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  #541  
Old 08-16-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
Thanks for posting this. I can read French fairly well, but what does "en khagne" mean?? I have attempted to look this term up and can't find it anywhere. It's driving me nuts. Thanks to anyone who can help me out with a translation!
Khagne and hypokhagne... well, in France when you have a secondary school examination qualifying for entry to university and if you are agreed by some school you can prepare examination to entrey very high "universities/schools" 1st year khagne and if you are agreed 2nd year hypokhagne. and then "Ecole Normale Supérieure" /"agrégation its a competitive examination for teaching in lycées and universities. khagne/hypokhagne: studies: philosophy,latin,ancient greec,
literature... I have to say that even few teenagers are in khagne, less are in hypokhagne and only a few of them are in Normale Supérieure. S de Beauvoir, Sartre, L Sedar shengor, g Pompidou, were in Ecole Normale Supérieure...
Charlotte was only in khagne.
If some poster who has a better english wants to explain...
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  #542  
Old 08-16-2007, 07:15 PM
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Actually, it is the other way. 1st year is hypokhagne and 2nd year is khagne. Charlotte did both and took the ENS examination, but she failed as well as Felix.
Apparently she enroled in the sorbonne last year and is studying philosophie right now.
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  #543  
Old 08-16-2007, 07:48 PM
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Casiraghi trio has explained everything very clearly but I would like to add that in order to consider your universitary studies finished you need the 4 years degree (maîtrise). It's true that after 3 years you get a license but it does nor really mean anything. Normal univeritary studies last 4 years, and afterwards you can prepare an agrégation, start you profesional live or start a PhD.
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  #544  
Old 08-16-2007, 11:06 PM
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Charlotte is all grown up now, I hope she settles down into academic or work life besides jet setting with the usual rich and spoiled crowd.
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  #545  
Old 08-17-2007, 10:59 AM
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Yeah...when is she supposed to enrol back to her uni? And I'm still curious abt her internship program with the publishing house....somehow I really hope its true..
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  #546  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:37 AM
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khagne

CaliforniaDreamin,I'm French so I may help you!
"khagne" is a specific word that means second year of "classe préparatoire aux grandes écoles" (prépa), what charlotte did after high school, it's very hard!!
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  #547  
Old 08-20-2007, 10:37 PM
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it's what everyone does here in Peru and maybe latin america, after the high school we go to that "prepa" préparatoire it's just before we get into the university or collage cuz her we have to take an exam and that's how we get into the university
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  #548  
Old 08-21-2007, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Char_Lou View Post
it's what everyone does here in Peru and maybe latin america, after the high school we go to that "prepa" préparatoire it's just before we get into the university or collage cuz her we have to take an exam and that's how we get into the university
No, it's not the same.
In France you don't go to any preparatory school to just go into university. The Bac is enought and Charlotte had a "très bien". Most people just pass their bac in june/july and get into the university next october, that's all.
In Charlotte case she was tryig to get into the ENS. It's long to explain but you can find information about it in this thread.
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  #549  
Old 08-21-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Diplomatic studies are done through the ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration) which also requires a competitive exam to get in, a very hard one that emphasizes general culture and economics, finance, management, history, current events. You usually get in after passing the first year of Sciences Politiques (Sciences Po), which Caroline failed when she attempted it. It's a lot of memorization and non stop studying. But then you can end up President of France (not that Charlotte would want to...)
This whole post (#538) was fascinatingly and well said, iloveroyals. I have a question specifically about this part quoted above. I think Prince Rainier studied at Sciences Po, is this right? What exactly did Caroline fail, to enter Sciences Po or the end-of-term exams of Sciences Po? I assume you mean the school and not just the subject, i.e. political science at Sorbonne?
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  #550  
Old 08-24-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
This whole post (#538) was fascinatingly and well said, iloveroyals. I have a question specifically about this part quoted above. I think Prince Rainier studied at Sciences Po, is this right? What exactly did Caroline fail, to enter Sciences Po or the end-of-term exams of Sciences Po? I assume you mean the school and not just the subject, i.e. political science at Sorbonne?

Caroline failed the end-of term exams of Sciences Po (the school, not the subject). It was the year she was heavily into partying and dating Philippe. She later explained that she had failed because all that was required was memorizing facts, not critical thinking. I have never studied at Sciences Po so I wouldn't know. I did have a brilliant friend who studied there (and failed her end of year exams too, a lot of people fail at exams in France as you can see !) and also complained that you had to memorize an immense quantity of facts, but I don't remember if she said anything about critical thinking skills.
I also remember reading that Caroline's teachers thought she made brilliant comments in class.

