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  #561  
Old 08-25-2007, 08:57 PM
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I visit this thread not too often. I heard about a year ago that Andrea studies in Paris in International University, and that it was American school. he Andrea moved to N.Y. to be with Tatiana. What is he doing now?
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  #562  
Old 08-25-2007, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
To me, you are making perfect sense, Grace. I understand, or think I understand, what you are trying to say. Is it possible that the exams for Sciences Po and the Grand Écoles put more emphasis on the nitty gritty (that is, the technicalities, the factual, the expert and most "accepted" theories) for the reason that their numbers are so crunched? What I mean is, perhaps they have to eliminate students who don't meet the technical standards because they only have so many number of places at these schools?
In the US, we have thousands of massive universities so that anyone (I do mean anyone) can study in them, and there are no limits. The competition is very low in the US. I think maybe the competition is so much higher in France because the # of schools is lower and each institution wants to be sure they give their places to the very best. Maybe i'm wrong. It's just a thought.
Actually that not true in the US for top schools like Harvard, MIT Stanford, Princeton etc. for every 10,000 applications they will take less than 1,000 and the smaller schools like Princeton much less. So the competition is very very tight depending on the level you are applying at. Right now the ivy leagues get a lot of applications from foreign students as well which puts more pressure on the US students who apply. The back-up schools to the ivy leagues are now just as tough to get into. Science PA and the GE are for very specific majors and their standards are therefore narrower in who they accept and who they keep. The same can be said at the graduate school level in the US. In most Grad schools in the US depending on your area of expertise, if you get below the Grade of B or 3.0 in any course it is considered an F or failure and if your total grade point ave. falls below at 3.0 you are asked to leave. So again the higher the level the tighter the requirements.
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  #563  
Old 08-25-2007, 11:09 PM
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Hibou, none of the US universities are as competitive as the French schools. None. Not at any level.
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  #564  
Old 08-26-2007, 12:34 AM
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CasiraghiTrio, it's best worded thus: All too many of our universities fail to be competitive. I conducted research work at one U which caused many of my students to suffer physical exhaustion, and I think that faculty probably ate their students at another U listed above!

Dave
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  #565  
Old 08-26-2007, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
To me, you are making perfect sense, Grace. I understand, or think I understand, what you are trying to say. Is it possible that the exams for Sciences Po and the Grand Écoles put more emphasis on the nitty gritty (that is, the technicalities, the factual, the expert and most "accepted" theories) for the reason that their numbers are so crunched? What I mean is, perhaps they have to eliminate students who don't meet the technical standards because they only have so many number of places at these schools?
In the US, we have thousands of massive universities so that anyone (I do mean anyone) can study in them, and there are no limits. The competition is very low in the US. I think maybe the competition is so much higher in France because the # of schools is lower and each institution wants to be sure they give their places to the very best. Maybe i'm wrong. It's just a thought.
I'm glad I managed to explain what I meant. Yes, part of the emphasis on learning is due to the very competitive environment students have to live in while taking courses, part is due to how hard it is to get in, but part in my opinion is a basic cultural difference between more rigid systems (in this Italy is similar to France) and Anglo-Saxon ones; in my humble opinion both have advantages and dysadvantage, and even though I really appreciate the British/American way, maybe in some countries (again like Italy) they are now putting so much stress on the fact that you "study to get a job" trying to mimic those systems, that they are forgetting the importance of the learning per se (you know enlarging horizons, opening minds yadda yadda yadda).

Probably back in the 70s, being in her rebellious phase, CAro found the agitated Sorbonne, with students protests and so on, more appealing than a school of the establishment...and she probably prefered philosophic speculation...plus she failed the test, but I think she might have stayed at Science Po anyway (which btw is a great school, despite the critical remarks we're making).
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  #566  
Old 08-26-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dw2108 View Post
CasiraghiTrio, it's best worded thus: All too many of our universities fail to be competitive. I conducted research work at one U which caused many of my students to suffer physical exhaustion, and I think that faculty probably ate their students at another U listed above!

