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  #1481  
Old 08-17-2009, 11:32 PM
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Oh, dear, I lost the previous message .... thank you for the welcome Zonk. :)

I just want to say that I appreciate all opinions, even those differing from my own - it's good to get another perspective on things. :)

In terms of Kate: I'm very confident that on the balance of probabilities, Kate has taken it easy since University. Certain facts are known, thus, even beyond a reasonable doubt, it is known that Kate hasn't really worked hard or constantly.

But if some want to dispute that, it's fine with me. This isn't a courtroom.

I do believe that some of her choices have been very odd if she considers herself a contender as William's bride. Now, this is speculation: does it indicate a wilful streak?

I do believe the articles wherein HM is allegedly perplexed at Kate's lassez-faire lifestyle choices - simply because it makes sense. But that is merely my opinion. I do believe that William asked Kate to get a job. I also believe that Kate suddenly got a job at PP after her swanning around doing nothing productive and one too many negative articles were published. All of these things would most likely not be considered a coincidence on the balance of probabilities.

But if others don't believe that Kate is unmotivated, lazy, spoilt or whatever, that is their prerogative, naturally. As I said, I prefer to see goods before I buy them. Others take chances on the internet.

It's a bit like doing a University thesis - a very voluminous and important undertaking - you have to submit it in stages, so that your professor can see your progress. You don't submit it at the end when it's too late for changes. The professor likes to see what you have accomplished on your own and that you have the "goods" so to speak.

That is the analogy I use for Kate. Becoming a princess will not change her work ethic - it is inherent within a person, like QEII. I just don't believe that she will "cut the mustard" to use the vernacular - and I think it will be a sad indictment and end to QEII's reign.

In answer to your question, no, there is nothing wrong with living at home at 27. But it stunts one's personal growth. And, it gives Kate's detractors more reason to apply the "Waity Katie" tag.

You are very honest to suggest that, should you be able to afford it, you would also go on as many vacations as Kate. You refer to her as a 'rich girl' - thus that is common ground. You have therefore agreed that she has it easy.

Where you dissent is that you think she is a 'private person' thus entitled to do as she pleases. That is true. And the taxpayers of Britain are entitled to say that they don't wish to pay for this woman. It works both ways because should Kate marry William, she will depend upon the public's goodwill, and for whom, eventually will be taking a lot of taxpayer money to support their lifestyle.

I don't want to see Australia have another excuse to become a republic, which I fear will happen if the current younger crop of royals don't learn some respect, in the same way their grandmother is duty-bound and hard working. Perhaps it's my age. But I want the monarchy to hark back to more traditional times and standards; otherwise, I feel that it will cease to be relevant. Royals aren't supposed to be like us. And, because of their power and wealth, they never will be. So when they pretend that they are, it becomes offensive to some.
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  #1482  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:04 AM
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As much as I don't want to, I have to agree with you Paris.

I too, thought Kate was a great choice for William -- but then I started wondering if she is a great choice as the next queen of GB?

she seemed to have a lot of excellent qualities at first. But then, little snipped I read here and there made me take on a different opinion.

I do not like making comments or making up my mind on things I know next to nothing about, so this is just my vague opinion based on what i read AND on my personal life.

So Kate doesn't have a "real" job, what's the big deal? Well the biggest deal in my eyes is that working (full time or part time) teaches one how to handle different people from different backgrounds who probably has different opinions. How to navigate tough social situations where everyone disagrees? How to resolve issues without causing a stir before it turns into a huge bombshell? These are several issues one can learn best while in the workforce.

Also, working teaches one about their strengths and challenges. Eventually, one will use this knowledge to better him/herself and to use it to their advantage (or in a future monarch's case, to serve the country).

Yes, I know that Kate went to Uni and mingled with ordinary people before meeting William. But in my personal experience, I learned more about myself in the past 5-6 years in the work force than I ever did in college and adolescence combined. And learning to deal with people and conflicts? University life can only teach so much about "socialization" before it must give way to "real life." In a school setting, one has the liberty of choosing whom to mingle and hang out with. In the workforce, that freedom is severely restricted, and one has to learn how to deal with it.

