William, Harry, their Girlfriends and the Press


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Well, there certainly appears to be a policy of calling questions or negative responses regarding some individuals, bullying, (which in itself could be called bullying)!

As far as I'm aware, there isn't such a policy, although you'd need to get confirmation from the British moderators.

Having said that, I think it's important to look at context when making claims about moderator intervention. You only have to read back through a thread like this or the Sarah Duchess of York thread to know that there are plenty of negative comments and plenty of questions where the royals are concerned, and they haven't been deleted.

As a rule, negative comments and questions about forum moderation should be dealt with in the Support and Feedback forum or via PM so they don't disrupt the flow of conversation about the thread topic. If we're talking about negative comments and questions about the royals, I'm not seeing evidence of systemic censorship.

However, especially in the York threads and the threads about William and Kate, there's increasingly been a very unpleasant tone. I know the British mods have been getting complaints about these threads from members and other mods (apparently a lot of people don't seem to realise I'm no longer a British mod so I've been cc'd on a few of them). There may well not be a clear demarcation between thoughtful criticism and outright bashing in any given post, but it isn't all that hard to tell when a whole thread has slipped across the line. And the Sarah thread slipped across that line quite some time ago. The mods have been trying to nudge it back in a low-key fashion, but several people were too engrossed in "Sarah can't do a thing right and anyway she got her toes sucked so let's poke spiteful fun at her" to notice, hence the firm intervention of a couple of weeks ago.

I understand that in this thread there's a different issue, because there do seem to be serious and fully legitimate questions about abuse of privilege and coverups and so on. However, the point here is that some people are saying that this is just how it is with royals and others are claiming that it's specific to William and are using that opinion as a springboard to "William is a pathetic disgrace" comments which seem to be beginning to dominate the thread, to the detriment of the discussion itself. I think the issue of whether the current abuse of privilege is ongoing or is unique to William may be a case where people will just have to agree to disagree, but I must say I can't see any evidence where posts advancing the latter opinon have been removed.

The moderation team across the whole forum (not just the British threads) is trying to avoid having threads turn into platforms to unleash venom about controversial royals, ex-royals, and associates of royals. There are other forums on royalty where spite is consistently passed off as wit. Most outsiders reading those threads can tell that this is a transparent excuse for vicious piling on, and the atmosphere in those forums has a lot in common with playground bullying. That isn't the sort of atmosphere we're striving for here.

The above are all general points and not directed to your posts, but I'm going to make a personal observation here which of course you can feel free to disagree with. I think that if someone had been talking about Camilla in the same tones that certain people have been using to talk about Sarah, you wouldn't be so fast to refer to them as "interesting" posters who it would be a shame to lose from the conversations. It's very easy, and I know it's just human nature and I'm as guilty as anyone, to see things through the filter of one's personal preferences. However, the moderators do have to try and provide as level a playing field as possible, while of course acknowledging that when certain royals behave like idiots, it's perfectly appropriate for people to call them on it. Up to a point, of course.
 
I couldn't help but notice that my original post (294) has an edited by kimebear note for todays date?

I'm asking you to take my word for this.

People on the mod and admin teams can see edits for (I think) 90 days after they've been made. I checked that post and the change Kimebear made was in the quoted material (from post 293) posted by her, not by you.

The original read

or what kind of dresses her grandaughters where

and the changed version read

or what kind of dresses her grandaughters wear

That's the only change I could see between the two versions.

Post 293 was also edited by Kimebear, to make the same change.
 
The above are all general points and not directed to your posts, but I'm going to make a personal observation here which of course you can feel free to disagree with. I think that if someone had been talking about Camilla in the same tones that certain people have been using to talk about Sarah, you wouldn't be so fast to refer to them as "interesting" posters who it would be a shame to lose from the conversations. It's very easy, and I know it's just human nature and I'm as guilty as anyone, to see things through the filter of one's personal preferences. However, the moderators do have to try and provide as level a playing field as possible, while of course acknowledging that when certain royals behave like idiots, it's perfectly appropriate for people to call them on it. Up to a point, of course.

