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  #21  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:21 AM
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BeatrixFan...as always your posts are interesting and i love reading them. my response is that i think william fully expects, or at least he should, to be photographed/written about but what he hates is the "mob" thing. would that be a realistic to you?
Well, in a way I agree. The mob is over the top but it's encouraged by the places he's going to, how often he's going to them and who he's going to them with. In other words, William might hate the mob and the endless photographs but he doesn't do himself any favours and until his behaviour changes, he'll have to learn to put up with the press.
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:24 AM
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my only issue with the "pose for one photograph" would be that yes it worked with joan crawford but that was a different time and place. lot's of celebrities pose for photos and cooperate but the intrusion continues. but you're right, if he did pose, then at least you could have some sympathy and he'd have an argument.
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:32 AM
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my only issue with the "pose for one photograph" would be that yes it worked with joan crawford but that was a different time and place. lot's of celebrities pose for photos and cooperate but the intrusion continues. but you're right, if he did pose, then at least you could have some sympathy and he'd have an argument.
The media frenzy that surround Crawford was much like the frenzy we see today. Wherever she went, whatever she did, she was photographed. Now some of that she engineered much like Diana did but the majority of the time, she was papped. I would agree though that the press weren't as vicious as they are now, they respected Joan and kept a distance as long as she played ball. When she didn't, they got a bit nasty and so I think with the press, it's all about boundaries. I have well-known friends (no I'm not boasting and no they're not celebrities) and when I'm out with them, the press might appear and ask for a photograph. They pose, say thankyou and we walk on our way. It's simple, it's tidy and the pictures rarely make the papers or magazines but they never have major intrusion or media stalking. I know that with the press an inch can turn into a mile but as I said originally, as it stands, William doesn't have a leg to stand on when he complains.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2007, 07:45 AM
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Unless your friends are the Queen and Prince Philip, they are not suffering the same as the Prince and his girlfriend.

To think the press will back off after Kate and William stop to pose is a bit unrealistic. The paparrazzi are not satisfied by photo ops. They want unguarded moments, preferably in less public settings. Those are worth far more. Surely you understand that this is what they are all about.

To compare press treatment of a US celebrity from a completely different era when the press not only kept a respectful distance when asked, but were often complicit by not publishing the shenanigans of bad behaving celebs and others, ie Joan Crawford abusing her adopted children, is to to compare apples and oranges.

William and Kate can walk hand in hand naked down the street it does not mean that the press is right to chase them in a car down the street on their way to retrieve their clothing or to mob Kate coming out of her front door, moronic behavior on her part for daring not to slide down the chimney or crawl out of a neighbor's back window so as not to court the press coming out of her home.

William and Kate are right to complain, and I hope they continue to do so whenever they feel the press has crossed the line. They won't prevail, there is no way IMO they can without making intrusions on a free press, but they can at least make nuisances of themselves by forcing the press to continue to swat away their complaints.

