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  #181  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:26 PM
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In some of the Bruno photos, it shows the front of the (empty) carrier.
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  #182  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:28 PM
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I'm happy for them..but they really should've gotten married first. It just doesn't look good being so closely related to royalty.
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  #183  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
I'm happy for them..but they really should've gotten married first. It just doesn't look good being so closely related to royalty.
Well it is sort of a family tradition. All of Princess Antoinettes children and the first 2 of Princess Stephanies children were born before their parents married in civil ceremonies. Of course the marriages were soon followed by divorces.
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  #184  
Old 03-26-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Of course the marriages were soon followed by divorces.
Which is another family tradition..
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  #185  
Old 03-26-2013, 03:26 PM
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Let's do not make such a fuss about it. They won't be hiding the baby for ever we will certainly see Andrea's boy in two, three months
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  #186  
Old 03-26-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Marisaa View Post
Let's do not make such a fuss about it. They won't be hiding the baby for ever we will certainly see Andrea's boy in two, three months
If they wait a few years he can even be ring bearer at their wedding
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  #187  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Sorry but you're wrong, there is such a thing as illegitmate children in the UK and in France. Jazmin and Alexandre are both considered illegitimate children, Jazmin is even considered an adulterine child. This child will remain illegitimate and have no place in Monaco Succesion until his parents marry. Same goes for Louis Ducruet who was legitimised by his parents marriage.
No, it's you who are wrong I'm sorry. I'm not really sure about the UK, but I doubt it is bvery different from the two countries I'm sure about, Spain and France.

In France, legally speaking, it doesn't exist such a thing as an "illegitimate child" and french law doesn't even recognize the terms "adulterine child".

I mean, you can use the words, the words do exist, and they mean the child was born out of wedlock, but they are void of legal meaning because in France a child born out of wedlock (enfant naturel) has the exact same legal and economic rights than a child of married parents.

If you are religious, yes, then, a catholic wedding does "legitimize" a child in the eyes of god and the church, but it has zero legal value.

Jazmin and Alexandre simply don't have succesion rights to the Principality of Monaco. That' all. Appart from that they have they are legally Albert heirs

Of course, you don't have to belive my word, but maybe this piece from Le Monde will help:

Quote (I'm sorry about the bold type, I don't seem to be able to make is smaller):
Peu à peu, le législateur a pris acte de ce bouleversement des modes de vie. En 1972, il a proclamé l'égalité des filiations légitimes et naturelles. "Tous les enfants dont la filiation est légalement établie ont les mêmes droits et les mêmes devoirs dans leurs rapports avec leur père et leur mère, précise depuis lors le code civil. Ils entrent dans la famille de chacun d'eux."
Plusieurs textes ont, ensuite, fait disparaître les derniers privilèges des enfants légitimes : la loi sur les successions de 2001 a affirmé l'égalité en matière successorale et celle sur l'autorité parentale de 2002 a supprimé la distinction, dans ce domaine, entre les pères mariés et les pères naturels qui reconnaissent leur enfant avant l'âge d'un an.


La distinction entre enfants lgitimes et naturels va disparatre

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Originally Posted by julliette View Post
Jazmin, Alexandre and now the baby of Andrea and Tatiana (until the marriage) are considered illegitimate only to the Monaco Sucessions issues.

I think what trepstep meant to say is that in France as well as many western european countries like Portugal for example (I don't know about the UK), there is no such things as illegitimate children. According to the law of such countries, the parents being married or not is totally irrelevant. Children born out of wedlock or even "adulterine" children as you said have the same status/rights that children born from married parents.
So, the fact that Andrea and Tatiana are not married only matters for the sucessions issue, apart from it, the fact that they are not married is irrelevant
Exactly. You explained it much better than me!
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  #188  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:25 PM
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This is what I meant to say as well on my previous post butforgot to further elaborate.Andrea's son has no succession rights (in the meantime) to the throne of Monaco but yes to the personal fortune of his parents..same goes to Alexandre and Jazmin who have every right to Albert's personal fortune but none to the throne.