While I understand that many future English monarchs don't have the opportunity to get so-called "real life experience in the ordinary work force," (which means that William has the same weaknesses as Kate), children of millionaires have a somewhat easier access to it. Kate should be bringing something to the table what William cannot.

But I hope I will be proven wrong -- although I have not seen any evidence that will help me change my mind.
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  #1483  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
I don't want to see Australia have another excuse to become a republic, which I fear will happen if the current younger crop of royals don't learn some respect
I fail to see the relevance between this younger generation of foreign royals and a prospective Australian republic. They, as foreign princes', have nothing to do with Australia in any official or legally acknowledged capacity. It is only the sovereign (their grandmother) who bears any constitutional significance within this Commonwealth.

We are a monarchy of one and not a monarchy of 'many'.

It's not likely, imo, that William would even become King of Australia. And should he become King of this nation, his Queen will be a foreign dignitary in the highest regard. Nothing more. She would be obliged the courtesy of her foreign style(s) and title(s), but she would be of no significance here, just as the Duke of Edinburgh is of no importance.

Quote:
I want the monarchy to hark back to more traditional times and standards
Though this will not happen. It's now about trying to preserve the relevance of this institution in the 21st century. In a sense, going backwards to come forwards just wouldn't work; certainly not after its commercialisation these past years with the opening of royal residences to create revenue and with greater media acceptance within the inner sanctum which has resulted in such documentaries as Elizabeth R, MONARCHY and The Queen's Castle. A new foundation has been laid. A new approach. A required approach.

Remaining relevant requires social and cultural adherence. It can't be fought, they can't afford to fight it, they must move with the times. Whether deemed wrong by some and right by others, it is what it is and what it is, is what it has become.
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  #1484  
Old 08-18-2009, 08:40 AM
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ParisJackson, how do you see Will and Kate as a couple in comparison to the rest of the Crown princely couples of Europe?
Has it occured to anyone that maybe the Queen has asked Will&Kate to wait it out to see if their feelings are genuine etc. like she is rumoured to do with Ed&Sophie?
  #1485  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:18 AM
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Queen Elizabeth waited a long time before she could marry Philip, but the reason for this was that she was a child, but she had fallen in love in no time. I have no idea how long the Queen was supposed to ask Edward and Sophie to wait to find out their true feelings but with all the numbers bandied about it seems if William and Kate have waited about eight years - well if they don´t know by now then it is time to quit.
As far as the BRF and the other European RFs well there has never been much really to compare, they are about as different as chalk and cheese, related by blood or not, and I have never thought of the BRF as being as liberal minded as their Continental relations, this could be good, then again it could be bad but it is just the way I see it.
  #1486  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:33 AM
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Why 2011 is out ....

2011 Will be the year Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh celebrates his 90TH BIRTHDAY with a full year of celebrations and royal events.

I just cannot see William marrying in that year and taking the attention away from the grandfather he adores.

I might be wrong but I thought 2011 the Queen wants that to be Prince Philip's year to thank him for all his service over the years.

A 90th birthday is a big round of celebratations ... but again it is up to William.
  #1487  
Old 08-18-2009, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
Why 2011 is out ....

2011 Will be the year Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh celebrates his 90TH BIRTHDAY with a full year of celebrations and royal events.
I doubt there will be much more than a private reception. The Duke is not about lavish celebrations and hates people making a fuss about him as a person. Despite his achievements and commitment that stands out among consorts he is no vain spotlight seeker than others who even complain about the fact that they are called Prince consort and not King consort

