family this summer??? No pictures at all???
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  #796  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:18 PM
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Sara Palin couldn't name what newspapers she read and she was running for vice president of the US! Charlotte was able to rattle off a number of books and authors. She was a philosophy and literature major. It would be simple for her to do so whether she graduated or not. I doubt a PR person, especially one from Monaco, would go to that much trouble. What would be the point? We already know she's smart and studious from her bac score. You don't go from being smart and studious to dumb and lazy overnite unless you have acquired a mental illness.

I can't believe how cynical some people on this site are. She is like most 20 year olds. She is trying different things to see what she wants to be when she grows up. I'm much older than her and still haven't figured it out.
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  #797  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:21 PM
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I know the topic is getting old, but I hope you don't mind if I add my two cents about Caroline and Charlotte's education.

Caroline first.
I wouldn't trust much any Monaco Palace source. Ruling families all around europe have been known not to lie, but to embelish their families (specially political families) curriculae. In Spain, there has been a recent case with princess Letizia and her studies. Some things were truth, some others weren't.
French university system (before the recent european reform) is very convenient for such a trick, because to propely finish your studies (to get what I believe in the US would be considered a bachelor degreee) you have to study 4 years and then you get a maîtrise. The trick is that after only 2 years you get a middle title called a "DEUG", which is little more than a name (it's more or less equivalent to freshman and sophomore years in the us), and after 3 years you get a "license" (that would be junior year in the US I believe), but those are void titles (well they have certain academic value, is long to explain but they are mainly an empty title who doesn't mean you finished your basic university degree).
My point is that you can say that Caroline got a license on philisophy at the Sorbonne, and to someone from abroad it may sound as if she finished her studies, but a french student knows that she did not, because to complete the philosophy course you had to study 4 years and get your maîtrise, if you didn't you're still an undergraduate who left before her senior year.

(wow, my postss are longer and longer lately)
I really have no idea whether Caroline finished her studies or not. I doubt it though. Not because I think she is not clever enough (every body with an average intelligence can get a maîtrisee in Philosophy at Paris IV) but because of her biography. The Palais says she got a license. If she did, she didn't finish her studies, she dropped after her junior year.
Caroline married Junot in 1978, only 3 years after starting the university. I don't know much of her life back then, but somehow I don't see her going to the Sorbonne classroom everyday after her marriage.

Is she an intellectual? Is she not? We probably don't even agree about what we consider and intelllectual. But apparently she does consider herself as one.
I don't even remember if I read it on paper or on the internet but there was a very interesting piece about Caroline and Ernst in the spanish press a couple of years ago. I'm sorry I can't provide more clues, I don't remember where I read it, but it was a pice where they also told the story of a dinner out of Caroline and Ersnt, with a group of friends. They were in Germany or Austria (again I don't remember properly) and it was very hot, and the windows were closed and they couldn't be opened from the inside and Ernst losed his temper, grabbed a bottle and shattered a window pane. Maybe some of you will remember the piece by that story.
In any case it was interesting because the journalist talked to some of Ernst and Caroliine friends and ex-friends people who knew caroline 1st hand.
I remember there was one woman who didn't like Caroline at all. She was obviously resentful because of something so, I would take her words with a grain of salt, when you are angry with someone you are not the most fair of judges, but I remember 2 things she said about Caroline:
-that she was someone who was very nice and pleasant anf friendly with people and then she suddenly gets tired of people and she forgives them and ignores friends.
-that she liked to think of herself as an "intellectual", someone who though was above thee intelligence and frivolity of some of her aquaintances.

This woman was obviously resentful so I don't know how fair these comments are, but even if she tries to put caroline under an ugly light, it is ovbious that caroline cares about culture, and arts, and such and eiher she is, or she thinks she is or she tries to be considered an intellectual
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  #798  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:46 PM
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I remember having read that Caroline finisched her GCE a level at the age of 17. Consequenly it makes sense to have effected 4 y in sorbonne and marry insummer of her 21y. Personaly ido not strongly believe that she did so the last year time was too tight preparing wedding etc... But it is not impossible.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:03 PM
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Charlotte now!
They are many things we may agree or desagree about but they are 2 things we know for certain:
-she never finished her studies (she's said it herself)
-she got a mention très bien at her bac philo

So, she probably is not the intellectual wonder they are trying to sell, but she certainly is not a slacker and she certainly is not dumb. You don't get a très bien at the bac if you are not either very intellingent or a hard worker, or maybe both at the same time.

