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  #101  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:21 PM
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  #102  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
First of all, Andrea is not royalty, (at least for now) and Tatiana either.

Secondly, who decides for them that they have to be an example?
And an example for what?
Some people believe that they will not have sexual relations before marriage. It a respectable opinion. This part of people follows its own examples.
Some other people believe to free relations, out of marriage, respectable also. They have also their examples.
Did ever Andrea or Tatiana declared that they will marry virgins? If yes, I agree that they are hypocrits. If not, they are free to live their lifes, and we are not allowed to judge them, and we do not have the right to take them as examples of our own convictions, without asking their opinion.
If anyone of the Monaco's family, (so accused to be a bad example...), were Priest or Nuns, YES I agree they are lying. But they are not, noone of them.
first, i was speaking about the Monaco royal family in general, not focusing only on Tatiana and Andrea.
second, did i say some disrespectable opinion? i was even defending everyone choices by saying "having a sexual relationship is up to the couple/partners".
third, Andrea might not have a royal title, but he belongs to the royal family and thus is in line to the throne, so yes, he is part of royalty!
fourth and last, everyone in the public eye can be a good or a bad example in the way they behave themselves.
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  #103  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
[And going to the mass for a funeral or a national day, it does not means that you are practicing a religion] quote

It does indeed mean that, if you actually take the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ, which the Grimaldis and Casiraghis all do when they go to Mass and which the Scriptures and the Church have always taught that you must do only in a state of absolute grace...otherwise you are guilty of blasphemy.

The family's Coat of Arms actually displays two Catholic monks for crying out loud!

Sorry if this is distateful to some people but these are facts, not opinions.

I don't know what is in Tatiana and Andrea's hearts. I am not speculating on the state of their souls or on their relationships with God. But for the sake of an innocent child and for the future of the dynasty I hope they can give this baby what he/she deserves...a loving and stable home within the confines of a happy marrage.
So why is there even a discussion? Religion and whetever or not the parents were married at the time of the birth is not relevant at all. Not anymore. We're not living in the 1950's for crying out loud.
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  #104  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:36 PM
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There is a discussion Empress Merel, because this is a Discussion Board.

Religion might not be relevant for you and that is okay. But for some of us it is.

Royalty, religion and the Church have always been linked closely from the very beginning. Accept it or not, it's simply the way it is.
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  #105  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
So why is there even a discussion? Religion and whetever or not the parents were married at the time of the birth is not relevant at all. Not anymore. We're not living in the 1950's for crying out loud.
\
Obviously it is still relevant or we would not be having the discussion. One does not need to be living in the 1950s to know there is still for many people a right way and a wrong way of doing things.
Personally I believe it is a parents responsibility to make sure their child has the fewest possible impediments in life.
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  #106  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:47 PM
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I agree with NGalitzine as regards their choosing to get married after the baby is born. These people are not short of cash; they don't have to save up for a few years to get married as many couples do. They could have a low-key wedding, both civil and religious, planned in a few short months given their financial firepower.

I have nothing against unmarried couples having children. I just would've thought that two people who intend to get married at some stage anyway upon hearing that they're expecting would want to do it before the child's arrival.
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  #107  
Old 11-09-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
There is a discussion Empress Merel, because this is a Discussion Board.

Religion might not be relevant for you and that is okay. But for some of us it is.

Royalty, religion and the Church have always been linked closely from the very beginning. Accept it or not, it's simply the way it is.
Whetever it's relevant to you does not mean it's relevant to the couple actually having the baby.
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  #108  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:09 PM
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[QUOTE=camelot23ca;1481863]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

The puzzling part to me is that there's no compelling reason for them not to be married prior to the birth of the baby, (unless there's something going on we don't know about). It's not like they're a couple of 17 year olds or the pregnancy is the result of a chance encounter between two near strangers. Andrea and Tatiana are two adults in their late 20s who have been together forever, and who plan to marry anyway.
The idea that no one cares about this sort of thing anymore is wrong. It may not be the huge stigma it once was but plenty of people, including people in the social circles the Casiraghi baby will presumably move in, still consider it at least somewhat important that a child be born to married parents.
I fully agree with you,it is a matter of respecting traditions and a question of form to be married before having children.
Nobody expects young couples to live celibate nowadays,it is great that thanks to modern birth planning methods people can live together,get to know each other well and build a strong relationship before they decide to raise a family.
Anyhow,a baby is always a blessing to a young couple and I wish them all the best luck for their future!The first pregnancy is very special and I hope they can enjoy and appreciate it as much as possible.
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  #109  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Whetever it's relevant to you does not mean it's relevant to the couple actually having the baby.
Well as far as I can tell neither one of them is taking part in the discussion on this forum.
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  #110  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:24 PM
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That´s right,it is just an exchange of ideas about social forms and no reason to get upset.If a royal ever stumbles over TRF I hope they have a good portion of humour and laugh about our petty discussions.Especially the fashion-section which dissects every little detail of their appearance and turns quite acrimonius sometimes....
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  #111  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
having a sexual relationship is up to the couple/partners, nowadays is not a big of a deal, who will know for 100% that they share a bed?, but when a child is conceived like they did, everybody will know thats out of wedlock. They're NOT common people, they are royalty who have to set a example to their people and even more as they try to show the people that they're devout catholics.