But back to William. 2011 is out due to his military career, I highly doubt he will walk down the isle without completing his education as a search and rescue pilot first - what will rule out a wedding for some more years. No need for him to rush anyway, he has 10 more years before people will start asking funny questions, the sort of questions that surround Prince Albert.
  #1488  
Old 08-18-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
As far as the BRF and the other European RFs well there has never been much really to compare, they are about as different as chalk and cheese, related by blood or not, and I have never thought of the BRF as being as liberal minded as their Continental relations, this could be good, then again it could be bad but it is just the way I see it.
My question was to ParisJackson how she saw Will&Kate in comparison to the Europeans, regarding their work ethics as she complained about Kate not having enough for the hard job of future monarch. Did Fred/Mary, WA/Maxima, etc. have the same work ethic they have today, way back when they were dating?
  #1489  
Old 08-18-2009, 10:49 AM
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Sorry auntie, I wasn´t answering your post really, just thinking out loud about the waiting time. ParisJ is in Australia so no doubt the time zones interfere a lot with questions and answers and he will answer your question soon.
I have no idea what Maxima did before she married but Mary was working and has a law degree and I have heard praise from Danes about the dedication and hard work she has put into learning Danish, which for her was a foreign language. She definitely doesn´t seem work shy, and from what we can see from European magazines etc Maxima seems to be a very active CP and mother.
  #1490  
Old 08-18-2009, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
Why 2011 is out ....
2011 Will be the year Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh celebrates his 90TH BIRTHDAY with a full year of celebrations and royal events.
Do you know of any events planned for the DofE's 90th?
Doubtful it'll be an all oujt celebration as you suggest. Maybe a dinner at the ritz with family and a salute of some kind but otherwise I imagine it being a quiet affair.

I can't see how anyone can compare William and Kate to the CP couples of europe. I can see the fact that Will's is the heir to the throne like Frederik, Felipe, Wilhelm, Phillipe and Haakon. But thats about all thats the same.
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  #1491  
Old 08-18-2009, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I doubt there will be much more than a private reception. The Duke is not about lavish celebrations and hates people making a fuss about him as a person. Despite his achievements and commitment that stands out among consorts he is no vain spotlight seeker than others who even complain about the fact that they are called Prince consort and not King consort
Agreed. There will probably be a private party. Perhaps they'll give a nod to him during Trooping the Colour that year, as his birthday is usually very close to that event. But there won't be any major public events.
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  #1492  
Old 08-18-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
I have no idea how long the Queen was supposed to ask Edward and Sophie to wait to find out their true feelings but with all the numbers bandied about it seems if William and Kate have waited about eight years - well if they don´t know by now then it is time to quit.
I'm not sure that William and Kate aren't marrying because they're undecided about whether they should marry. People take just take longer to grow up than they used to, and postpone marriage. People often have things they want to do before getting married, and for William it's his RAF training.

As for Kate's supposedly "laissez-faire" attitude to work, I've always thought it didn't speak well for Kate that she didn't have a full-time job after university, and then that she ended up working for her parents. I think it helps people mature when they have a lot of different experiences in life, and it speaks well of their work ethic. But wherever Kate works, she'll now be accused of "cashing in on her connections." That's the downside of being a royal (or even someone dating a royal!) In a way I think Kate is being smart by keeping a low profile. It's really hard to win as a royal--work, don't work, both can give you bad publicity in the end.

And I agree with Mermaid1962 that the press is very negative nowadays. Positive articles about the royals are much rarer than negative ones. People have become too cynical to buy into a fairytale portrayal of anyone.

Quote:
Why 2011 is out ....

2011 Will be the year Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh celebrates his 90TH BIRTHDAY with a full year of celebrations and royal events.

I just cannot see William marrying in that year and taking the attention away from the grandfather he adores.

I might be wrong but I thought 2011 the Queen wants that to be Prince Philip's year to thank him for all his service over the years.