She also took a bac philo and took her prépa classes to study philo at the ENS, so I don't think that she is faking at all when she says she loves philosophy, or that she enjoys reading Seneca. Of course she didn't make any deep philosophic considerations! Or maybe she did, and the journalist, wisely, left them out. She was being interviewed for Vogue, not for a high brow intellectual magazine!
I've been critical with Charlotte many times. But if you get a très bien at your bac and afterward you have the project to enter a prestitgious philosophy institution , you certainly are not a slacker and you certainly are interested by intellectual issues, I dont' know how that can be in doubt.

The only problem I see, is the clumsy and corny PR operation that seems to be going on around Charlotte. So much adoration and amazement around her is silly and ridiculous. They talk of her as if she was Einstein reincarnated. They are trying to present her as a freak of nature:
-come see the most brilliant prépa pupil that french teachers can remember!
-come see the amazing teenager who liked better to sort out an old library than going to the beach!
It's like a circus!
And they are making a curious, interesting and probably intelligent young woman who likes to read and loves novels and philosophy look as a pretentious and silly wanabe (Well, maybe it is Charlotte's fault. maybe she is pretentious).

Now, about her un-finished studies.
I totally desagree with the poster who said that the main reason why you go to the university is to get a job. Sadly, more and more people think like this lately.
But I believe that college is much much more. An important experience in the life of a young person, a place where you meet people from diferent backgrounds, where you learn to make choices, to think by yourself, when you study many useless things that will neverthless shape your mind, a period where you lear more things in the corridors, and thee streets around the buildings that in the classroom, but in any case an experience everyone who can afford it should have.

Yes, Charlotte talks about she thought about getting an agrégation. But for god's sake the girl was 18! Everybody makes plans about the things you think you want in the future and then you change your mind. Maybe she would had get it if she had entered the ENS, maybe not, but it is a very valid life plan!

Now, that's totally speculation on my part, but tha'ts what I think about why Charlotte didn't finish he studies:

-She failed the ENS. That probably make her doubt. If she worked so hard and she failed maybe she wasn't so brilliant as everybody had make her believe.

-Her dream was to study and the ENS. Taking a philosophy course at the Sorbonne didn't have the same appeal. At the ENS you are part of the elite, a brilliant future is open to you if you can grab it. At a philosophy course at the Sorbonne? Well, you are a number, one more student among a bunch of losers (I'm being sarcastic here) who will never get a good job and will end as obscure civil servants somewhere. It's not prestigious, it's not shiny.

-Charlotte had been cocooned her whole life. She was used to a personal relationship with her teachers. Yes, she went to a public school at Fontainebleau, but the public school belonging to Charlotte neighbourhood was frequented by wealthy kids, the sons and daughters of prestigious and high bourgeoisy family, it wasn't any public school. At prépa the courses are still very personal and also most people who get to the prépa schools still come from well-off families. But if you want to continue your studies you can't study philosophy in a private university. No Bocconi or Université Americaine for Philosophers.
She had to enter the real public system, real life, for the first time in her life:
At the Sorbonne she was a number. Nobody cared about her, she had to find her way on her own, and many classes were monotonous and boring. Her career probably lost then part of its appeal.

-Let's not forget: she met Alex! No more, close study-type boyfriend. But long distance boyfriend in London. No doubt that was a distraction, or at least something that atracted her out of Paris.

-Most people won't have a chance to have really interesting job experiences at 20, they don't have the contacts and will only get boring jobs as helpers and trainees. You certainly don't get to write an editorial for The Indepent at 20 years old and without any kind of studies! But for her, it was different.
Charlotte was discouraged with her studies and disappointed. She had signed for a brilliant career of normalienne (because the sycophants around her had made her believe that she was special) and she was faced with a boring and grey career as a high school teacher after many years of studying and taking public exams.
But she had other interests. Publishing interested her. And she had contacts. Brilliant contacts who would allow her to start from the top again and to move to London. And so she did.

I don't have trouble understanding of finding likely reason for her dropping her studies. I just don't think a perfectionist would do it. That's the thing I refuse to buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
I remember having read that Caroline finisched her GCE a level at the age of 17. Consequenly it makes sense to have effected 4 y in sorbonne and marry insummer of her 21y. Personaly ido not strongly believe that she did so the last year time was too tight preparing wedding etc... But it is not impossible.
That would be extremely weird. The french school system doesn't allow you to skip years easily.
Even nowadays if you have a high IQ it is not that easy for the kid to be allowed to jump a year.
But you the palais official site says so aswell. If someone around here had old magazines from 1974-75 we would really know when she did move to Paris.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:05 PM
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refusing to pose on Marie Antoinette's bed for Vogue Paris is fantastic! If only some starlets in Hollywood had the same self-respect and tenacity to turn down equally stupid suggestions meant to exploit.
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