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  #2221  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:56 AM
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I am afraid I disagree Warren. The royal family are very much used to dealing with eccentrics, as there are so many in the royal family and the upper classes. There were many nazi sympathisers and worse, among the gentry, in England just before the war and during it, which of course was not welcomed but was on the whole, glossed over very nicely.
An eccentric aunt, a very eccentric mother, some quite serious cases have been dealt with very deftly.
Uncle Gary I am afraid is a very different "kettle of fish" he is not upper class, he has shown himself as not unfamiliar with the drug and prostitution world. No, he is not going to be as easily brushed under the carpet as a kleptomaniac aunt or politically embarassing royal or aristocrat. He is not related to any of them, so there will not be the will to cover for him as for some others, he is just the very embarassing uncle of an heir´s girlfriend.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:28 AM
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I am afraid I disagree Warren. The royal family are very much used to dealing with eccentrics, as there are so many in the royal family and the upper classes. There were many nazi sympathisers and worse, among the gentry, in England just before the war and during it, which of course was not welcomed but was on the whole, glossed over very nicely.
An eccentric aunt, a very eccentric mother, some quite serious cases have been dealt with very deftly.
Uncle Gary I am afraid is a very different "kettle of fish" he is not upper class, he has shown himself as not unfamiliar with the drug and prostitution world. No, he is not going to be as easily brushed under the carpet as a kleptomaniac aunt or politically embarassing royal or aristocrat. He is not related to any of them, so there will not be the will to cover for him as for some others, he is just the very embarassing uncle of an heir´s girlfriend.
Here lies the double standard among some in the UK, an aristocrat can have the 'eccentric' family member or the drug addict and someone familiar with the drug scene and male prostitutes (Prince George DoK), dubious political links. But heaven above if someone dares rise 'above their station' in life. "Uncle' Gary started his working life as a plumber, he then used his business sense to build up a very successful software company which he sold and is now a very wealthy man. Since being 'outed' by NoW he has kept a very low profile, so while he's been an embarassment on one occasions he's staying off the media radar.

The whole 'Kate isn't worthy' argument due to her mother's background shows the ugly side of Britain's class ridden society. Carole Middleton is being criticised because she came from a working class background and how dare she aspire to anything better? Rather than saying 'good on her' for creating her own business which now employs 30 people (she created it not her husband) was able to send her children to very exclusive private schools, so exclusive that her children now mix with the titled. (How dare they!? Don't they know their place, working class only thank you very much. And doth your cap while you're at it!) Michael Middleton has escaped the criticism because he comes from a long middleclass line, so it's OK for him to have money and send children to private school. He's a class above.

Those at the top of the heap, (in this case William with his royal background, and the Queen who once said of Princess Michael "she's too grand for us") are far less classridden and snobbish (shall we say) than those who are permanently insecure of their own position in life and feel the need to constantly point out how 'common' others are whose origins were in the working classes.

It would be nice to think that in the 21st century classism is not the last bastian of racism in the UK.
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  #2223  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:12 AM
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Maybe the class system in GB is not to everyone´s liking, and people from a more egalitarian background find it difficult to understand it.
BTW I wonder if you really understood what the Queen meant with her remark about Christina of Kent?
One day the system will change but when it does I don´t think there will be a monarchy, if that is good or bad I have no idea and it doesn´t really matter as much to me as it might have done some time ago.
Uncle Gary made a fortune as a plumber, good for him, Carole made a fortune with a mail order company, good for her. I have no idea about the husband, he is far more discreet than the rest of the family but I have heard he is from middle class stock, I also have seen written somewhere that he isn´t but what does that matter?
What matters is that Uncle Gary and his video will hardly be forgotten for some time to come, it is a shame as I have a soft spot for Uncle Gary, the common man who has made good and spends his money the way he wants to in a rather vulgar way, but that is his business, but when he boasts that he will be a blood relation of the Queen people can´t help but look askance.
Perhaps the British class system isn´t to your liking (as well as to many others), perhaps in the future it will change.
By the way Queen and the royal family are not snobs, they are so highly born they don´t need to be, but I won´t say the same for the circle that surrounds them like bees round a hive. Perhaps Kate and her family have aimed too high or perhaps they are just ahead of their time.
Even Lady Diana had a hard time when she became a member of the BRF family as did Sarah Ferguson who had been familiar with them and their ways since childhood.
If Kate gets what she wants, and I suspect more what her family wants, I hope that she will adapt, especially to the Queen´s idea of duty. Her energy is astounding for a woman of her age, Prince Philip too. Noblesse oblige as they say.
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  #2224  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:54 AM
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There are a number of people who do not respect Charles as a man or future king if you read the comments on papers like the DM.