http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-ph...y-ward?popup=1
Little Andrea as a baby.
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  #189  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:38 PM
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Royalty or not, couples are now having children without being married first. I'm glad Andrea & Tatiana is getting married, despite them having the baby first. I think a solid family foundation is important.
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  #190  
Old 03-26-2013, 06:04 PM
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^^But a solid family foundation depends on whether the parents are married or not? I mean, sure a couple that does live together and behaves like a married couple (whether they are married or not) is a better solid family foundation than a divorced couple. But noticed that two people don't need to be legally married to live together and raise a family exactly like a legally married couple would. I give you the example of Carine Roitfeld who never married her "husband" and they live together for more than 30 years, seem to be very happy with each other and raised two children who from what I can see seem to have very solid foundations.
Tatiana and Andrea seem to have a stable relationship (from what we can see) and nothing leads me to believe that they wouldn't be able to have a very solid family even if they didn't married.
At the end, ihaving a document or not is pretty irrelevant
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  #191  
Old 03-26-2013, 11:38 PM
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I guess the birth must have been a c-section. If the baby was born on the 21st and she's leaving to go home on the 26th it certainly seems to indicate so.
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  #192  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:07 AM
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^ This is tangential to the Baby Casiraghi, but UK (and American) law do differentiate between children born in and out of wedlock. Whether or not the parents are married can effect the baby's ability to get British/American citizenship if s/he is born overseas, and I still see wills that refer specifically to legitimate/or recognized children. Obviously this is difference from France, where immediate family members have certain rights to a decedent's estate and cannot be completely disinherited.
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  #193  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:22 AM
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^ This is tangential to the Baby Casiraghi, but UK (and American) law do differentiate between children born in and out of wedlock. Whether or not the parents are married can effect the baby's ability to get British/American citizenship if s/he is born overseas, and I still see wills that refer specifically to legitimate/or recognized children. Obviously this is difference from France, where immediate family members have certain rights to a decedent's estate and cannot be completely disinherited.
I have no idea about the United States, but you are wrong about the UK. It was like that in the 19th century, and the 1st half of the 20th century, but since the Family Law Reform Act of 1969, children born out of wedlock do inherit.

Part II
Property Rights of Illegitimate Children
14Right of illegitimate child to succeed on intestacy of parents, and of parents to succeed on intestacy f illegitimate child(1)

Where either parent of an illegitimate child dies intestate as respects all or any of his or her real or personal property, the illegitimate child or, if he is dead, his issue, shall be entitled to take any interest therein to which he or such issue would have been entitled if he had been born legitimate.



When there is a testament the parents can probably choose to leave more money to a particular child, or to the legitimate children, but in that case there is no difference between legitimate or illegimate either. If you have only legitimate children can also choose to leave most of your fortune to one legitimate child, and only the mandadory part the law forces you to leave to the other legimate child.


In France, it's not that they can't be completely disinherited. Natural children have the exact same rights than children born from a married couple.
I'm not sure if Monaco is subjected 100% to french civil law, but if that's the case, then Alexandre and Jazmin have the exact same rights to Albert's personal fortune than any child born from his marriage with Charlene may have.
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  #194  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by trepstrep View Post

No, it's you who are wrong I'm sorry. I'm not really sure about the UK, but I doubt it is bvery different from the two countries I'm sure about, Spain and France.
We'll have to agree to disagree, because you're wrong but you can't see it I'm afraid. This discussion has had it's time so :)
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  #195  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree, because you're wrong but you can't see it I'm afraid. This discussion has had it's time so :)
No, I'm not wrong. Since I wasn't sure about the UK I googled it and checked the facts.

I've just posted an extract of the Family Law Reform Act of 1969.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's the british law.
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  #196  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:46 AM
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Hola is also speculating about the name Sacha,citing Stephane Bern..The magazine is still waiting for an official confirmation from the Principality.It also said that Princess Caroline flew in to London to visit her first grandson.
I'd never have guessed the name Sacha,I was thinking more traditional Grimaldi names.
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  #197  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:17 AM
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I am sure that Stefano Casiraghi is over the moon in heaven about his grandson. What a pity that they won't meet.
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  #198  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:37 AM
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En ¡HOLA!: Carolina, las imágenes exclusivas tras conocer a su primer nieto
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  #199  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:16 AM
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I wonder which language Andrea and Tatiana talk when they're together ?
They're so international...english ? french ? other ?
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  #200  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Sorry but you're wrong, there is such a thing as illegitmate children in the UK and in France. Jazmin and Alexandre are both considered illegitimate children, Jazmin is even considered an adulterine child.
Maybe the reason for them being considered as illegitimate is that they were born before July 1, 2006, when the law in France (and possibly Monaco) changed and there are no longer any legal difference between children born out of wedlock or not.
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