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  #501  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:09 AM
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And then the Baby Watch, and then the cooing over what wonderful parents they are, and then the stories about how they're bored with each other...
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  #502  
Old 02-11-2009, 01:58 AM
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3 months in Italy is hardly an indication that she is some sort of Italian speaking whizz kid. IMRIC Scottish degrees run along the same sort of lines as English degrees and you don't just "pick up" subjects as you do in the US.

St. Andrews does offer an art history degree with Italian, but it have NEVER once been mentioned anywhere online that she studied this programme, it's always been described as a straight-forward art history degree.

Moreover, students who combine degrees with a lanugage usually study abroa. I know people who studied subjects like law and business who ended up abroad as a result of the language they offered. The ERASMUS programme, which is available to all EU students is an option Kate did not follow.
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  #503  
Old 02-11-2009, 04:26 AM
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I could never compare Jacquie Bouvier with Kate, or I should say Kate Middleton with Jacquie Bouvier. Jacquie was born with class with a capital C. She had impeccable manners and was at ease whatever the occasion, a state visit, receiving guests at the White House, accompany her husband and even the unthinkable occasion of attending her assassinated husband´s funeral with such dignity that she earned the respect of the whole world.
She was highly educated, attended the Sorbonne, her French and Spanish were not of the schoogirl variety, she was not only beautiful she was an asset to the Presidency.
She was a young woman too but that didn´t make her giggle or act silly in public.
Also she had been a photographer and understood the photographers wanting to take her picture and I doubt if she ever complained about them doing their job.
Goodness, I had almost forgotten, Kate had said she was a photographer, or aspiring photographer so she should have a little sympathy for these people who were just doing their job and not make a formal complaint, or at least if they bothered her too much just kept out of their way. She must have realised that her complaint would mean her pedestal would begin to crumble.... Jacquie and Kate, no way, there is absolutely no comparison.
  #504  
Old 02-11-2009, 07:08 AM
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JO was born in 1929, a totally different era. many upper class women of that age, in the UK, traveled, learned to speak different languages, paint, embroider etc. They were fashioned to make interesting wives, now Kate has many more options. We don't know that she hasn't continued her language skills, we don't know that she isn't studying with the OU.

JO was 24 when she became engaged to JFK, 32 when he became President and she became better known to people outside the USA. Plenty of time for Kates star to shine!
  #505  
Old 02-11-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Maybe that's what you are talking about and what you want to discuss here.
Not just me. The ongoing conversation always comes back to that question: Is she the right one for William? Just browse the thread.
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At the moment what's happening is the character assassination of a private citizen because she is a quiet, discreet person who has no interest in revealing all to people who are only interested in her because of her boyfriend.
How do you know she is quiet and discreet and not scheming and bidding her time until she gets the big prize? You don't, it's just the impression she makes on you based on what you know of her.
There is the mistaken view, imo, that people who are critical of her are animated by sinister purposes such as jealousy, hatred, bitterness, etc. Then play tell, what are the motivations of those who pour heaps of praise on her? They are never accused of being over-enthusiastic or sycophantic. If we don't know enough to form a proper opinion then it should go both way, no?
I just happen to have a different opinion and Kate makes a different impression on me than on you. That's all there is to it and we should be able to agree to disagree without questioning the poster character.
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Ah, and BTW: there are people who will check her suitablity to become a Royal bride once William wants to marry her. I have no doubt that by then HM, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Prince of Wales know enough of her to make this assessment and if they will be content, so will I be.
The same exact people who decided Diana and Fergie were suitable...
Regardless of what opinions these people hold that will not stop me from having my own.
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Look, this young lady is an academic who lived for a time in Italy.
I would not call Kate an academic: she has an undergraduate degree, like most people her age in Europe where education is cheap. Academics have at least a graduate degree.
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I fail to see the relevance of the point as to whether she speaks foreign langauages or not. Nice, but not exactly a prerequisite.
It was part of an ongoing conversation about how cultured Kate is. Speaking several major languages is an invaluable asset for anyone, but even more if you are a first lady or a similar position.
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.... all of which emanates from the press speculating baout her. Little hard known fact is known, as would be the case for a private citizen.
All? No.
There are hard facts out there, verifiable information, biographical details, school and university friends (with real names) who have openly spoke about her, pictures (they don't tell the whole story but there are not speculation). Her employment history is well known apart from what exactly she does now (if anything) with her parents. Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.
Of course alongside that there are speculative articles that one choose to believe or not (if you have followed my post it's pretty obvious I am not so naive to swallow things whole) and opinion pieces one may agree or disagree with.