I actually think that there is an increasing attempt to get public opinion to reach the stage whereby Charles never becomes King with the ongoing attacks on everything he does e.g. the current demand to see the letters he has written to ministers and the condemnation of his buying of the house in Scotland.
Yes, I see that campaign against Charles too. I think what the media is trying to do is attack the royals over and over and over again until the impression stays in people's minds. For example, if the press calls Charles eccentric or out of touch often enough, even if they re-hash the same couple of facts each time to prove it, that's how people will view Charles. After awhile, even when people run into a balanced news article about Charles, they won't read it in full because they'll just think, "Oh, Charles, that doddering fool again." I think papers like the DM are exploiting this technique to the full, because they know that especially these days, people aren't critical readers or thinkers. And with the economic crisis, people are looking for an excuse to blame the rich and privileged for the world's problems.

Fans of the BRF shouldn't think that just because the royals have always been respected by a majority of people in the past, that they will continue to be respected. I'm sure that at one point in French history, people expected the monarchy to last forever. But the death knell of a privileged class is the moment the ordinary people start to experience real hardship, and then see the upper classes carrying on without a care in the world. If the world's economy doesn't recover, we'll probably see more and more of this in the world--people starting to really resent the upper classes for their comparative privilege. Especially if the media continues to fan the flames of resentment.

So I do think William has to be careful. He can't be complacent and think that he can do whatever he likes until he reaches his mid-30s, because his lifestyle is already out of touch with people of his own generation. I think the monarchy has to be somewhat relatable to the average "commoner", in the sense that they see the family life of the monarch as something they would aspire to themselves. I think this is why Queen Victoria with her large family was respected, and later King George VIII with his tight nuclear family, because they epitomized the ideals of the day. And it's why people lost respect for the monarchy during the 1980s and 1990s because of all the divorces in the younger generation. It isn't that members of the British public weren't getting divorced themslves, but they wanted to see members of the monarchy holding up a higher standard.

As far as William and Kate go, I don't think it's enough anymore that they get married "someday" and have a stable marriage. I know plenty of people in their late twenties who are not married, but they seem to fit one of three patterns: they are single and haven't found the right person; they have been dating someone for a long time but are completing higher education and preparing for high-powered careers and won't marry until they graduate; or they are living together and even having children together because they don't see marriage as important anymore or are waiting until they have enough money to afford it. William and Kate, especially Kate, don't really fit into any of those boxes. They aren't avoiding marriage because they can't afford it or because they are still in school (I don't count William's military training) or because they don't know each other well yet--the appearance is that they're avoiding it because they don't want to take on public responsibilities. I find that hard to relate to, especially with Kate. Many girls her age are waiting to marry, but most are doing it because they are actually still in school or building a career. Kate, on the other hand, hasn't made any ambitious career moves, but she's still guaranteed a life of privilege and wealth someday if she marries William. I think that's where the "Waity Katie" title could become damaging to her...if people her own age start to resent Kate because they are finding it hard to get jobs, or are going through years of education to get good jobs, while Kate is going to have wealth handed to her on a platter if she marries William.

If Kate and William were quietly married and doing a few royal duties, I think the press would still criticize them, but at least Kate would appear to be contributing to society.
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  #2225  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:21 PM
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IF BP was able to manage the Nazi associations of Prince Philip's German brothers-in-law in 1947 I'm sure they'll be able to "deal with" Uncle Gary in 2011-2012 or whenever.
Another riposte I am so glad I wasn't sipping my hot tea reading.
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  #2226  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:37 PM
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Oh, believe me...I CAN wait. I don't think KM is right for William. I am getting the same vague feeling of unease about this couple that I got about Diana/Charles(even though I thought Diana was a perfect Princess of Wales)

Something feels "off" about this couple and I hope he does not marry her.

ETA: That "Uncle Gary" of Kate's seems like a nightmare..can you imagine Buckingham Palace trying to deal with HIM??!
Why would BP have to deal with "Uncle Gary"?

If you really look at it.. BP does not in any way or form have anything to do with Tom or Laura (I hope I got the names right)... Camilla's children and her grandchildren. And if you look at it.. they stand to be kids and grandkids of a future Queen Consort. Will that matter when the time comes? I think not. Uncle Gary is waaaay down on the list of folks to worry about.
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  #2227  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
I hope that she will adapt, especially to the Queen´s idea of duty.
Why should she adapt to the "Queen's Idea of Duty" when/if Kate becomes Queen I think Her Majesty will have passed away?

