William, Harry and girlfriends and the press

[Mermaid1962]

As in, "More than just a little bit pompous."

Originally Posted by MARG

Well . . . let's see, ummm, erm, isn't that a bit like saying Princess Marie is "quite" pregnant?

[MARG]

Sorry Mermaid, sometimes humour doesn't travel well. I meant that to say that Whitaker quite pompous just as a woman is a little pregnant.'' Either she is or isn't . . . . there isn't any middle ground, so Whitaker is (to me) obviously a totally pompous prat!

[Idriel]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

It amuses me when the media 'demand' they should be performing more royal duties... what exactly. There are only so many openings, ribbon cuttings etc and lets be fair, you have to share them out with the senior royals who are probably the ones invited.

I'm sure everyone would be heartily sick of them if they were performing every day of the week, every month of the year!

Well of course Royal engagement are boring, which is why they are mostly ignored by the press.
But Royals are not entertainers so I think that's beside the point.
What matters is that the people they meet are usually happy and honored to be paid a visit by a member of their royal family.

Originally Posted by MARG

A. I can join the family firm, live in a goldfish bowl, shake hands with endless people. I can also bow, smile gritting my teeth, cut endless ribbons and have journo's writing screeds about how I've taken the soft option and should have got a real job! Or,

B. Fly helicopters, save people, have a real job, and get to wear really cool sunnies. And as an added bonus, the endless whining of media about my shirking my "Royal Duties" will be drowned out by the sound of my rotors!

Journalists would certainly not slag William for doing royal duties. He is a Royal and that is what he is expected to do.

If anything, he is perceived to be mostly playing toy soldier so it's his military career which causes the most criticism.
And yes, a royal engagement is often a very dull event for the royal ('And what do you do?) but that is the price they have to pay for their status and humongous privileges in life.
Meeting and greeting is how they earn their keep. It's not extravagant to expect them to do it.

[Mermaid1962]

It's okay, Marg...I got you the first time. Hence my "wink."

Originally Posted by MARG

Sorry Mermaid, sometimes humour doesn't travel well. I meant that to say that Whitaker quite pompous just as a woman is a little pregnant.'' Either she is or isn't . . . . there isn't any middle ground, so Whitaker is (to me) obviously a totally pompous prat!

[kimebear]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Yes it does need to be changed, as for blaming William, that would be equivalent to suggesting because there was nobody to take payment for the packet of sweets, he was not to blame for slipping them into his pocket without paying. Being a prince should mean you lead by example, taking advantage is not an example I would want any of my children to follow.

That is hardly a fair comparison. You can't equate something illegal like the theft of a packet of sweets to William taking advantage of an existing rule that could have been used by non royal others in the same position. This is a straw man argument.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by kimebear

That is hardly a fair comparison. You can't equate something illegal like the theft of a packet of sweets to William taking advantage of an existing rule that could have been used by non royal others in the same position..

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

[Idriel]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

Agreed completely.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

Hear hear.

[kimebear]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Slightly unfair perhaps but in reality, he has possibly stolen the place of someone better qualified for the job. He is now seen as a cheat, who will use any and every loophole to get what he wants. As far as I an aware, which only consists of asking people I know in the RAF, the loophole has never been accepted before.

Lets face it, it just doesn't look good .... he was awarded his wings earlier than has ever been heard of, he failed to tell the truth to his CO regarding the flights in the helicopters, he allowed his immediate superiors to take the blame for said flights and then apparently cheats his way onto a SAR pilots course. None of which are recommendations for a future king or an officer. All IMO of course.

I think I would be more concerned with the place he "possibly stole" if he was making a career out of the military instead of just getting an overall experience of it. The place will still be there later when he acquires full time royal responsibilities.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by kimebear

I think I would be more concerned with the place he "possibly stole" if he was making a career out of the military instead of just getting an overall experience of it. The place will still be there later when he acquires full time royal responsibilities.

He is, for the time being, making it his career, that is why he has signed on for the minimum three years with SARs.

"The place will still be there"

I'm afraid it doesn't quite work like that in the RAF, in three years the person who was potentially pushed aside may be too old to start the training, (as William is incidentally), he may have decided to leave, after all it might have been his childhood dream to make a full time career out of it or he might have been 'encouraged' to take on another trade, where he will be unhappily employed until he can get out. The RAF or any military arm isn't the same as working at Walmart or any office!

If William has no intention of making a full time career out of the RAF, it is a massive waste of time, resources and, (that old chestnut), taxpayers money!

[MARG]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

If William has no intention of making a full time career out of the RAF, it is a massive waste of time, resources and, (that old chestnut), taxpayers money!

Given the longevity of the BRF I think the RAF may at least "break even".

