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  #1121  
Old 05-23-2010, 12:28 PM
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Thank you for this info, Warren!
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  #1122  
Old 05-28-2010, 04:04 PM
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I always feel especially sorry for the woman when a relationship drags on and on, without a wedding in sight. People here may think me an old fogey...which I probably am... but a woman's best childbearing years can vanish very quickly.

I also hold the traditional position that the royal family should strive to live out examples of Christian virtue to their peoples. Folks may laugh at this, but up until recent decades, this was the normal, healthy expectation of both RF and subjects. William and Kate's long-term relationship, without the benefit of matrimony, gives a poor moral example to other young people. Of course, the previous generation of royals were no shining stars themselves in this area, I know. But William is a future king, and he must consider the moral climate of his future peoples and try to better it.

Old-fashioned? Yes, and I might get flamed for this; but that is my two cents.
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  #1123  
Old 05-28-2010, 05:19 PM
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I'm old-fashioned too. But whats wrong with dating for awhile and getting married later? I want to get married in my thirties and I don't think anythings wrong with that. I agree with the Christian virtues, but I don't think not marrying now is against God's will. But I get what you're saying about the RF being a good example. Nowadays, everythings sooo different. Couples live together now, stay engaged for years, etc. The old-fashioned ways and good examples barely exist now.

If a woman genuinely wants to marry and the guy is dragging it on, then I agree that it is wrong. Kind of like Jennifer Aniston in the movie "He's Just Not That Into You". Maybe Will is not dragging Kate along, maybe she wants to wait. Although I highly doubt that. Since he will be future king, I don't think there's any harm is making sure he's sure about his future queen.
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  #1124  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:16 PM
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I certainly won't flame you, because I agree with you. The problem is that society has moved on from the idea of Christian virtues, and monarchies eventually reflect where the rest of the nation goes. The western world is very much a post-Christian world...not that I think that this is a positive thing at all. William and Harry have grown up in a very different cultural context than their grandmother. As a matter of fact, I have no expectation of any younger member of the royal family having a deep, personal Christian faith. So in that sense, I'm not disappointed.


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Originally Posted by AuntyTam View Post
I also hold the traditional position that the royal family should strive to live out examples of Christian virtue to their peoples..
  #1125  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:47 PM
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Anyone else getting excited about supposed events happening in this upcoming week?

Tina Brown's dates were the 3rd/4th June weren't they? So come Thursday or Friday Kate should be officially engaged shouldn't she?
  #1126  
Old 05-28-2010, 09:08 PM
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Interesting how this weeks' events have kind of put William and Kate on the backburner, eh? Yes, lets see what happens next week. Will Kate be on the balconey for the Trooping? Will Kate be at Royal Ascot--in a carriage? Watch this space, as they say.
  #1127  
Old 05-28-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Anyone else getting excited about supposed events happening in this upcoming week?

Tina Brown's dates were the 3rd/4th June weren't they? So come Thursday or Friday Kate should be officially engaged shouldn't she?
I doubt it since Wills be doing this on the 4th:

The Prince of Wales - Friday 4th June 2010

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Prince William will open the new Help for Heroes Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court. The Prince will make a short speech, view the specially designed bass relief, tour the new facilities and attend a reception for supporters and injured servicemen, Headley Court, Headley, Epsom, Surrey.
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  #1128  
Old 05-29-2010, 12:02 AM
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The problem is that society has moved on from the idea of Christian virtues, and monarchies eventually reflect where the rest of the nation goes.
This is what I have a problem with. Traditionally, royalty and nobility have led the way in moral example; they have been the leaders, not the followers, in upholding the best in society and culture. William, by going with the flow of his generation, is being a follower and not a leader.

When royalty and nobility don't lead in these areas, that's when republican-types rub their hands with glee and exclaim, "see, these folks are just good-for-nothing jetsetters"... and so lack of moral and cultural leadership ultimately leads to the elimination of these positions.

Personally, I don't think that "old-fashioned" morality and virtue are gone for good... these things often swing like a pendulum. Right now, our society is in a "revolutionary" phase, if you will. But by nature, royalty and aristocracy are "counterrevolutionary". When the pendulum swings back to the more traditional positions, I hope that William can do his duty and help to lead such a renaissance.

Pardon the length of this post. I feel very passionately about our RF, and simply want the best for them, and us.

As for June 3rd and 4th... well, I am a little excited; I mean, it might be true...
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  #1129  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:10 AM
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I think June 3rd or 4th is very likely because on June 3rd William isn't doing anything, and even though other members of the royal family have official engagements, they aren't really part of the engagement announcement. Charles & Diana, Andrew & Fergie, and Edward & Sophie all announced their respective engagements alone without the Queen or DofE. It's also before trooping the color, so that can be her first royal "event", and Ascot, I guess we'll just have to wait and see and not get our hopes to high, all though I already am!
  #1130  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntyTam View Post
I always feel especially sorry for the woman when a relationship drags on and on, without a wedding in sight. People here may think me an old fogey...which I probably am... but a woman's best childbearing years can vanish very quickly.

I also hold the traditional position that the royal family should strive to live out examples of Christian virtue to their peoples. Folks may laugh at this, but up until recent decades, this was the normal, healthy expectation of both RF and subjects. William and Kate's long-term relationship, without the benefit of matrimony, gives a poor moral example to other young people. Of course, the previous generation of royals were no shining stars themselves in this area, I know. But William is a future king, and he must consider the moral climate of his future peoples and try to better it.

Old-fashioned? Yes, and I might get flamed for this; but that is my two cents.