And as for no leg on which to stand, nice top flight lawyers like William and Kate have retained are paid to be creative and find holes in which to sue the pants off of these vultures. There are provisions in the PCC code of conduct that prohibit news organizations from using photos of agencies whose photographers stoop to these disgusting methods in order to get pictures. Very easy to single out just one offending client and go after them jointly and severally.
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2007, 08:21 AM
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The media frenzy that surround Crawford was much like the frenzy we see today. Wherever she went, whatever she did, she was photographed. Now some of that she engineered much like Diana did but the majority of the time, she was papped. I would agree though that the press weren't as vicious as they are now, they respected Joan and kept a distance as long as she played ball. When she didn't, they got a bit nasty and so I think with the press, it's all about boundaries. I have well-known friends (no I'm not boasting and no they're not celebrities) and when I'm out with them, the press might appear and ask for a photograph. They pose, say thankyou and we walk on our way. It's simple, it's tidy and the pictures rarely make the papers or magazines but they never have major intrusion or media stalking. I know that with the press an inch can turn into a mile but as I said originally, as it stands, William doesn't have a leg to stand on when he complains.
i think the difference is that you're right, joan loved the attention but the there wasn't the voracity for the intrusive moments that we have now. while, as i mentioned earlier, i think william fully expects to be photographed and written about he doesn't necessarily like it...he's so like his father that way but i think the way things are today, if you're on the same level of "celebrity" that william is, stopping and posing is never going to be enough. the public will always want more and more and what will be next. i'm just not sure what the happy medium is. we can't realistically expect william and catherine, or any celebrity for that matter, to never go out in public but neither can we expect them to become happy with the increasingly growing public appetite for pieces of their private lives. having said all that, i don't think we can blame any celebrity for their annoyance at the behavior of the press. it all boils down to greed, plain and simple. greed of the public for wanting to know all this nonsense, greed on the part of the photographer to get the money shot and greed at that papers and magazines for printing the photos.
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  #26  
Old 10-08-2007, 09:10 AM
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Well, William can't complain about paparazzi when he goes to a club like Boujis or Mahiki, because paparazzi camp out there every night waiting to get pics of the all the celebs and society stars on their way in and out. So if you go to these clubs, you are photographed, plain and simple. Nevertheless, it is always inappropriate when paparazzi pursue someone's car and if William felt threatened in this situation, he and his spokespeople have a right to complain about that. It's one thing to take pics of stars leaving the famous clubs. It's another to follow them home. I never believe in the paparazzi's right to take pics of people going or leaving their private homes, nor in their "right" to pursue them in vehicles. I didn't like one bit in the 90s with Diana, and I don't like it now. It's just wrong, no matter how you slice it. I know I would be freaked out if they were following me in my car, so I can't blame William and Kate for complaining about it.
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2007, 09:16 AM
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But would they have been following them home if they hadn't gone to a place where they knew the media would be waiting? I think the blame is with both parties.
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2007, 09:29 AM
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The paparrazzi over there are over the line. I hope Prince William and Kate Middleton continue to use every legal means to keep the paparrazzi on the defensive and keep the issue in the public eye. They have a right to go to a club and not have their car chased down the road.
Unfortunately this is not an ideal world but the british media reality and both Prince William and Ms Middleton should know by know the environment they are dealing with. You can't have both, a celebrity lifestyle and being left alone. As long as they do things that attract the paparazzi (eg binge drinking in an A List VIP club) they shouldn't complain about their picture being taken. If both did not want their pictures in the papers they should lead their lives accordingly (eg get on with their jobs - in Kate's case: get one!) and to think their laments could change anything or make the media go away is just hopeless naivety that I wouldn't expect from the second in the line of the British throne and his girlfriend who obviously has not learned from her sisterhood media desaster experience some months ago. Both have no talent whatsoever in handling the media (make a deal and it will be easier) but are bold enough to blame them whenever it suits, an attitude adopted from the Prince of Wales. William lost a lot of credibility in the past months as he thinks he can do whatever he wants and impose some censorship on the media, where only the good things are mentioned (eg Diana memorial events) and the embarassing things are left out (eg clubbing), but this is not the way it works. He's not some twen after all but Prince William, funded by the British taxpayers, time to show some maturity and appropriate behaviour.
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2007, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Unfortunately this is not an ideal world but the british media reality and both Prince William and Ms Middleton should know by know the environment they are dealing with. You can't have both, a celebrity lifestyle and being left alone. As long as they do things that attract the paparazzi (eg binge drinking in an A List VIP club) they shouldn't complain about their picture being taken. If both did not want their pictures in the papers they should lead their lives accordingly (eg get on with their jobs - in Kate's case: get one!) and to think their laments could change anything or make the media go away is just hopeless naivety that I wouldn't expect from the second in the line of the British throne and his girlfriend who obviously has not learned from her sisterhood media desaster experience some months ago. Both have no talent whatsoever in handling the media (make a deal and it will be easier) but are bold enough to blame them whenever it suits, an attitude adopted from the Prince of Wales. William lost a lot of credibility in the past months as he thinks he can do whatever he wants and impose some censorship on the media, where only the good things are mentioned (eg Diana memorial events) and the embarassing things are left out (eg clubbing), but this is not the way it works. He's not some twen after all but Prince William, funded by the British taxpayers, time to show some maturity and appropriate behaviour.
Very well said. It's time these boys learned that both good and bad will be reported. Not that clubbing is a bad thing but it's not a good thing when one has no job, no direction and no grasp of reality.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:15 AM
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well whether we approve of their daily lives is besides the point. The newspapers did not print their pictures not because of what happened to Diana but probably because of something in the law and we are all equal to the law and they have the right to some measure of privacy.
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  #31  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:18 AM
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I strongly feel there is a big difference between taking pictures and trailing (read: stalking) people. As I indicated before, I don't begrudge the paparazzi for getting their nightclub pictures. What I am against is pursuit of them in their journey home as if they are game prey. They go to Mahiki or Boujis to binge drink, as DofM says, and to hobnob with celebrities, so of course, they must expect to attract attention. But chase them in their car? Make them feel threatened? That is crossing a line, imho. If you make someone feel uncomfortable, then stop doing what you're doing. Why would you press on? I understand, yes, there is money involved. But this is where society needs to look at itself and make a change. Too much is too much.
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:29 AM
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And I expect the attitude is "Oh what a lark". I think this is another case of the Royal Family overstepping the mark. The headline "William complains about press" looks much better than "William parties whilst Di inquest sits" doesn't it? Talk about censorship.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:33 AM
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censorship??

It would be a ridiculous headline about his partying and the inquest. There seems to be no end to this inquest, he can party all he wants without being disrespectful to his mother.


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And I expect the attitude is "Oh what a lark". I think this is another case of the Royal Family overstepping the mark. The headline "William complains about press" looks much better than "William parties whilst Di inquest sits" doesn't it? Talk about censorship.
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  #34  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:41 AM
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Oh come on. Whilst a jury is looking at pictures of his dead mother, he's partying? Ok the death headlines have been going for a while but this inquest is new. Couldn't he have held off for a few weeks?
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  #35  
Old 10-08-2007, 12:10 PM
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censorship??