Dave
Actually, in the US, as I think on it again, Hibou has a point because the graduate schools are probably the most competitive institutions in the US. But my experience and the experiences of my acquaintances has shown me that undergraduate competition in the US is almost nill, at most schools, Ivy League or Tier 2 or whatever! It's so easy to get acceptance into a US undergrad school and if you don't get into one, you have like ten to back you up.
But even the US grad schools don't compare to the French system. I believe France has arguably the most or one of the most competitive education in the world, perhaps neck to neck with Italy.
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  #567  
Old 08-26-2007, 10:20 AM
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In terms of work, commitment, single-mindedness, and a healthy dose of competitiveness, I'd say the grandes écoles are the equivalent of law school and medical school.

Perhaps one difference is that the preparation focuses on broad knowledge and culture (being a cultivé(e) person is the highest compliment you can give to someone in France), and, and that's different from the U.S scale of values, it is more prestigious to be an alumnus from a grande école than a physician or lawyer (I am speaking in general terms here, obviously). A joke (and it is not really a joke, and it is sexist too) is that parents dream of their daughter marrying a Polytechnicien or an Enarque, not a doctor or lawyer. It is the degree that counts, (acquired very early in life, in your very early twenties) not the actual social position. All of this could be qualified ad infinitum, but that's the general idea.
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  #568  
Old 09-11-2007, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mizzy2006 View Post
CasiraghiTrio, seriously I'm not really aware abt the system in France's universities. You did mention she already has a degree, but did she graduate?.. I mean maybe a ceremony. But if she continues her study this fall, what's next (which certificates)? ..
I'm not sure what she will do. I await the news as eagerly as you. I think (but again, could well be wrong) that in France there are not any ceremonies for university level degrees as in the US and Britain and some other places.
But Charlotte would certainly now have the License of Philosophy from Sorbonne IV. I think she could do one of many things. If she wants further education, possibly:
1) She could go for a Master's at Sorbonne IV
2) She could go to a Grand École (maybe Normale Supérieure or like iloveroyals has suggested, maybe Nationale d'Administration).
3) She could study abroad as her brothers and so many friends have done.
Her License degree gives her completion of undergraduate work, so she could go into a Master's program anywhere in the world, I imagine.
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  #569  
Old 09-11-2007, 01:08 PM
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Unfortunately, there is no ceremony in France for graduation. Unless things have changed, they give you a paltry little piece of paper (OK, I exaggerate a little) that as an original of your degree already looks like a badly fake copy. (That, I know: I've had problems convincing universities here that I did get the degrees I claimed I had earned, just because of the cheap looking document it's printed on. And from what I understand, the universities in France aren't getting any richer. But that's beside the point, except in how they could allocate a higher budget for the document itself. It's nothing you'd want to frame and display in your office.)

The most wealthy and educated among the French now (even if they lean toward left-oriented politics) tend to send their children to an American university for at least a year, usually post-graduate, not necessarily so, and usually of the MBA type. American summer camps focusing on a field of study (often performance-oriented: music, theather) or arts (including creative writing) are also popular for resume-conscious parents. It's almost the opposite of a few decades ago, although of course American parents still send their children abroad for further studies, particularly in the arts. (Remember "Father of the Bride" ?)
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  #570  
Old 09-11-2007, 01:39 PM
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This is just a summary and rough outline of the Casiraghis' education. It includes links to the schools, if available.

Andrea began his schooling in Monaco.
Charlotte and Pierre certainly began in Saint Rémy de Provence at the école maternelle (nursery school) and the "école de la republique" (the local state or public school).

