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  #141  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri
Why they should marry now? Louis and Tessy married when Gabriel was 6 months old, so why Andrea and Tatiana cannot do the same?
They can ...assuming they actually get to it. Life with a new baby is very stressful. And there is clearly something going on with young Andrea. What if he has a Heath Ledger young death. With Albert not having, as of now, a legitimate heir, I would thing it would be a matter of concern for the principality. I am also sure that Charlene is ready to spit too. It is so much easier to get pregnant at Tatiana's age .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia

Firstly, I wish Andrea a long and happy life, but should a tragedy strike and he passed away before marrying Tatiana, I doubt that would keep the child from ascending to the Monegasque Throne one day (provided Albert has no children, of course). Given the couple's expressed wish to marry (and thus legitimise the child), in all probability an Act would be passed legitimising him and granting succession rights.

Secondly, I think one of the reasons Andrea and Tatiana decided to marry after their child is born is because if they married right now, it would be too much like shotgun wedding. Whereas by marrying after the birth of their child, they are sending a clear singly their union will take place because they want to, not because they were forced by circumstances.

And thirdly, a decision like that should be made only by the couple and for reasons they see fit. They made the choice to marry after their child is born and that should be respected.
Well it was a shotgun wedding, so to speak, when Andrea's parents married. I believe Caroline was in her second trimester with Andrea, was she not?
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  #142  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:20 PM
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But it wasn't a forced marriage, she was really in love with Stefano and he with her; they would have married even if Caroline hadn't get pregnant. I am sure it's the same with their firstborn and his sweetheart, giving that they have been together for seven years.
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  #143  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:54 PM
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Gee, you make it sound like Andrea already has a death sentence hanging over his head.
I'm sure Andrea and Tatiana will get around to marry each other, but I quite frankly understand why they wont do it right now with Tatiana being that pregnant. I agree that it would have been nice if the boy had been born after they had married, but it's not the case right now and it sure would seem too hasty if they got married right before he's born.
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  #144  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:21 PM
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They could have the civil ceremony now, but in the last few years the Catholic Church has refused a Catholic marriage until after a baby is born. The reason being it should not be a 'shotgun' wedding. It should be a wanted choice. Too many people were asking for annulments on the grounds they were forced to marry.
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  #145  
Old 11-15-2012, 08:50 PM
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Scooter you say Charlene is ready to "spit too." Does that mean split?

A civil wedding would be an insurance policy, nothing more, but insurance can be important.
My son and his wife, when courting, each wanted to be sure the other could achieve pregnancy, so they set about trying to get her pregnant, which happened immediately.
And they had a civil wedding immediately so that the child would be protected by insurance (maybe insurance is not as important for wealthy royals). Then they had a "public" wedding (not a religious one, since they are agnostics) but they invited their friends to a party for the later wedding, which occurred when the wife was four months pregnant.
Anyone can die at any moment, and "insurance" is therefore useful. Would a civil wedding be enough to ensure that Baby Boy Casiraghi is in line to the throne, or does it have to be a religious wedding? If I were them, and a religious wedding is not allowed during pregnancy, I would petition the Pope for a waiver of this rule and have a religious wedding now. They can always have a "party" for royals, friends, and relatives later. Andrea probably will not die in the next months, but I wouldn't take a chance if they are concerned about an heir. Maybe they are not! There are two more Casiraghi's who could produce a male heir.
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  #146  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:22 PM
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[QUOTE=Mariel1;1483587]Would a civil wedding be enough to ensure that Baby Boy Casiraghi is in line to the throne, or does it have to be a religious wedding? QUOTE]
A civil ceremoney is the only legal marriage in Monaco and all that is required in order to be legitimate and in the line of succession. Caroline's 2nd and 3rd marriages were civil marriages and the children of those marriages are in the line of succession. Both of Stephanies marriages were civil marriages and the children from her first marriage are in the line of succession even though they were born before their parents wedding.
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  #147  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariel1 View Post
Scooter you say Charlene is ready to "spit too." Does that mean split?