I don´t know if they wanted a child or if it just "happened", it´s good news anyway. But, are you aware that even with contraceptive methods accidents happen? What would you have expected, an abortion? Andrea is not a prince, he doesn´t have to set any example. We are not living in the 19´s century when living with your partner or sex were still taboo, as if they had married virgin!!
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  #112  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Andrea is not a prince, he doesn´t have to set any example.
As long as Albert doesn't have a child to inherit the throne, Andrea is the second in line for the throne and the child will be the third in line when the parents marry. If it would happen that the child one day will become prince/princess of Monaco and ruler, the fact that s/he was born before the parents were married could affect Monaco. For example, we all assume that the Catholic church will be/become more lenient in moral issues, but there could as well be a shift towards more strict morals in the future, and then it could be difficult to have a ruler of a Catholic country who was born out of wedlock, even if the parents married later on. Another question is how would the monarchs in other countries where the rules are more stringent about children born out of wedlock being out of the line of succession consider a fellow monarch who is not being "legitimate" according to the law in their country.
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  #113  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:15 PM
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Congrats !!! A child is always a blessing
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  #114  
Old 11-09-2012, 08:17 PM
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It comes down to a difference of opinion which is expected and should be acceptable on these sorts of boards.

I was commenting on the Grimaldi family in general, not focusing on Andrea in particular. Albert and his siblings attend mass for public occasions and receive the sacrament, implying they are following a catholic life and the life ideas set out in the bible. However all have had children conceived outside wedlock and one has been divorced and now another out of wedlock child is to be born into the family. I just think its sad that with other royal families it would be a scandal but with this family it is something of the norm.
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  #115  
Old 11-09-2012, 10:42 PM
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I do feel for the memory of Grace and Ranier who indeed tried to elevate Monaco and did so with very hard work.
However, they are the parents of these children for whom, duty has not been as paramont as appearing fashionable.
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  #116  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness
I do feel for the memory of Grace and Ranier who indeed tried to elevate Monaco and did so with very hard work.
However, they are the parents of these children for whom, duty has not been as paramont as appearing fashionable.
Grace and Ranier had their fair share of scandal and marital problems.
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  #117  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Grace and Ranier had their fair share of scandal and marital problems.
I do not recall scandal regarding Grace and Rainier. Perhaps you could elaborate on this. Unsubstantiated gossip is not `scandal`.
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  #118  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick

I do not recall scandal regarding Grace and Rainier. Perhaps you could elaborate on this. Unsubstantiated gossip is not `scandal`.
All the old stuff- that each of them had extramarital affairs, that they lived virtually separate lives towards the end of Grace's life.

Who knows how much is true? I was just pointing out that somehow I think the princely family will survive one more baby born a little early.
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  #119  
Old 11-10-2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
It comes down to a difference of opinion which is expected and should be acceptable on these sorts of boards.

I was commenting on the Grimaldi family in general, not focusing on Andrea in particular. Albert and his siblings attend mass for public occasions and receive the sacrament, implying they are following a catholic life and the life ideas set out in the bible. However all have had children conceived outside wedlock and one has been divorced and now another out of wedlock child is to be born into the family. I just think its sad that with other royal families it would be a scandal but with this family it is something of the norm.
I think we should remember the old rule of thumb; "There are three types of princesses: Princesses by birth, Princesses by marriage and Princesses of Monaco." Just sayin'.
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  #120  
Old 11-10-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster

I think we should remember the old rule of thumb; "There are three types of princesses: Princesses by birth, Princesses by marriage and Princesses of Monaco." Just sayin'.
So true! They live by different rules than any other monarchy!
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