Elspeth, Skydragon did not say that it "would be a shame to loose from the conversation." But I recall somebody wrote that (it was probably Menarue - who already left the forums or so she wrote to me via PM)) and now that I looked for this post it is gone - at least I didn't find any with this wording in it. Plus the posting by Skydragon has been edited by kimebear and there as well I seem to recall that Skydragon wrote more than what is left there. It just doesn't seem right that of two people involved in a heavy discussion one can and does edit the other's posts. This gives me personally a very uneasy feeling and I wish the mods could look again at what actually happened in these two threads and what is left of the original messages and what is gone.
 
I'm asking you to take my word for this.

People on the mod and admin teams can see edits for (I think) 90 days after they've been made. I checked that post and the change Kimebear made was in the quoted material (from post 293) posted by her, not by you.

The original read

or what kind of dresses her grandaughters where

and the changed version read

or what kind of dresses her grandaughters wear

That's the only change I could see between the two versions.

Post 293 was also edited by Kimebear, to make the same change.

I'm quite willing to take your word for it and if I'm wrong, please feel free to remove this post but I seem to recall that Skydragon paralleled the censorship activity on the base forums with some work of mods here? Am I wrong?
 
:previous:
Thank you for your calm and measured reply. :flowers: With regard to nasty posts about Camilla would be unacceptable, whereas comments about Sarah are, it happens on a regular basis and appear to be ignored. However I accepted some time ago, a style that one person likes would be revolting to another, even the comments about a 61 year old having wrinkles are laughable when you imagine how some 30 - 50 year olds might look, (and I most certainly do not mean you).:D With regard to the posters who have apparently left, we did not all agree on every royal, but some of the information and discussions were thought provoking.

Years ago, very few people would have questioned the 'right' of a member of the royal family to be awarded everything they asked for, the big difference is, IMO, that it was never fully confirmed and much more reverence was shown. Now people expect them to stick to the rules and most people do not like being mislead. As Idriel, Duke of Marmalade and I have said, we know they are going to be awarded the positions without too much effort but at least be honest about it. If you read the comments section in any of the papers, very few are impressed by such favouritism and apparent deception from someone who expects to become our future monarch.
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Who would have thought a simple reference to what the busy little mods (one of them a relative) get up to on some of the military forums would have caused so many posts. :rolleyes::nonono:
 
I'm asking you to take my word for this.
I have no problem taking your word on it at all, I had no idea what had been altered, perhaps it might be possible to revert to the old system where the reason for the alteration is given.:flowers:
 
The system where people give reasons is still live; I'm sure Kimebear will be happy to go and add the reason.
 
:previous:
Thank you for your calm and measured reply. :flowers: With regard to nasty posts about Camilla would be unacceptable, whereas comments about Sarah are, it happens on a regular basis and appear to be ignored. However I accepted some time ago, a style that one person likes would be revolting to another, even the comments about a 61 year old having wrinkles are laughable when you imagine how some 30 - 50 year olds might look, (and I most certainly do not mean you).:D With regard to the posters who have apparently left, we did not all agree on every royal, but some of the information and discussions were thought provoking.

It's much easier to be calm and measured as an ex-mod, let me tell you...:ROFLMAO:

But from my perspective I'm seeing criticism of both Sarah and Camilla that's been left in the thread and also that's been deleted. I'm not seeing biased moderator treatment here, but an attempt to maintain civility without overdoing the censorship in both cases.

Years ago, very few people would have questioned the 'right' of a member of the royal family to be awarded everything they asked for, the big difference is, IMO, that it was never fully confirmed and much more reverence was shown. Now people expect them to stick to the rules and most people do not like being mislead. As Idriel, Duke of Marmalade and I have said, we know they are going to be awarded the positions without too much effort but at least be honest about it. If you read the comments section in any of the papers, very few are impressed by such favouritism and apparent deception from someone who expects to become our future monarch.

