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  #621  
Old 02-17-2009, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
It is impossible to separate the two.
Who you are will determine the choices you make in life and thus your actions. Similarly, some of the decisions you take will help shape your character (those character-defining moments).
People do not exist in a limbo, our minds and personality are indeed shaped by what we choose to do with our lives.
With all due respect, you are wrong. I have had the privilege of helping with disabled children, many of whom will do nothing with their lives, according to your definition. Thus they would be defined as non beings I suppose, however to many people with their laughter and little successes, they bring a lot to the world.

So I stand by "you are defined by the person you are, not what you have/haven't done".

Going out to work, studying, none of these make you better equipped to marry into the Royal family, neither do they make you a better/nicer/kinder/more worthwhile person.
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  #622  
Old 02-17-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
In terms of commiting long term, above all else, even the most avid of Kate haters would admit that she has remain committed to her boyfriend of a few years.
I was talking about something tangible.

If being in a long-term relationship was any indication of your work-ethic or ability to commit to a cause or a role, people would write about their love life on their CV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
With all due respect, you are wrong. I have had the privilege of helping with disabled children, many of whom will do nothing with their lives, according to your definition. Thus they would be defined as non beings I suppose, however to many people with their laughter and little successes, they bring a lot to the world.
You cannot possibly compare the situation of severely disabled people, most of whom will never achieve independence and thus won't have many opportunities in life, with that of perfectly healthy and normal people.
My point was a general one and not meant to encompass extremes examples.
I too stand by my statement.
Quote:
Going out to work, studying, none of these make you better equipped to marry into the Royal family.
Here we will have to agree to disagree. You obviously have different standards and expectations than I have, which is just fine by me.
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  #623  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:45 PM
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To be fair, our ability to commit to something is parallel to how much we enjoy it.

I mean, not everyone is professionally ambitious and most jobs are just jobs, not careers. I have a job and I'm not committed to it. I'd quit tomorrow if I wasn't committed to having four walls and a roof over my head.

Kate may not be career-oriented, and that's not a bad thing.

Or maybe she is, and her one year Jigsaw job was a sort of apprenticeship so she can run Party Pieces some day.

We don't really know, do we?

Besides, if there is indeed a royal wedding in her future, not having professional ambitions of your own can only be a good thing.
  #624  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:50 PM
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Maybe Kate will inherit the family business one day if she doesn't marry William. So now would be a good time to learn how to run the business. And who better to teach her than her parents?
  #625  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:51 PM
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That is one perception of Kate. I wonder how the lady feels about being called "a doormat" and "used when convenient." Given the amount of time that she's invested in her relationship with William, I doubt that she sees herself this way. She's reported to have said "He's lucky to be going out with me." I can't imagine a woman with such a healthy sense of self ever consenting to be a passive hanger-on in a relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Well she has certainly showed she can wait, let us hope she doesn´t continue to be a doormat all her life, ready to be used when convenient.
  #626  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
You obviously have different standards and expectations than I have, which is just fine by me.
Yes I probably have different standards, there are many that do not live up to mine. But I also believe that unless I meet the girl or her full details are released by her parents and indeed Kate herself, then I would prefer to believe she is working away, in private, just like the private citizen she is.

It strikes me as a terible thing, to judge someone harshly just because 'you' are not privy to what they are doing out of the spotlight. (The you is ubiquitous).
  #627  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post

You cannot possibly compare the situation of severely disabled people, most of whom will never achieve independence and thus won't have many opportunities in life, with that of perfectly healthy and normal people.
My point was a general one and not meant to encompass extremes examples.
Sorry, but I did not interpret Skydragon's post as referring specifically to severely disabled people. After working (during college) with the Special Olympics, it's very rewarding to work with young adults who are trying their best to accomplish something that would take the average person only 1/5th of the time to learn. Success is not always measured in leaps and bounds, but one small step at a time.
  #628  
Old 02-17-2009, 08:14 PM
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She appears to be very, very committed to William.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I don't think she has committed in a long term to anything since graduating.
She couldn't even commit to a part-time job, what make you thin she will commit to a lifetime of service?
  #629  
Old 02-17-2009, 08:19 PM
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I concur, Skydragon. I hope that Miss Middleton never reads this thread, because some of the characteristics attributed to her are appalling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It strikes me as a terible thing, to judge someone harshly just because 'you' are not privy to what they are doing out of the spotlight. (The you is ubiquitous).
  #630  
Old 02-18-2009, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I was talking about something tangible.