Now, for "la petite histoire", meaning, a little bit of anecdoctal gossip, the magazine Point de Vue had prematurely announced that Caroline had passed her end of year exams, and students from the school wrote to the magazine to say it was false. So they had to write a correction in their next issue. I guess they have been more careful since then, but Point de Vue was always a great believer in Caroline's powers.

I think you are right about Rainier having been through Sciences Po.
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  #551  
Old 08-24-2007, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
Caroline failed the end-of term exams of Sciences Po (the school, not the subject). It was the year she was heavily into partying and dating Philippe. She later explained that she had failed because all that was required was memorizing facts, not critical thinking. I have never studied at Sciences Po so I wouldn't know. I did have a brilliant friend who studied there (and failed her end of year exams too, a lot of people fail at exams in France as you can see !) and also complained that you had to memorize an immense quantity of facts, but I don't remember if she said anything about critical thinking skills.
I also remember reading that Caroline's teachers thought she made brilliant comments in class.
Yes, well, like you indicated, France's academic institutions are typically very, very challenging. I think it's always been clear that Caroline is a brilliant woman, but like you said, it's very possible she was partying a bit too much especially in the Junot days.
Quote:
Now, for "la petite histoire", meaning, a little bit of anecdoctal gossip, the magazine Point de Vue had prematurely announced that Caroline had passed her end of year exams, and students from the school wrote to the magazine to say it was false. So they had to write a correction in their next issue. I guess they have been more careful since then, but Point de Vue was always a great believer in Caroline's powers.
I think they probably did not imagine in their wildest dreams that Caroline wouldn't pass the exams. I myself had a great belief in Charlotte's powers to get into ENS!
Quote:
I think you are right about Rainier having been through Sciences Po.
I thought I remembered reading this fact somewhere. I guess Rainier hoped at least one of his children might follow a similar course, but Albert went transatlantic instead and Stephanie..... well, Stephanie has always had her own ideas! Bless her!
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  #552  
Old 08-24-2007, 08:11 PM
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I just checked in my biographies of Prince Rainier and they all say the same thing : he got his B.A at the University of Montpellier and then did one year of additional studies at Sciences Po in Paris. (ENA didn't yet exist in 1944 when he returned to Monaco at the age of 21, so he couldn't have wanted to study there.) But you're right, he would have wanted one of his children to follow a similar course.

I have always admired Charlotte (and Caroline's decision, if she had any input) for wanting to study for ENS or any other grande école for that matter. It shows ambition, love of learning and culture, an ability to face competition, a healthy awareness of one's abilities. Not that my respect for Stephanie is any less, she followed the creative route, more suited to her temperament. I guess I want to say that with all their privileges, choosing the hard way is admirable.
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  #553  
Old 08-24-2007, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iloveroyals View Post
I just checked in my biographies of Prince Rainier and they all say the same thing : he got his B.A at the University of Montpellier and then did one year of additional studies at Sciences Po in Paris. (ENA didn't yet exist in 1944 when he returned to Monaco at the age of 21, so he couldn't have wanted to study there.) But you're right, he would have wanted one of his children to follow a similar course.