I understand what you're saying, and I think this is a very interesting question and one that feeds directly into the whole discussion about the future of the monarchy. Might even be worth its own thread. But when the thread is also being used to say what a waste of space William is, the personal stuff tends to dominate.

Who would have thought a simple reference to what the busy little mods (one of them a relative) get up to on some of the military forums would have caused so many posts. :rolleyes::nonono:

Erm, it wasn't the simple reference that got people's attention, it was the "and this is how it's done here too" aside.;):whistling:
 
I'm quite willing to take your word for it and if I'm wrong, please feel free to remove this post but I seem to recall that Skydragon paralleled the censorship activity on the base forums with some work of mods here? Am I wrong?

Yes, she did, but in the particular case I'm asking her to take my word for, there wasn't censorship, there was a simple correction of a typo.
 
But when the thread is also being used to say what a waste of space William is, the personal stuff tends to dominate.
Contrary to the impression some seem to have, I do not consider either William or Harry a waste of space, just in need of training by myself or Mr S!:eek:
Erm, it wasn't the simple reference that got people's attention, it was the "and this is how it's done here too" aside.;):whistling:
:hiding: I perhaps got a little carried away, a :baby: moment!:hiding: Sorry.:D
 
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Contrary to the impression some seem to have, I do not consider either William or Harry a waste of space, just in need of traing by myself or Mr S!:eek::hiding:

I'd pay good money for a front-row seat at the training session....:popcorn::ROFLMAO:
 
Would you really expect me to give you the names, ranks and serial numbers of the mods that I personally know to be able to make the statement?:whistling:

Well Moderators don't really come out of factories so you'll have to do without the serial number.:D Apart from that, would you mind explaining yourself in this thread? We'd like to keep this one focused on what it's really about, William, Harry, girlfriends and the press. If you want to share your Mod names, feel free to send Kimebear or myself a PM so we can deal with this properly and private, without going off-topic here.
 
I couldn't help but notice that my original post (294) has an edited by kimebear note for todays date?

As a matter of course, I don't usually give an editing reason for something minor like a spelling correction. Especially when it is my own post. However, in this case I have done so to avoid any hint of inpropriety.
 
I found this about Charles's accident on this website: http://splashdown2.tripod.com/id16.html

There is of course this bizarre accident, which does not appear much on any websites but is Crown Copyright and extracted from Hansard regarding the crash at Islay with HRH Prince Charles at the controls

From Hansard 19th July 1995
Queens Flight (Incident at Islay )
Mr. Butcher: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the findings of the inquiry into the incident at Islay in June 1994 involving an aircraft of the Queens flight. [36349]
Mr. Arbuthnot: The inquiry into the incident on 29 June 1994 when a BAe 146 of the Queens flight ran off the runway after landing at Islay has been completed and I have placed a summary in the Library of the House. The captain and navigator were responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the supervision of HRH the Prince of Wales, who was flying as a pilot under instruction. The inquiry judged that the captain and navigator had been negligent in failing adequately to plan and to correct the approach and landing. Procedures for appointments of aircrew to the Queens Flight which is now part of No. 32 (The Royal)






Absolutely not. One of the events that I came across during my time on the military sites this morning was a rather frank discussion of an incident that I was not familiar with before, although I'm sure many of you may be. It involved the helicopter of a Queen's Flight some years ago where Charles took over the controls from the original pilot in flight. After reading the MoD's report (kindly provided via link by the poster), it was apparant that while the equipment was in Charles' control, several bad calls were made regarding the approach, weather conditions and other factors. The landing was poorly executed and a good degree of damage was done to the equipment. However, the report reads that it was the original captain and the navigator who were held to blame, not Charles. Several of the posters believe that Charles' poor flying ability was the cause of the accident and the captain and navigator were forced to allow it because of Charles' position.
 
