William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[Idriel]

Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise

Those were his superiors who were playing the CYA game for allowing his little stunt.

You are missing half the information here.
William did lie about the real purpose of his jollies to his superiors.

Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information (FoI) Act have disclosed that neither William nor his aides informed senior officers of the "true nature" of two Chinook training flights which the Prince used to attend a stag party and a wedding. The documents, which can be made public for the first time, state that senior officers would have cancelled the flights if they had been told that the sorties were being used by William, 26, to ferry him to private functions.

So yes, they were complicit to his foolishness, but unwittingly so.

Add to that the fact that he didn't come forward with this as soon as the scandal broke off but let his superiors take the rap and waited until the newspapers revealed his little shenanigans to issue an half-arsed 'apology'.
The man is a disgrace.

Meanwhile, I think he'll live.

Your point?

Originally Posted by Menarue

I don´t for a second believe that Kate is a gold digger, her family has made more money than her family had ever, for hundreds of years, dreamed of. They live in a house that was beyond their means until only a few years ago and it seems that their internet business Party Pieces is giving them a good income. I think that as far as money is concerned they are very self satisfied.

Not that I particularly believe that Kate is motivated by money but there is money and Money.
The Middleton are successful businessmen but they have to work for their money and don't exactly swim in it.
As someone else said, they are secure but they are not wealthy in the Rich List sense of the term. Kate isn't by any mean an heiress so Windsor Money would definitely be appealing.

[Menarue]

Idriel for once I don´t agree 100%. I believe that the Middleton´s with their little internet business are richer than their wildest dreams, for now they they are really self-satisfied, to other people this is not real money but to them - they have made it.
It is a bit like a book I read some time ago (can´t remember the details and I haven´t got it to hand) but it is called "The Rich Rich". People like the oil millionaires, the way the Rothchilds were, they are of another class. Princess Diana found the Al Fayed money fascinating too, it is a case of rich and well ~compared to opulence. At the moment I believe the Middletons are at the stage of being very self satisfied with what they have achieved, perhaps later on when or if the Middleton parents start to mix with really rich people they will come to want more. The Windsors are not exactly lavish with their money either, they will not splash out very much with what they consider their own money, that is all safely invested. The money that is spent is from the Crown and the public spend a lot of money on getting ready for visits and tours and protection etc.
I think the main attraction is the respect and for lack of another word "kow-towing" that the royals get that would be really attractive to a lower middle class family.
They have been blessed with a very attractive young daughter, they have been able to give her every opportunity, not only a top University but the chance to meet and mix with the heir to the throne of THEIR country, which one must admit is even more attractive than meeting the heir to the throne of a foreign country. To be recognized and respected in your own country gives a certain feeling of satisfaction that would be hard to equal.
I agree that the Windsor money would be appealing but in comparison with the prestige even being related to the royal family gives, it fades into the background.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Menarue

I agree that the Windsor money would be appealing but in comparison with the prestige even being related to the royal family gives, it fades into the background.

I should imagine the constant intrusion would be a major stumbling block for this independent young woman. Any hope of privacy, even within their (if any) home is non existent. Having to carefully discard 'friends' intent on using you, having your life arranged for you, with very little say in the matter, the expectations etc. IM,TIC,O Kate still hasn't decided whether that is the gilded cage she wants to move in to.

[Menarue]

Does anyone really think that after waiting around for all these years she would say no? She hasn´t really experienced Palace Life yet, she has just experienced the trappings, that is what happened to Diana and Sarah Ferguson.....when the reality hit they didn´t find the life that attractive. Of course it depends on the young lady, Sophie seems to have fit in beautifully.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Menarue

I don´t for a second believe that Kate is a gold digger, her family has made more money than her family had ever, for hundreds of years, dreamed of. They live in a house that was beyond their means until only a few years ago and it seems that their internet business Party Pieces is giving them a good income. I think that as far as money is concerned they are very self satisfied.

The motivation of a gold digger is not necessarily money, it can be the influcence, power etc that goes with a certain position. Wendy Deng, just to mention an example.

Those who are simply motivated by money are representatives of the stupid variation, satisfied with the black amex without spending limits and defining themselves by the latest chanel bag or 300th pair of blahnik shoes.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

The motivation of a gold digger is not necessarily money, it can be the influcence, power etc that goes with a certain position. Wendy Deng, just to mention an example.

Those who are simply motivated by money are representatives of the stupid variation, satisfied with the black amex without spending limits and defining themselves by the latest chanel bag or 300th pair of blahnik shoes.

Well, explained that way, the GD word does come to mind.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I should imagine the constant intrusion would be a major stumbling block for this independent young woman. Any hope of privacy, even within their (if any) home is non existent. Having to carefully discard 'friends' intent on using you, having your life arranged for you, with very little say in the matter, the expectations etc. IM,TIC,O Kate still hasn't decided whether that is the gilded cage she wants to move in to.

That's the impression I have as well. That her burying in Berkshire was a test of how much privacy she could have on ommitting the flashlights by choice, only learning that this doesn't stop the paps, that the media will howl anyway. That she was sent to the Philip's wedding in order to check if she could stand to be on the plate alone, without William by her side as that will be her fate for the next years with him a serving officer and she a princess much in demand. There were quite some things when I thought: okay, they are testing the waters to make sure she does not become another "unhappy princess". They saw Diana, they know of Masako, but there are the examples of mary and Marie in Denmark where it seems to have worked beautifully as these princesses had a chance to test the waters before they committed.