[Skydragon]

Not if he only stays for three years!

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

If William has no intention of making a full time career out of the RAF, it is a massive waste of time, resources and, (that old chestnut), taxpayers money!

..... just as every member of the royal family ever getting involved in the forces, for that matter!

Interesting to imagine what the reactions of the press would have been if William, at age 22 on graduating from St Andrews, had instead chosen to work in the City, full time, and just not bothered with any time in the forces. "Wills deserts military", "Royals unwilling to support our soldiers", "Commander-in-Chief with no military experience".....

[Duke of Marmalade]

the point is that if william joins the training in order to get his wings, let him earn his wings like anybody else and not because a special extra training designed for him to succeed in 13 in not in 77 weeks.

yes he should have a stint with the military but there is no need to "decorate" him for something he hasn't earned one bit. unlike decades ago, people not only question but resent the royal family for quite obviously taking personal advantage because of who they are (william is only one example).

it only fits into what is on top of societies' "most annoyance list" these days, like people being rewarded for failure or benefitting because of who they are and not what they have achieved so far, mainly in all these so called "leading circles", eg politicians who used to be thought of as role models but have become one big nepotism shadow society. these days it's only about What's in it for me, and not what's in it for society who by the way pay these people's wages. sad to see royalty being more and more part of this self-service shop mentality.

[kimebear]

I have faith in Prince Charles and HM to advise William on an acceptable method to go about his military career, short lived as it may be. I would be suprised to find out that he is proceeding without their knowledge and consent.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by muriel

..... just as every member of the royal family ever getting involved in the forces, for that matter!

Charles was in the Navy for 5 years and completed the full training in the navy. Although he had a taster of the other services, it was just a taster and the training back then for the RAF was a much shorter course because the crafts were not as technical. Andrew, as we know completed a full career in the Navy, even if at the end he was zoomed into a position that was questioned.

"Commander-in-Chief with no military experience".....

HM served for a very short time and has no experience of being in the Navy, Army or Airforce, she was in the ATS which at the time was not considered to be anything, it was better than making munitions or becoming a Landgirl.

Following your apparent thinking, as William has no religious training, is he fit to be Head of the Church?

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

the point is that if william joins the training in order to get his wings, let him earn his wings like anybody else and not because a special extra training designed for him to succeed in 13 in not in 77 weeks

Exactly

[Lady Claire]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

the point is that if william joins the training in order to get his wings, let him earn his wings like anybody else and not because a special extra training designed for him to succeed in 13 in not in 77 weeks.

yes he should have a stint with the military but there is no need to "decorate" him for something he hasn't earned one bit. unlike decades ago, people not only question but resent the royal family for quite obviously taking personal advantage because of who they are (william is only one example).

it only fits into what is on top of societies' "most annoyance list" these days, like people being rewarded for failure or benefitting because of who they are and not what they have achieved so far, mainly in all these so called "leading circles", eg politicians who used to be thought of as role models but have become one big nepotism shadow society. these days it's only about What's in it for me, and not what's in it for society who by the way pay these people's wages. sad to see royalty being more and more part of this self-service shop mentality.

I totally agree and could not have said it any better!

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

If William has no intention of making a full time career out of the RAF, it is a massive waste of time, resources and, (that old chestnut), taxpayers money!

Do you think that's also true of Charles's naval career? I mean, I know he stayed in the Navy for several years after training, but everyone knew he wasn't going to make a career out of being a naval officer.

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Do you think that's also true of Charles's naval career? I mean, I know he stayed in the Navy for several years after training, but everyone knew he wasn't going to make a career out of being a naval officer.

Exactly the point I was making!

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

the point is that if william joins the training in order to get his wings, let him earn his wings like anybody else and not because a special extra training designed for him to succeed in 13 in not in 77 weeks.

yes he should have a stint with the military but there is no need to "decorate" him for something he hasn't earned one bit. unlike decades ago, people not only question but resent the royal family for quite obviously taking personal advantage because of who they are (william is only one example).

it only fits into what is on top of societies' "most annoyance list" these days, like people being rewarded for failure or benefitting because of who they are and not what they have achieved so far, mainly in all these so called "leading circles", eg politicians who used to be thought of as role models but have become one big nepotism shadow society. these days it's only about What's in it for me, and not what's in it for society who by the way pay these people's wages. sad to see royalty being more and more part of this self-service shop mentality.

Thats a fair point, and one that the RAF and MoD would have arrived at a view on. I have no doubt that the programme of secondments to the various services would have been drawn up by the MoD and the RAF / the Army / the navy in consultation with CH, but I think it is hardly likely that CH would have called the chief of the RAF and asked that Wills be given his wings in 13 wks!