A 90th birthday is a big round of celebratations ... but again it is up to William.
I'm kind of tired of hearing that royals won't marry in this or that year because there's such-and-such a celebration in that year. A 60th birthday is a big deal for most people, yet Princess Margaret was married the year the Queen Mother turned 60 and Andrew and Sarah were married the year the Queen turned 60. I'm not sure William would get married in the Diamond Jubilee year, but other than that, I'm sure there's ways of working things out to have two celebrations in one year.
  #1493  
Old 08-18-2009, 04:11 PM
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Prince Charles has the same position as the heirs you've mentioned, lumutqueen. William's the next generation down. This is why I think that William doesn't do as many public engagements as Prince Charles did at his age.

Prince William's turn will come; and it's my opinion that, until he's The heir to the throne, he should take advantage of his relative privacy. This is why I've never jumped on the "William should do more and Kate's lazy" bandwagon...not that I'm suggesting that that's what you've said. I'm "just saying..."


Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
I can't see how anyone can compare William and Kate to the CP couples of europe. I can see the fact that Will's is the heir to the throne like Frederik, Felipe, Wilhelm, Phillipe and Haakon. But thats about all thats the same.
  #1494  
Old 08-18-2009, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lumutqueen View Post
Do you know of any events planned for the DofE's 90th?
Doubtful it'll be an all oujt celebration as you suggest. Maybe a dinner at the ritz with family and a salute of some kind but otherwise I imagine it being a quiet affair.

I can't see how anyone can compare William and Kate to the CP couples of europe. I can see the fact that Will's is the heir to the throne like Frederik, Felipe, Wilhelm, Phillipe and Haakon. But thats about all thats the same.

William is NOT the heir to the throne. Charles is.

William is in the same position as the children of the people you mention not them at all e.g. the same position as Prince Christian of Denmark.
  #1495  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:29 AM
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I was watching the news tonight here in Canada, and both CBC and CTV reported on William and Kate coming to an "understanding" that they would marry by 2011...

The story seems to have come straight from NOTW: CTV even reported the quote from the friend telling William "You're next" at the Van Cutsem wedding.
  #1496  
Old 08-19-2009, 04:09 AM
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Kurenai: the points you make I totally agree with. It isn't healthy for one to be able to control almost every aspect of their own environment - and it's quite destructive. Just take a look at Michael Jackson - seemingly a result of him being able to have too much control, and more than what was healthy for him it seems.

Working with others teaches you humility and it results in personal growth.

Madame Royale: in the greatest of respect, I think you may have missed my point - I may not have articulated it in the best manner, so I apologise for that.

It is well known in Oz that once QEII passes on, the republic debate will re-open. It is only out of respect for her that it will not occur beforehand. For my submission, it is entirely irrelevant as to who is on the throne currently and whether or not the monarch exercises any real power in Australia. It's about whether or not Australians want to continue having any monarch and whether or not we want to continue with our current constitution or change it. Of course, QEII's heirs have influence over this issue because they are the ones who will represent the British monarchy after she is deceased. If they shape up, we may retain the status quo. I do think this is why William is coming to Oz next year - it's a way of introducing the younger heir to the throne, because Charles is extremely unpopular here. There is evidence, but I'm afraid I'm going way off-topic.

I tend to agree with your second point but one can always dream. :)

auntie: as to Mary's work ethic and accomplishments - she certainly had done way more than Kate in her own right. Mary was nothing if not a "go-getter". Some might use another word, but I'll stick with that ... she had a reasonable degree from quite possibly Australia's last ranked public university, but that is still an accomplishment. She has never qualified to practise law, but rather took a more "glamorous" approach to her career - which was quite unstable. But she worked. Constantly. And without assistance from anyone until she met Fred. Mary was completely independent from her family at a very young age. She was motivated. Her personal independence, motivation and growth were most likely what won Fred's heart - directly or indirectly - because he clearly needed a strong woman to tackle the job (and leave her home and family to boot). Independence and personal growth is appealing. It's desirable, draws people to you, knowing they don't have to carry you, and it shows strength of character. It's disappointing that it is so underrated where Kate is concerned. I don't care for Mary, for independent reasons, but I have to give her credit where it is due. And, for me, she gets top marks here; in fact, I'd even say that I admire her for it.