Andrea
1) Lycée Jeanne d'Arc de St Aspais, near Fontainebleau
2) International School of Paris
3) University in Montreal (maybe McGill, but no one seems to know for sure)
4) American University of Paris

Charlotte
1) Lycée François 1er de Fontainebleau
2) Lycée Fenelon in Paris
3) University of Paris-Sorbonne IV

Pierre
1) Lycée François 1er de Fontainebleau
2) University Bocconi in Milan

Education of Stefano Casiraghi (father)
1) Collegio Gallio
2) University Bocconi in Milan

Education of HRH The Princess of Hanover (mother)
1) St Mary's School in Ascot, Berkshire
2) École de Sciences Politiques (Sciences Po) in Paris
3) La Sorbonne

Education of HSH the late Prince Rainier (maternal grandfather)
1) Summerfields Preparatory School at St. Leonards-on-Sea in England
2) Stowe School in Buckingham, England
3) Le Rosey in Switzerland
4) Université de Montpellier, faculté de Montpellier
5) École de Sciences Politiques (Sciences Po) in Paris

Education of Prince Albert (maternal uncle)
1) Lycée Albert 1er de Monaco
2) Amherst College, Massachusetts

Education of Princess Stephanie (maternal aunt)
1) Dames de Saint-Maur, Monaco (convent school)
2) Ecole & Collège Dupanloup - Boulogne Billancourt outside of Paris

Friends' education
American Intercontinental University, London (Tatiana - in 2004)
The New School in Manhattan (Tatiana - more recently)
New York University (their stepbrothers, also maybe Eugenie Niarchos)
HEC Paris (Juliette Maillot)
University Paris Dauphine (Valentine Pozzo di Borgo)
University Paris II (Felix Winckler)
L'Hôtellerie Restauration - Profession : Restaurant, Hôtel et Café (Cecile Winckler)
International School of Hannover Region (Pierre's buddy Max Peter)
University of Innsbruck (Hubertus Herring-Frankensdorf)
London School of Economics and Political Science (Will Alexander, a friend of Charlotte and stepbrothers)
Malvern College (stepbrothers' English public school, or "high school")
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  #571  
Old 09-11-2007, 03:06 PM
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Whoah ! I am impressed ! You are the best for this kind of knowledge and research ! Thanks a million, I am sure we all appreciate it !
(Are you a teacher by any chance ?) You always make things so clear !
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  #572  
Old 09-11-2007, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Whoah ! I am impressed ! You are the best for this kind of knowledge and research ! Thanks a million, I am sure we all appreciate it !
(Are you a teacher by any chance ?) You always make things so clear !
Librarian/researcher/writer.
You're welcome a million. It was no problem. I just had a lotta too much time on my hands.

Does anyone know which Sorbonne institution Princess Caroline has her license from?

Check my last post for a rather expanded "rough outline". I made some edits to add schools for the Casiraghis' family, friends, etc.
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  #573  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:04 AM
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Oh...Thanks for answering my question Casiraghi Trio and Iloveroyals.. different country, different system.. hmmm
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  #574  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:09 AM
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thank you so much CT for that.it is so well organised.i'm very impressed by Maillot's HEC studies!
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  #575  
Old 09-12-2007, 09:44 PM
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Oh hold on, I"m a bit confused, maybe CasiraghiTrio you can answer since you mentioned it. Charlotte has already completed her undergrad years? I'm assuming in France its the standard 4yrs or did she skip a year?
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  #576  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:06 PM
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In accordance to our previous conversation in the pictures posts, my comment about people from old money did not come from personal opinion but rather through observation. People from wealthy families definitely have more opportunities than the rest of us. So yes they can embark on several things but their reaction and their thoughts will differ from ours. What we get from donating money that we worked for is different than donating money that you inherited.
In regards to the Casiraghis I do wish they would do more, because they have the capability-both financially and emotionally- and seem to have the mental capacity to do so as well. However, {this is where my 'observation lies} I find that they don't do enough, especially Charlotte. It's pretty disappointing that out of her siblings she hasn't participated in any charitable event. This critique may be unsubstantiated, but had this been brought up 2 years ago I would've disagreed and thought that they don't want the spotlight and want to live as private citizens. But when you see them attending parties for famed photographers or designers (where media outlets will definitly be present) that argument cannot be used anymore.
Maybe this year she will do something to this effect if she is in fact done with school and obviously will have more time on her hands. We shall wait and see!
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  #577  
Old 09-12-2007, 10:13 PM
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You made very good observations, talula. In answer to your question about Charlotte's degree, the License at Sorbonne IV only is three years. I think three years is pretty much standard at all French universities, but at Sorbonne it is certainly three years for a License. Then for a Master's, I think three more years, though I don't remember. I'll have to look at the Sorbonne IV site again.
For Pierre at Bocconi, he is enrolled in a two-year degree program. If I remember rightly, he began in September 2006.
For Andrea, he's so much more mysterious. When did he take the BAC exam? Summer 2002? He would have turned 18 that summer. He studied at International School of Paris, I assume for one year. During this time, he dated Caroline von Stauffenberg and bought her a baby pig. Then in summer 2003, he and Caroline broke up and he had his fun with the Spanish actress Maria Jurado. Then we saw him back in Paris for a long while. He began dating Tatiana, art history student at AIC London, in 2004.
I am assuming now he did two years at ISP, then studied for 2004-2005 at a university in Montreal, maybe McGill, and returned to Paris to take up studies at AUP. Meanwhile, he takes his summer breaks in the Balearic isles and occasionally goes on some AMADE mission or conference somewhere.