As for Charles and Camilla: I bet Willaim uses them to convince Catherine that real love makes it worth and that saying "no" now could mean that they have to suffer as his elders did. I believe that Camilla could be the right person to talk to when it comes to the choice Camilla made and Catherine is about to make. Plus Camilla knew Diana and her problems with the position, one should not underestimate this knowledge.

BTW - (as an edit, additional point): i don't think HM is so much involved in this relationship. Charles is the father and he is the future king. I bet in this case it is his job to see to it that his son makes a suitable marriage, not that of HM or the DoE.

Oh, I so hope there will be an engagement soon - but then I'm a firm believer in a good marriage!

[Menarue]

I agree Camilla could be the right person to advise, but then conversely she could be the wrong person to advise.
There we go again, let us wait and see, but this "trying out" out idea of yours Jo sounds very sensible. Some facets she has been trying out quite often.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

The motivation of a gold digger is not necessarily money, it can be the influcence, power etc that goes with a certain position. Wendy Deng, just to mention an example.

Those who are simply motivated by money are representatives of the stupid variation, satisfied with the black amex without spending limits and defining themselves by the latest chanel bag or 300th pair of blahnik shoes.

I found that social climbers tend to change their victim if they don't get where they want in a limited timeframe. I've seen quite some seriously attached couples split after some years, before they got married, but I'Ve never seen a social climber being left out in the open after having been committed for some years.

[Luv2Cruise]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

BTW - (as an edit, additional point): i don't think HM is so much involved in this relationship. Charles is the father and he is the future king. I bet in this case it is his job to see to it that his son makes a suitable marriage, not that of HM or the DoE.

Besides, I would think they have learned their lesson and are out of the meddling business.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise

Besides, I would think they have learned their lesson and are out of the meddling business.

It is back to the question who has to give her permission? - The Queen.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Menarue

It is back to the question who has to give her permission? - The Queen.

Formally it is the souverain or parliament. But we all know that HM relies on her advisors or her family for decisions about certain parts of her life. Be it horsebreeding, collecting art, appointing government or allowing marriages - each field has its own way to come to the "right" decision and we have no knowledge who is the one to help HM decide or if she is not just okaying someone else's decision. My son i still a minor, so I have to okay some of his decisions but a lot of those are his and his alone, I just grant my permission on trusting him to make the right choice. We have no idea how this is organised at the moment when it comes to the marriages of the Wales' or York's children.

[Duke of Marmalade]

I never thought there was a problem with HM's approval. Look around what other choices the young royal CP generation made, Kate more or less fits in. But before HM can be asked, the thought of getting married has to find its way into William's head. This is where the problem is, and it's subject of discussion if "problem" is the right term here.

My guess is that this thread will go on until William finishes his training with RAF and will probably make it to 1.000 pages

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

My guess is that this thread will go on until William finishes his training with RAF and will probably make it to 1.000 pages

But what will there be to say that hasn't already been said?
The Burj Dubai thread at skyscrapercity.com is almost 700 pages with 14,000 posts so we have a way to go yet.

[Menarue]

I think the York childrens´marriages will not worry HM too much, but the person who is to take over from her eventually, will. It may well be her advisers who give her all information and so they are very important and that is why it is essential for any girl (and her family) even considering marrying the heir to the throne to make a good impression on them as they will carry their considerations to the Queen.....and she will listen. Just as it was in the time of Elizabeth I, they are her eyes and ears.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

My guess is that this thread will go on until William finishes his training with RAF and will probably make it to 1.000 pages

He has already completed some of his training on helicopters, so the next 18 months will not be as intensive. He will still get weekends, bank holidays and days in lieu. So in reality they could announce an engagement within the next 1-12 months.

[ghost_night554]

True, I hope he does to be honest with you I just want to stop waiting, this is my last comment about RAF thing but I don't recall blame being put on his supervisors even when the news first hit and we don't even know what happened maybe he was told not to say anything, anyways that's it from me on that subject cause I feel like I'm going to turn this thread off topic if I continue.

[georgiea]

I think nothing is going to happen until Prince William is 28 at the earliest. He told us that at the beginning of the public acknowledgment of the relationship that he will not marry until he is 28 or 30. Why can we not listen to him?

By the way he turns 28 near the end pf his of his RAF training. I think that might be a perfect time to get engaged. Then a year of working and hopefully the economy getting better so he and Kate can have a wonderful public wedding like his father.

[Menarue]

I would love to say I think everyone is right but I still get the impression (and it is only an impression) that his body language says he is not that enamoured of Kate to want to marry her......as I said it is just my impression and not just my wishful thinking . before someone says this.

[Ella Kay]

Originally Posted by Menarue

I would love to say I think everyone is right but I still get the impression (and it is only an impression) that his body language says he is not that enamoured of Kate to want to marry her......as I said it is just my impression and not just my wishful thinking . before someone says this.

I think it's a case where we all interpret something different based on the photographic evidence we see. You see a man who is not in love with his partner; I see a naturally reserved man who does not like being photographed and doesn't want to be demonstrative with her in the glare of the media. After all, he's more physically affectionate with her in photos where they assumed they had more privacy (the long-range paparazzi pictures of them in the tent at polo on his birthday; the cell-phone photos of them dancing quite close at his birthday party).

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with either interpretation, and we're all going to have different ones until they finally reveal what the outcome of this relationship is going to be.