I have always admired Charlotte (and Caroline's decision, if she had any input) for wanting to study for ENS or any other grande école for that matter. It shows ambition, love of learning and culture, an ability to face competition, a healthy awareness of one's abilities. Not that my respect for Stephanie is any less, she followed the creative route, more suited to her temperament. I guess I want to say that with all their privileges, choosing the hard way is admirable.
Definitely. One cannot just admire one course and then curse the other one. They all have different values. What is good for one person is boring or even bad for another person. Prince Albert was more interested in sports and Princess Stephanie wanted to try the different performing and creative arts. Nothing wrong there. Look at Caroline, Albert, and Stephanie today, at how differently they have all chosen and done, and all of them are successful in their own areas; and where they have "failed" it seems they have turned their "failures" into successes after all.
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  #554  
Old 08-25-2007, 03:29 AM
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So the exam Caro failed is the one to be admitted at ENA? If so she could have stayed at Science Po any way? I think the main problem she had was with the subjects, that at the time she probably considered not abstract enough given she then changed to Philosophy (less facts and more ideal speculation) and was reportedly into esistentialism.
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  #555  
Old 08-25-2007, 07:55 AM
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So the exam Caro failed is the one to be admitted at ENA? If so she could have stayed at Science Po any way? I think the main problem she had was with the subjects, that at the time she probably considered not abstract enough given she then changed to Philosophy (less facts and more ideal speculation) and was reportedly into esistentialism.
I think iloveroyals said the exams were the end-of-term exams for the Sciences Po first year. I suppose she might have stayed and just taken the classes again, but as you say, she switched to something more suited to her interests. Sorbonne was probably a much better place for her preference of study than Sciences Po. But it's impressive that she tried for it. The real "failures" are only those who fail to try things, after all.
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  #556  
Old 08-25-2007, 12:32 PM
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From : "Contemporary France : Politics and Society since 1945":
"The ENA (Ecole Nationale d'Administration), was founded in 1945. In this case only, the classes préparatoires take place, not as for the others, in the fifty most important lycées in Paris and the provinces, but at the Institut d'Etudes Politiques, and many graduates from other grandes écoles proceed from there to ENA."
From :"Sixty Million Frenchmen can't be wrong" : "The students who make it to ENA are generally those who studied at the true-blue Scinces Po in Paris."
"One thing all écoles have in common is the concours (a competitive examination for a limited number of places). Only one in ten candidates gets admitted.(...) Students who attend the prépa must assimilate high doses of maths, philosophy, histroy or science -- whatever subjects their school of choice requires. The prépa includes up to 8 hours of classes per week, per subject. Most students take 3 or 4 courses simultaneously. (...)Students are trained to be quick, precise, and to get it right. They have to learn to work efficiently and reason well."
"The key word in the concept is grande. The explicit function of the grandes écoles is to create France's élite class."

There is a lot more about the grandes écoles, I don't know if by providing a link to a couple of pages I scanned would infringe copyright. It's very interesting, and explains why an intellectual and culturally-oriented family like Caroline's would want her children to attend a grande école.
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  #557  
Old 08-25-2007, 12:37 PM
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I do hope Charlotte continues with some kind of academic study, whether ENS or ENA I don't care, because oh what a waste of a good mind to become a silly socialite!
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  #558  
Old 08-25-2007, 01:05 PM
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Yeah...absolutely...she needs more than title and pretty face since she did show some talent in her study earlier. I would definitely say she has brain... if she is so attached to his bf, then she can continue in England... but of course even Princess Madeliene couldnt stand the paps, not sure abt her.... maybe she can move to NY and stay with her bro... who knows..but thats quite far from England... which I dont think she will do that for the time beings.But yeah...continue your study, Charlotte!!!
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  #559  
Old 08-25-2007, 04:42 PM
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So the course Caro took at Science Po is explicitly preparatory for ENA? Not part of Science Po normal courses? Cause otherwise, after failing ENA admission, she could have stayed at Science Po whose degree is very very prestigious, even if not at ENA level. I still think at that point she was mainly interested in other subjects...
Of course if one is really interested can also attend ENA as a second degree, but admission is alwasy very tough (the toughest in France I believe). Well, knowing the majority of French Presidents and Prime Ministers graduated there explains a lot.
I have to say a friend of mine who studied at Science Po found it quite hard and very rigid with high competition between students...so Caro might have been right regards free-thinking, especially if compared to the revolutionary, modern ideas which dominated Sorbonne in the late 60s and 70s. My friend has a British background and found a great difference between critical thinking encouragement at British top Universities and Science Po where it is more restrained (not that they suppress freethinking, but they tend to educate and direct the students more, in accordance with established and dominating theories and ideas; I'm sorry, I'm not explaining this well, I'd sum it up saying they put more stress on students acquiring knowledge than on encouraging them to personally reelaborate it thinking out of the box).
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  #560  
Old 08-25-2007, 07:20 PM
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To me, you are making perfect sense, Grace. I understand, or think I understand, what you are trying to say. Is it possible that the exams for Sciences Po and the Grand Écoles put more emphasis on the nitty gritty (that is, the technicalities, the factual, the expert and most "accepted" theories) for the reason that their numbers are so crunched? What I mean is, perhaps they have to eliminate students who don't meet the technical standards because they only have so many number of places at these schools?
In the US, we have thousands of massive universities so that anyone (I do mean anyone) can study in them, and there are no limits. The competition is very low in the US. I think maybe the competition is so much higher in France because the # of schools is lower and each institution wants to be sure they give their places to the very best. Maybe i'm wrong. It's just a thought.
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