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I post this as a way to show how misuse of a helicopter is normally dealt with -

An urgent RAF probe is underway into why a Search and Rescue helicopter was apparently used to drop off servicemen for a round of golf.
RAF probes 'helicopter golf trip' - Yahoo! News UK

"There are strict rules in place regarding use of military aircraft and we are urgently investigating this incident to ensure regulations have been observed
This would be the normal response and that is why there is still such outrage concerning Williams little detours, especially as the MOD described his as 'training'.
 
who was flying as a pilot under instruction. The inquiry judged that the captain and navigator had been negligent in failing adequately to plan and to correct the approach and landing.
And quite right to, if a driving instructor failed to tell the learner driver to keep to the left (well here and Australia at least. :D), the instructor is the person who would be considered negligent.:flowers:
 
I can't find the post that I originally posted the link in response to! :D It had something to do with somebody seeing a discussion of this on RAF websites and the suggestion of a coverup.


And quite right to, if a driving instructor failed to tell the learner driver to keep to the left (well here and Australia at least. :D), the instructor is the person who would be considered negligent.:flowers:
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I can't find the post that I originally posted the link in response to! :D It had something to do with somebody seeing a discussion of this on RAF websites and the suggestion of a coverup.
I was the rabble-rouser there, :D. One of my relatives moderates and I am able to see the posts he was obliged to remove. I thought I would be able to link to one of the sites but for some reason the link won't transport, so under the impression that it was Vista playing up again or my firewalls, I suggested anyone could register, this then started WWIII. :D 319 is the post I believe you replied to, although in fact the craft was a BAe 146 of the Queens Flight, not a helicopter as stated in the post. :flowers:
 
Right. It was 319. I didn't look back far enough to find the original post. I had remembered that there was an incident, but I thought that it happened earlier; so I went looking for it. Thanks.:flowers:

I was the rabble-rouser there, :D. One of my relatives moderates and I am able to see the posts he was obliged to remove. I thought I would be able to link to one of the sites but for some reason the link won't transport, so under the impression that it was Vista playing up again or my firewalls, I suggested anyone could register, this then started WWIII. :D 319 is the post I believe you replied to, although in fact the craft was a BAe 146 of the Queens Flight, not a helicopter as stated in the post. :flowers:
 
Maybe I'm getting cynical in my dotage. The flurry of William's charity activities and now the newly released over-two-year-old photo of him chopping lettuce at Centrepoint, is making it appear to be a PR effort to bury the bad news about his pricy ski trip.
 
I don't think the ski trip (only rumored by one less-than-reliable news outlet) is the story they're trying to bury -- if anything, they're probably still trying to do damage control over that documentary that called William lazy.
 
I don't think the ski trip (only rumored by one less-than-reliable news outlet) is the story they're trying to bury -- if anything, they're probably still trying to do damage control over that documentary that called William lazy.

.... or perhaps the engagements had been scheduled for a while, to coincide with his time off from the SAR. You can hardly schedule the 40th anniv of Centrepoint just becuase there is some negative publicity!
 
I think that's entirely possible, too, muriel. I'm not suggesting that there's necessarily some sort of PR machination going on, but if there were to be, I don't think the target would be a ski trip that the Mail has written about.
 
:previous:

This story I doubt, because from what I understand, Kate and Chelsy were never good friends to begin with. I mean, they were rarely seen in public together, except when their boyfriends were playing polo. So, I take this report with a grain of salt.
 
I wonder whether we'll see William on more engagements on occasions when his father is on foreign trips. It makes sense to have the heir's heir around when the heir isn't there. (Hey, that rhymes!)

.... or perhaps the engagements had been scheduled for a while, to coincide with his time off from the SAR. You can hardly schedule the 40th anniv of Centrepoint just becuase there is some negative publicity!
 
:previous: That would mean that the MOD would have to arrange for leave to coincide with any trips, still they can move mountains!:D
 
Or Clarence House would have to schedule foreign visits for when William's available.:)

:previous: That would mean that the MOD would have to arrange for leave to coincide with any trips, still they can move mountains!:D
 
Either foreign engagements or home engagements would be wonderful to see. I believe William should take on more responsibility now, i understand he has the army but....
x
 
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