A civil wedding would be an insurance policy, nothing more, but insurance can be important.
My son and his wife, when courting, each wanted to be sure the other could achieve pregnancy, so they set about trying to get her pregnant, which happened immediately.
And they had a civil wedding immediately so that the child would be protected by insurance (maybe insurance is not as important for wealthy royals). Then they had a "public" wedding (not a religious one, since they are agnostics) but they invited their friends to a party for the later wedding, which occurred when the wife was four months pregnant.
Anyone can die at any moment, and "insurance" is therefore useful. Would a civil wedding be enough to ensure that Baby Boy Casiraghi is in line to the throne, or does it have to be a religious wedding? If I were them, and a religious wedding is not allowed during pregnancy, I would petition the Pope for a waiver of this rule and have a religious wedding now. They can always have a "party" for royals, friends, and relatives later. Andrea probably will not die in the next months, but I wouldn't take a chance if they are concerned about an heir. Maybe they are not! There are two more Casiraghi's who could produce a male heir.
No Dear Mariel, I meant 'mad enough to spit' because Charlene had a long and winding road to the altar with Albert. I am sure the need for a legitimate heir played a factor in getting the reluctant mustang with muliple illegitimate offspring into the corral. Trust me when I tell you, it's WAY harder to get pregnant in you late 30s than early 20s.
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  #148  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:36 PM
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Scooter, that's funny about getting the mustang into the corral. In my son's case, when he married, both he and his intended were 40 years old and both were hot to trot to the maternity ward, so much so that they would have married others if either proved infertile (I know, not very romantic, I wouldn't have done it that way myself, being a romantic).
They must have conceived the first time they did not use birth control, proving that it's not always the age (within reason) that counts in fertility. And they did it again two years later, and could have probably done it relatively indefinitely had they wanted more than two at their "advanced ages". My great grandmother had twins at 52, so maybe it runs in the family. But of course, Scooter statistics are on your side with what you say. That is another reason I think it's unwise for the Cambridges to put off having a baby. Time for the Duchess to stop thinking about her model-thin figure and produce the heir!
Artemesia, thanks for telling me about the legal situation concerning heirs in Monaco.
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  #149  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
They could have the civil ceremony now, but in the last few years the Catholic Church has refused a Catholic marriage until after a baby is born. The reason being it should not be a 'shotgun' wedding. It should be a wanted choice. Too many people were asking for annulments on the grounds they were forced to marry.
I never heard of such a thing. The catholic church does not refuse marriage on such grounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariel1 View Post
Scooter you say Charlene is ready to "spit too." Does that mean split?

A civil wedding would be an insurance policy, nothing more, but insurance can be important.
And they had a civil wedding immediately so that the child would be protected by insurance (maybe insurance is not as important for wealthy royals). .
Hi Mariel, I don't understand what you mean by "insurance". A baby is equaliy protected/unprotected whether her parents are married or not. What do you mean by "insurance policy" here?

I agree with you about fertility, though. A woman is less fertile in her 30's than in her 20's, yes, but the decrease in fertily is very very small. If you have no problems conceiving, you'll get pregnant with equal facility at 25 than 35.
(..)
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  #150  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:21 AM
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And as for Andrea and Tatiana - after the birth they simply will go together to register a child in the office, in order for Andrea to officially recognize it, and all paternal right are given.
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  #151  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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Trepstep, by insurance for the Casaraghis I was not speaking of monetary insurance, but about "heir insurance". Insurance that a legitimate heir to the throne has been born.
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  #152  
Old 11-16-2012, 01:36 PM
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Did they set a wedding date? I'm sure the pregnancy changes things.
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  #153  
Old 11-16-2012, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
And as for Andrea and Tatiana - after the birth they simply will go together to register a child in the office, in order for Andrea to officially recognize it, and all paternal right are given.
Paternal rights and succession rights are different. Succession requires a marriage at some point.
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  #154  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
Did they set a wedding date? I'm sure the pregnancy changes things.
Paris-Match paper version said the civil ceremony will take place during Spring 2013 probably in Monaco, and the religious wedding during Winter 2014 in Gstaad.
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  #155  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elektra

Paris-Match paper version said the civil ceremony will take place during Spring 2013 probably in Monaco, and the religious wedding during Winter 2014 in Gstaad.
I wonder why they would wait so long for a religious wedding? Do they mean the winter early in 2014 in January or later at the end of the year like Decmeber? Why Gstaad? Is that where Tatiana is from?
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  #156  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:34 PM
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I think that "Winter 2014" meant somewhere between December 2013 and March 2014.

About the religious wedding in Gstaad, maybe they are planning a romantic Christmas or New Year wedding with snow and sleighs?
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  #157  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:09 PM
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[QUOTE=trepstrep;1483680]I never heard of such a thing. The catholic church does not refuse marriage on such grounds.

In the US they do.
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  #158  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:52 PM
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[QUOTE=Grandma828;1483819]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
I never heard of such a thing. The catholic church does not refuse marriage on such grounds.

In the US they do.
You are correct about the Catholic Church in USA. It has been done a few times that I know of. They will gladly unite couple after child is over 6 months and both parents have gone through weeks of additional classes.
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  #159  
Old 11-16-2012, 04:59 PM
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[QUOTE=Grandma828;1483819]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post
I never heard of such a thing. The catholic church does not refuse marriage on such grounds.

In the US they do.
Yes, I have heard of that happening as well. I also know of friends of mine who were told 2 weeks before their scheduled wedding by their priest that he was refusing to marry them because they did not want to have children. Even after it was explained to the priest that she had been advised for health reasons by her doctor not to have children the priest still refused and when they appealed to the Bishop he told them he could not over rule a parish priest in this matter although he did later give them some money to compensate for some expenses they had incurred on the planned wedding. In the end they went to another denomination to have their wedding and left the RC Church.
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  #160  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:23 PM
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The theory behind this whole thing is 'If you are not going to follow the rules of the religion, why do you want a religious wedding. At the present time, in our parish, if couples are living together, they must move apart before they can begin marriage preparation. It had become a hugh mess. You wouldn"t see people in church for years and then they would show up wanting to marry, or have a baby baptized. Either you believe in a faith or you don"t, but don"t be a hypocrite and just use the Church for ceremonies.
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