If being in a long-term relationship was any indication of your work-ethic or ability to commit to a cause or a role, people would write about their love life on their CV.
Lets just work through the facts, to the limited extend they are in the public domain.

After Kate graduated from St Anrdews, she worked at Jigsaw for, I am guessing, about a year. She then moved back to Berkshire to work for her parents business, and I am guessing she has been working there for a couple of years. There is no credible information in the public domain that I am aware of that suggests that there have been extended gaps in her CV. What seems to be the perceived lack of commitment here?

My sense is that you have taken a view that you don't like Kate or consider her unsuitable for the potential role as consort to William (a view you are perfectly entitled to), and are using the limited facts to suggest things about Kate that do not stand up to any level of scrutiny. I am happy to be corrected if you can corroborate your points with specific, credible information that can be backed up.
  #631  
Old 02-18-2009, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
That is one perception of Kate. I wonder how the lady feels about being called "a doormat" and "used when convenient." Given the amount of time that she's invested in her relationship with William, I doubt that she sees herself this way. She's reported to have said "He's lucky to be going out with me." I can't imagine a woman with such a healthy sense of self ever consenting to be a passive hanger-on in a relationship.

I know of a woman who has been the mistress of a single man for over thirty years, she too is single and obviously is perfectly content to go on this way, many people wouldn´t have this point of view but everyone is different.
Kate has "invested" an amount of time, does that mean she expects to receive dividends? Well time will tell, I can´t imgine her saying that he is lucky to be going out with her but then everyone has an opinion of their self worth and if that is hers then fine.
  #632  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:19 AM
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I feel sorry for Kate. People say many horrible things about her like Waity Katie or something like that. As I heard she tried to find a job in Art Gallery but becouse press and all the paparazzi she can't. And now this press invented nickname Waity Katie. I believe that in St Andrew she has lovely time with William but after that? Brutal reality. She hasn't as wonderful life as many people believe she has.
  #633  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:34 AM
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I for one don´t think she has a wonderful life, far from it, but obviously it is a life of her own choosing, she is not being obliged to do anything. Waity Katy is just a name and she does seem to be waiting so it is not that terrible, a bit disrespectful if she does manage to become the wife of Prince William but then there are far worse things to be called than Waity.
Does anyone really think that the only reason Kate doesn´t work is because of the paparazzi? I thought it was because she wanted a very flexible working timetable that would leave her free to accompany Prince William whenever he wanted her to go on holiday or hunting or whatever. Working for the family internet business does just that for her and it is the source of the money she has to support her lifestyle so why not.
  #634  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
There is no credible information in the public domain that I am aware of that suggests that there have been extended gaps in her CV.
Way to rewrite history.

Kate graduated from Uni in June 2005. After that there is no indication she did anything but shopping, partying and vacationing for nearly one year and a half.
After much bad press she accepted a part time job selecting belts and shoes for a fashion house (which, as a her boss specified, had to allow her to be available for her boyfriend) and stayed there for about a year (until September or October 2007) , after which she decided she wanted time for herself.
Then a couple of months (not years) ago there is some official mention of her creating a website for her parent's company (ironically, this also came after much bad press about her lifestyle...).

I would call such a CV sporadic to say the least and pretty sub-part for someone who has graduated from a top University with a decent degree. The way you recount it one would believe she has been active non-stop since her graduation. In my opinion, it is the CV a woman who never had any interest in having a career and is content with her current situation.

Now you may choose to believe she has been doing a lot more than that undercover. I personally highly doubt it, my opinion, but I will agree to disagree with you.