Would you buy a car without test driving it? Buy a house sight-unseen? No you wouldn't. There's nothing wrong with being together for a while before you decide to get married. How else are they to know how compatible they are, in all areas? Would you rather the opposite, where they know squat about each other, get married and then wind up divorced? Like his parents? No thanks. Time marches on, either march with it or get left behind.
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  #1131  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:17 AM
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Count me in the old-fashioned camp, too. However, I don't expect William and Harry to follow those Christian standards of behaviour before marriage, because, as I once recently read in an article, Britain is a "post-Christian" society. (That goes for the rest of the Western world too.)

I do feel there's something not quite right with the way William and Kate's relationship is dragging out, though. Even in secular societies couples date for a few years and then get engaged and marry. It doesn't have to be the norm that relationships go on for a few years, the couple breaks up, the couple goes back to living together off and on, etc, etc, and then finally get engaged after 10 years of being together. Statistics even show that couples who live together before marriage are more likely to divorce. And I feel like some of the mystique brushes off the relationship when a couple is together for as long as William and Kate without any outward signs of long-term commitment. It could be just that Kate doesn't spark my interest or it could be that the relationship has dragged on so long, but when I was younger I used to think about how exciting it would be when Prince William picked a bride. (I used to imagine she'd be dark-haired--true story!) Now I find I really don't care. I'm sure that when William actually gets married it will be a great spectacle and exciting for a while, but after such a long courtship, it feels like an anticlimax.

I'm not opposed to couples dating for a few years or waiting until they're a little older to marry, either. And I know that once William and Kate marry, it will mean official duties, loss of freedom, etc. But that's something royal couples of other generations took as par for the course. Maybe it's because even in the general society, people knew that marriage meant more duties, more commitment, and were still willing to go ahead with it as young people.
  #1132  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:14 AM
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Why get "with it" if a person doesn't believe that "it" is right? A person has to be true to his/her own standards. The idea that people have to be physically intimate before marriage in order to have a happy one is something that has sprung up just in the last 30 years. If today's reasoning is true, the divorce rate should be much, much lower than it is.

A person isn't a car or a house.

I hope that Kate and William, no matter what the exact nature of their relationship is, have a happy marriage--even if it's to two other people.

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  #1133  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:20 AM
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Yes, what you say is true. It's so interesting to watch old movies now, because the couple always wanted to get married when they fell in love. That was the ideal that audiences were looking for...not simple sexual gratification. People used to look to Royalty as examples of ideals, but that's not the case anymore. The 90s' scandals in the UK brought an end to that. But as one poster said, things could turn around...and could turn around quickly if people get sick of today's hedonistic way of looking at life.

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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
. Maybe it's because even in the general society, people knew that marriage meant more duties, more commitment, and were still willing to go ahead with it as young people.
  #1134  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:23 AM
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I have a problem with the idea that royalty and nobility lead in terms of morals and values. It was more a case of do what I say not what I do as for centuries it was the royals and nobles who had mistresses and fathered many illigitimate children but now we exect them to be different to their own forebears.

What was Charles supposed to have said to Diana "Do you think that I will be the only Prince of Wales in history not to have a mistress?" Whether he actually said it isn't the point but rather that the sentiment shows that the 'leaders' in morality and values had different values to the rest of the population.

William will marry when he is ready, if he marries at all.

I remember reading, when these dates were first put forward, a statement that William will be training on those days so I will wait and see what happens but I am not holding my breath.
  #1135  
Old 05-29-2010, 03:19 AM
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You make a very good point. Didn't the whole idea of the "family monarchy" come about in Queen Victoria's time?

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have a problem with the idea that royalty and nobility lead in terms of morals and values. It was more a case of do what I say not what I do as for centuries it was the royals and nobles who had mistresses and fathered many illigitimate children but now we exect them to be different to their own forebears.
  #1136  
Old 05-29-2010, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
You make a very good point. Didn't the whole idea of the "family monarchy" come about in Queen Victoria's time?

To a large extent - yes.

It was done to show a real difference with the sons of George III but of course only lasted one generation with Victoria's sons and grandsons having affairs either before and/or after marriage, except for Arthur. It was reborn in the 1930s with George VI and is wife and children but now Elizabeth's children and grandchildren are showing more normal royal morals.
  #1137  
Old 05-29-2010, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jonc93 View Post
I think June 3rd or 4th is very likely because on June 3rd William isn't doing anything, and even though other members of the royal family have official engagements, they aren't really part of the engagement announcement. Charles & Diana, Andrew & Fergie, and Edward & Sophie all announced their respective engagements alone without the Queen or DofE. It's also before trooping the color, so that can be her first royal "event", and Ascot, I guess we'll just have to wait and see and not get our hopes to high, all though I already am!
William is meant to be training all next week, except presumably for his engagement on the fourth.
I doubt this is going to happen, just another year of speculation.

I wish William would/will date a few more girls before he settles down.
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  #1138  
Old 05-29-2010, 08:19 AM
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Does anyone find it just a bit of a coincidence that the day this woman said that W&K would get engaged is exactly the same date as her book comes out?
Seems to me a well thought out publicity stunt. :)
  #1139  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Does anyone find it just a bit of a coincidence that the day this woman said that W&K would get engaged is exactly the same date as her book comes out?
Seems to me a well thought out publicity stunt. :)
I believe the dates of the engagement were predicted by Tina Brown whereas the book "William and Harry" is authored by Katie Nicholl.
  #1140  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:51 AM
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I believe the dates of the engagement were predicted by Tina Brown whereas the book "William and Harry" is authored by Katie Nicholl.
Woops, major confusion.
Forget what I said.
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