I'm not acquainted well enough with the other European princesses to make a fair and reasonable opinion. The only thing I do know is that Maxima is allegedly very bright and has an interest in microfinance. Letizia also held a high profile career. So, none of them can be compared to Kate - unless Kate is presented as a joke by comparison. Mary was only 28 when she met Fred, and she already had accomplished an impressive work record (though her CV was appreciably inflated once she became engaged, including tagging her father's onto it, which was baffling in the extreme).

But back to W & K: I highly doubt for QEII that time is of the essence. The proverbial horse has well and truly bolted, IMO. It seems IMO, that Kate has been given every hint to actually get a real job, but she refuses. Time will tell if QEII thinks her job at PP is all smoke and mirrors or not.

IMO, there seems to be a disconnect between the plans William and Kate made together (or promises William may have made to her) and the ones that the palace collectively has for William. That, to me, is the biggest danger here for Kate. It happens in ordinary families too - usually the familial ties win out with very strong families.

I see absolutely no evidence to suggest that Kate has the backing of QEII. There is speculative evidence, however, that she does not have that support. I do believe that QEII would not have allowed Kate's repuation to suffer if she had plans for her to enter into the family. Prince Phillip said something similar about Diana, if I remember correctly.
  #1497  
Old 08-19-2009, 01:22 PM
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Well Kate works for her parents and seems to like it. I mean she's not being chased all over town by photographers. Not to mention the current economic situation... I'm sure if she did get a job somewhere she'll be accused of using her royal connections like Chelsy Davy when she was a law intern at a firm that usually takes law students from Oxford and Cambridge. I'm not saying she should go on this way but when she did have a job criticisms were still flying in her direction.
  #1498  
Old 08-19-2009, 02:09 PM
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I agree, 4Pam. There's absolutely nothing wrong with working for a family business. It's not as if such jobs are lesser than other kinds of work. If that's what she wants to do, more power to her.
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  #1499  
Old 08-19-2009, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
I was watching the news tonight here in Canada, and both CBC and CTV reported on William and Kate coming to an "understanding" that they would marry by 2011...

The story seems to have come straight from NOTW: CTV even reported the quote from the friend telling William "You're next" at the Van Cutsem wedding.
Fox News here did the same thing on their "Fox and Friends" this week - I only caught a bit of it, but they were basically repeating the "they have an understanding they will marry by 2011" article. The only different part was the guy who wrote the book with Paul Burrell saying that British bookies were saying that the odds were so great that they would announce an engagement by December that you had to bet a lot of money on it to get anything back. I don't know if that parts true or not, or how you would even go about checking it.
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  #1500  
Old 08-19-2009, 02:47 PM
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I agree, 4Pam. There's absolutely nothing wrong with working for a family business. It's not as if such jobs are lesser than other kinds of work. If that's what she wants to do, more power to her.
I agree with you 100% - and from my experience it has turned out to be very true. But the problems, IMO, are this:

1. We are not talking about just anyone - Kate is the possible future Queen Consort of England.

2. How much - or how little - Kate works for the family business is open to speculation. Since it's a private company, nobody knows whether Kate turns up for work each day, and nor should they. On the flip side, that gives people the right to opine and speculate.

3. Kate's work record prior was very, very scant. A past pattern of behaviour is always used to either depict current, or predict future behaviour.

4. If Kate had started to work at PP earlier - and way before all of the negative criticism about her hedonistic and shallow life - then I'm sure even her harshest critics might have held a different view. I know I would.

IMO, these are the reasons why some are not convinced - and it isn't restricted to merely royalty forums, it is far more wide-reaching.

Both points of view are equally valid because we really just don't know what the extent of the truth is where Kate's work is concerned.

I don't take issue with people who believe Kate works hard and regularly for her parents - it's nice that people want to give the benefit of any doubt. I just don't believe it. Not for a nanosecond - and that should be ok too. It's just a case of both sides presenting their case.
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