Also, I subscribe to Jo of Palatine's view that this relationship is now devoid of interest.
I am utterly bored with these two. I have run out of things to say and so, I believe, have most of the people who post here (I say that without malice).
I'll just leave that thread alone unless they break-up or get engaged.
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  #635  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:17 AM
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I agree with you on this point 100% Menarue.
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  #636  
Old 02-18-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Way to rewrite history...
Just because the press did not pick up on when Kate may have started at Jigsaw, or when she may have started working with her parents does not actually mean the dates you are suggesting are in any way accurate, nor are the periods of "time for herself" or "shopping, partying and vacationing"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Now you may choose to believe she has been doing a lot more than that undercover.
Needless to say, your willingness to place reliance on what the tabloids publish about what Kate might do with her time is very telling. But what I find even more amusing seems to be your belief that if the tabloids have not published something, it was either "undercover" or did not happen!

But as I have said, facts (whatever they might be) notwithstanding, you appear to have formed a view, and you are entitled to believe whatever you so desire.
  #637  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Does anyone really think that the only reason Kate doesn´t work is because of the paparazzi? I thought it was because she wanted a very flexible working timetable that would leave her free to accompany Prince William whenever he wanted her to go on holiday or hunting or whatever.
I would think that Kate knew long before the media and then TRF's that William would be firstly working with the Army before moving to the RAF and would have very little time to spend with her. Apart from the motorcycle jolly, William will get the same amount of time off as anyone else who works, at a normal job.
  #638  
Old 02-18-2009, 08:28 PM
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and round and round we go :) I must admit as a previous poster said she could take on post grad studies or further uni education of some sort to give her a little more public substance though to be fair as a private citizen no one has the right to expect her to do anything at the moment. Still it would be nice if she was sat in an engagement interview she was able to say she had pursued something other than selling plastic tiaras and napkins.
  #639  
Old 02-19-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Just because the press did not pick up on when Kate may have started at Jigsaw, or when she may have started working with her parents does not actually mean the dates you are suggesting are in any way accurate, nor are the periods of "time for herself" or "shopping, partying and vacationing"!
The duration of her stay at Jigsaw is not a matter of speculation.
We know exactly when she started working and when she left. It was corroborated by reputable news-sources, by her colleagues at Jigsaw, and by pictures.
I.e., soon after it was announced she was taking the position we started having daily pictures of her going to work (except during the hiatus when she took a compassionate leave -to go clubbing it seemed). Before that we had daily pictures of her wandering around London, shopping, having lunch, in short, not holding a 9 to 5 job.
When she quit some colleagues talked about the farewell party and then we stopped having pics of her going to work. Pretty straightforwards.

You are right that it is unclear when she started to work for her parents or what she is still doing for them (if anything at all). I never implied I knew the exact timeline. However, the mention of her working for them appeared on their website a couple months ago.
Before that, no indication whatsoever of her having a notable role within the company. Since they saw fit to add her on their website alongside the rest of their employees only a couple of months ago, I think it isn't totally unreasonable to assume she wasn't on the website before that because she had no steady role within the company.
Quote:
Needless to say, your willingness to place reliance on what the tabloids publish about what Kate might do with her time is very telling.
I find a bit ironic that you chide me for supposedly making assumptions about Kate when you are making assumptions about me yourself.

I rely on tabloids? A quick browse through my posts would tell you just how reliable I think tabloids are.
The info I have mentioned have been reported in various news sources, such as AP, BBC, broadsheet newspapers, VF, etc and yes, tabloids too. And, as already mentioned, I also trust pictures, which of course do not tell the whole story but help back up a piece of information and build a chronology.

A propo of tabloids, while they do write a lot of nonsense, they do get some things right.
For example: The Daily Mail and News of the World, as trashy as they are, often know in advance when and where the young royals go on holidays. The DM was right about Harry and Chelsy going to Mauritius, to give you a recent example. The 2007 break-up was revealed by the Sun, etc.
Some of the people who have come in contact with Kate or William or Harry also openly speak to tabloids and/or sell them stories (hence various royal scandals). Not all their sources are imaginary.
If tabloids where just systematically wrong, it would make everything easier.
The reason why they are so potentially harmful is because they mix hard facts and fiction.

Believing that everything that is printed or said is a lie is just as naive as believing everything is true.
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  #640  
Old 02-19-2009, 12:32 AM
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Okay, I think we have established that no one has a true idea of what Kate has been up to during her relationship with William except for the parties directly involved.

Moving on...
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