Uncle Gary might not be forgotten, but I don't see how this affects Kate marrying into the royal family.
Kate is the one marrying in not her entire family, and yes they will still be there but they aren't going to move into BP with her are they?
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  #2228  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:39 PM
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Where did I say as Queen? If Kate marries the heir to the heir she will have to perform duties and God Willing her Majesty will live as long or longer than her mother.
Actually you have conjured up a fascinating image, Uncle Gary in his vest and beer belly waving to the crowd with a glass in his hand before retiring to his suite in the Palace.
Many times I have had to say, it is not Kate marrying into the royal family that worries me that much, it is Prince William marrying into her family.
I don´t think that the BRF will ever be like the Dutch Royal family, both kinds of royal family have their merits but they have a different outlook that is for sure.
Queen Beatrix is much closer to the people than HM and the Dutch people like this, I am not sure that the British public would. As always I could be wrong.
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  #2229  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:43 PM
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You didn't say as Queen, I did.

Yes she'll have to perform duties when HM is alive, but why does she have to live up to HM's "Idea of Duty", which was formed in the 50's.

I think if they do marry Uncle Gary, isn't going to be on the balcony with them. The way you talked about him there makes him seen like a lazy slob who is hell bent on making a spectacular of himself.

And what's the problem with William marrying into the Middletons, they aren't going to be around much except at specific events.
What does the Dutch Royal Family have to do with anything?
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  #2230  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:53 PM
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Actually the duty thing is a British royal family tradition not invented by The Queen.
Actually in the video we saw (you did see it didn´t you?) Uncle Gary did look exactly as you described him.
Even the specific events such as Christenings etc etc are too much for me.
As to the Dutch royal family, I don´t know why they come into my thoughts when I am writing in answer to you, just strange, isn´t it?. Perhaps because they are so different to the British, I love them, it is just that they are so down to earth and near the people whereas the British royal family has always been amiable, but at a distance.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:12 PM
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They are trying, as Walter Bagehot said "Not to let light in upon the magic." Although the media does it on a regular basis.
Personally, I think HM's Ideal of Duty is an excellent template for royals to work from.
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  #2232  
Old 09-17-2010, 02:30 AM
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I am afraid I disagree Warren. The royal family are very much used to dealing with eccentrics, as there are so many in the royal family and the upper classes. There were many nazi sympathisers and worse, among the gentry, in England just before the war and during it, which of course was not welcomed but was on the whole, glossed over very nicely.
An eccentric aunt, a very eccentric mother, some quite serious cases have been dealt with very deftly.
Uncle Gary I am afraid is a very different "kettle of fish" he is not upper class, he has shown himself as not unfamiliar with the drug and prostitution world. No, he is not going to be as easily brushed under the carpet as a kleptomaniac aunt or politically embarassing royal or aristocrat. He is not related to any of them, so there will not be the will to cover for him as for some others, he is just the very embarassing uncle of an heir´s girlfriend.
My point exactly, articulated much more effectively than myself.

That guy will probably make Sarah Ferguson seem like Queen Mary in retrospect, after only a year in the spotlight!
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  #2233  
Old 09-17-2010, 04:48 PM
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The difference is that Uncle Gary will never have a Royal title and will never be considered a member of the RF.

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My point exactly, articulated much more effectively than myself.

That guy will probably make Sarah Ferguson seem like Queen Mary in retrospect, after only a year in the spotlight!
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  #2234  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:01 PM
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Indeed, Mermaid! And may I just add that it is a Huge difference!
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  #2235  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:30 PM
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I wonder now that he has graduated from seach and rescue school and is a fully qualified pilot if this will have any impact upon an engagement/announcment anytime soon?
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  #2236  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:52 PM
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I wonder now that he has graduated from seach and rescue school and is a fully qualified pilot if this will have any impact upon an engagement/announcment anytime soon?
I don't see why this would make any difference to their plans. They have known that this was going to happen for a long time now so only if they had planned to announce an engagement after the graduation would we hear anything.
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  #2237  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:01 PM
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I guess not ILUVBERTIE. I was just thinking out loud!
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  #2238  
Old 09-17-2010, 11:54 PM
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The difference is that Uncle Gary will never have a Royal title and will never be considered a member of the RF.
Ronald Ferguson was not a member of the BRF and didn't have a title either...but does anyone remember Lesley Player and the massage parlor scandal?

He still had the ability to cause embarrassment.
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  #2239  
Old 09-18-2010, 03:18 AM
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I don't remember that Major Ferguson caused any embarrassment to the RF as such, although his actions must have been embarrassing to his daughter. I don't think that anyone thought less of Sarah because of it.


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Ronald Ferguson was not a member of the BRF and didn't have a title either...but does anyone remember Lesley Player and the massage parlor scandal?

He still had the ability to cause embarrassment.
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  #2240  
Old 09-18-2010, 03:53 AM
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Graduation day for Prince William, the search and rescue helicopter pilot | Mail Online

Once he gets into the swing of the job, he will turn his mind to proposing to girlfriend Kate Middleton sources suggested. ‘William has been too busy to think about a wedding,’ said one. ‘Once he’s into the routine he’ll be more free to think about arranging a date.’
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