Tentative theoretical outline for Andrea's post-lycée studies
* Two years at ISP
* One year at Montreal
* Two years at AUP (2005-2006, 2006-2007)
That theory would put him finishing up his degree just in time to launch the Motrice Foundation in June.

But what about Theory 2?
* One year at ISP (to study for the BAC)
* A kind of "gap" year
* One year at Montreal
* Two years at AUP (finishing up a three-year degree)
* Launch Motrice
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  #578  
Old 09-13-2007, 09:14 PM
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Thanks CT for answering my question! It's interesting to learn about different academic structures throughout!
I guess you are right about Andrea's academic life being more 'mysterious'. If he was here at McGill then he must be a smart student because McGill is a very good and tough university!
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  #579  
Old 09-14-2007, 07:18 AM
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I wonder if Andrea failed his Bac the first time. I have heard this rumor before, and it seems possible because the Bac is a very difficult exam. I have taken a cursory glance around the ISP site and it looks like a place to study for the Bac, though they have multiple programs. If this is indeed the case, he must have begun his university studies in Montreal, and finished up at AUP.
There are many places he might have studied in Montreal. See Wikipedia: Montreal: Education. I didn't know before that Montreal has an École Nationale d'Administration.
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  #580  
Old 09-15-2007, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
You made very good observations, talula. In answer to your question about Charlotte's degree, the License at Sorbonne IV only is three years. I think three years is pretty much standard at all French universities, but at Sorbonne it is certainly three years for a License.
Well, I'll try to explain this little mess.
Charlotte DOES NOT HAVE a real valid degree. She hasn't finished her undergraduate studies. At the Sorbonne as in any other french university you get your License after 3 years, yes, but it is not the final undergraduate degree and it really does not mean anything. It's just a name, mostly. (well it can give you a certain advantage over a candidate who did less year of studies if you want to become a civil servant in the future and stuff like that but is not really relevant in this case).
What I mean is if you study biology, chemestry, history, sociology, economy and want to work in a company as such, or if you want to become a teacher, whatever, YOU WILL NEED 4 YEARS OF UNIVERSITY STUDIES.
This is called a MAÎTRISE. You get the maîtrise after 4 years of universitary studies, in sorbonne as everywhere else.
So, Charlotte has completed 3 years. She's got a Lisence but that's just a name with no real value. You don't even get a diploma (not even a crappy one) after the Lisence. In order to be considered an economist, a chemist or whatever you need a MAÎTRISE, so Charlotte needs another academic year to finish her undergraduate studies.
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