It would be a ridiculous headline about his partying and the inquest. There seems to be no end to this inquest, he can party all he wants without being disrespectful to his mother.
Exactly, censorship. William wants people to show respect whenever HE feels it's suitable. When it comes down to William showing respect or some decent behaviour in public he fails - and blames the press for invading his privacy. At least I find it a strange attitude to - on the one hand - torture the media weeks before the Channel 4 programme (rather harmless, to be honest) and accuse them of being tasteless and disrespectful etc but on the other hand go out just hours before the programme is shown and buy all available booze at an Asda supermarket, obviously for a party.
There were others, more important or influencial people than Prince William who thought that they could dictate the press what to say or write and failed - either you work with them or they make your life hell if they chose to. I don't say I think that's a good thing but it simply works like that and the faster he understands the better. The media plays an not so unimportant part for the monarchy so it's the wrong decision to go to war with them. If William (and Kate) want to be taken seriously they should start behaving seriously.
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  #36  
Old 10-08-2007, 12:40 PM
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I hope things go better this time around for those two than they did before. I have to confess though, that I like Harry and Chelsy's relationship more now; they seem to be on a more equal footing than Wills and Kate.

Wills seems to do whatever he wants and Kate "deals" with it, whereas Chelsy is much more independent (though it helps that she such financial advantages and a good, supportive family) and goes after what she wants regardless of what Harry is doing.

I still like Kate, I just wish we would hear more about what she does when she is away from Wills --- one cannot really live on love alone :)
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  #37  
Old 10-08-2007, 12:42 PM
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Well, she won't be living on love alone. She'll be living on taxpayers money and money is the biggest aphrodisiac known to man (and women). If she marries him of course.
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  #38  
Old 10-08-2007, 01:01 PM
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If William (and Kate) want to be taken seriously they should start behaving seriously.
Indeed they should. The trouble is, as Charles and then Diana both found, that if you're doing both serious and frivolous things the press will ignore the serious ones in favour of concentrating on the latter, and then it makes it look as though the serious stuff hasn't happened. But I assume this is why the royals have press offices.
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  #39  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:00 PM
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I hope things go better this time around for those two than they did before. I have to confess though, that I like Harry and Chelsy's relationship more now; they seem to be on a more equal footing than Wills and Kate.

Wills seems to do whatever he wants and Kate "deals" with it, whereas Chelsy is much more independent (though it helps that she such financial advantages and a good, supportive family) and goes after what she wants regardless of what Harry is doing.

I still like Kate, I just wish we would hear more about what she does when she is away from Wills --- one cannot really live on love alone :)
I don't entirely disagree. I understand you completely. My only doubt comes from the parity between Chelsy and Kate. Truthfully, it seems to me that their situations are starkly different. While the paparazzi seemed to leave Chelsy alone after the first fortnight or so of her life at Leeds, they seem to find that there is more money in stalking Kate. We have pics of Kate every week, while with Chelsy, maybe every four weeks if we're lucky. Hence the stronger liklihood of seeing Kate walking down a street appearing to do nothing besides shopping or going to "work" or a club, whatever. With pics of Chelsy, it's more likely there is something happening or she is doing something somehow "newsworthy", like beginning at Leeds, being released from the hospital, watching polo, jetting off somewhere. We see more of Kate, and consequently see more of her and become used to her doing this or that, seemingly doing "nothing" (i.e. "whatelse does she do? anything else?) But just because we see pics of Kate or William, or both together, once or twice a week at a club, it doesn't necessarily mean they are doing it everyday. It just means they are doing it once or twice a week, if that.
Don't most people of their age go to clubs once or twice a week? I'm sure Chelsy is also going to an average of a party or two per week, but we don't see the pictures all the time, or most of the time for that matter. Comparing them is really like comparing apples and oranges. The situations are too different.
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  #40  
Old 10-08-2007, 03:04 PM
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Oh come on. Whilst a jury is looking at pictures of his dead mother, he's partying? Ok the death headlines have been going for a while but this inquest is new. Couldn't he have held off for a few weeks?
I'm not singling you out, Beatrixfan, but your post reminded me of a question that has been floating around my brain, looking for an outlet.

Has it occured to anyone that maybe the reason he's drinking more now is because of the inquest?

I get the feeling that he's taking refuge in alcohol because it's starting for him all over again, ten years later -- especially with him being so close to his mother. He's acting out, but it took years for him to really start. I can't speak for Kate's behavior, but we have 2 people who may or may not be up to snuff in the maturity department dealing with a terrible event (especially for him) in the only way they may know how.

I know, why doesn't he just get some sort of psychological help? Considering what he watched his mother go through, I'd say he's pretty cynical about psychiatry, not to mention it's not something really encouraged in royal circles.

And lest anyone gets the idea that I'm just making excuses for William's behavior, I'm not. I'm just trying to get to the heart of things.
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