I am also confused by one thing: the same people who say that Kate has no privacy are the ones who claim she is a total mystery. They also claim she is hounded but also able the keep whole parts of her life (conveniently, the parts where she does meaningful things) hidden and secret. I think this is totally possible now she is in the country but how did she manage that in London with all those paps and prying journalists harassing her?
Well, of course anybody is free to hold that position but I just don't find it very consistent.


Lastly, thank you Little Star, your posts are always very informative.
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  #506  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
There is the mistaken view, imo, that people who are critical of her are animated by sinister purposes such as jealousy, hatred, bitterness, etc. Then play tell, what are the motivations of those who pour heaps of praise on her? They are never accused of being over-enthusiastic or sycophantic.
I can only speak for myself but unless I know to the contrary that a person was/is horrible (IMO) then it is better to see the good in them and at least give them a chance. When people have complained about some of my posts in the BRF threads, many are because they have read them in a different manner than was intended. When posters read through this thread, the spiteful, nasty, mean spirited remarks from some posters come across as 100% jealousy based on a lack of information. If we don't know then clearly she isn't, doesn't, can't, won't, etc. (Not aimed at anyone)
Quote:
Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.
I don't believe that was quite the way Belle put it, my recollection was that she needed to have a job that was flexible. I have two employees that asked for the same consideration.
Quote:
I am also confused by one thing: the same people who say that Kate has no privacy are the ones who claim she is a total mystery. They also claim she is hounded but also able the keep whole parts of her life (conveniently, the parts where she does meaningful things) hidden and secret. I think this is totally possible now she is in the country but how did she manage that in London with all those paps and prying journalists harassing her?
Having privacy is to be able to shop till you drop without the fear of it appearing in TRF's threads, to have a bad hair day without it becoming major news and everyday things like that. A privacy the majority of you enjoy, I presume? She is hounded whenever she goes out, her friends are hounded for details of her life and yes when in the confines of her home, where ever it is, she could if she wished practise the dance of the seven veils, lap dance or study, study, study and none of it will be known! Do we know a great deal about her - NO, IMO.
  #507  
Old 02-11-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
it seems this girl only cares about clothes
Could Kate really be described as someone who cares only about clothes? I mean she has been wearing the same boots since about 2006, brings out the same summer dresses year after year, rarely wears anything other than her trusty black and white and is accused as dressing like a middle aged woman.
  #508  
Old 02-11-2009, 03:26 PM
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Kate is a very smart girl; she keeps herself to herself, and the press hate it. After all, their ideal royal is still Diana who used and abused the power of the press for her own ends. We have all seen how ultimately destructive that relationship was, and Kate is wise to avoid them. If she had something to say it would be said to those who matter, not a lot of leeches on expense accounts.
  #509  
Old 02-11-2009, 03:44 PM
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Very good points, Mara -- I think Kate's discretion when it comes to dealings with the media says a lot about the kind of princess she would be should she and William get married.
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  #510  
Old 02-11-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
JO was born in 1929, a totally different era. many upper class women of that age, in the UK, traveled, learned to speak different languages, paint, embroider etc. They were fashioned to make interesting wives, now Kate has many more options. We don't know that she hasn't continued her language skills, we don't know that she isn't studying with the OU.

JO was 24 when she became engaged to JFK, 32 when he became President and she became better known to people outside the USA. Plenty of time for Kates star to shine!
We can only hope, but then she hasn´t nabbed the prince yet.
  #511  
Old 02-11-2009, 04:56 PM
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Oh Menarue, I bet you hope she shines some where besides Windsor Castle lol...just kidding.........happy posting .....
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  #512  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
How do you know she is quiet and discreet and not scheming and bidding her time until she gets the big prize? You don't, it's just the impression she makes on you based on what you know of her.
No, it's the impression she makes on me based on what I don't get to hear. We heard so many negative things about Diana in school - if Diana had dated Charles for longer, we surely would have had so many people telling on her! But nobody tells negative stories about Catherine. Why? Because there are none to tell, otherwise they would be out in the open by now!
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  #513  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:30 PM
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Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like an invitation to a royal wedding?
  #514  
Old 02-11-2009, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
But nobody tells negative stories about Catherine!
You must be kidding. I don't have the time nor the inclination to dig up material but there has been less than flattering stories about Kate and her family (I am not talking about the usual 'sources' but from people with actual names).
And a few posts ago you were arguing that journalists would not have access to such basic info such as whether she could speak good Italian after her stay there but you think they would have access to info about her personality?
Your logic confounds me.
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  #515  
Old 02-11-2009, 08:40 PM
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Perhaps he has not yet succeeded in nabbing her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
We can only hope, but then she hasn´t nabbed the prince yet.
  #516  
Old 02-12-2009, 02:03 AM
cde cde is offline
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I have never claimed she took the art history with the Italian program at St. Andrews.All I am saying is it is entirely possible she is passably fluent in Italian. I think is very possible she continued with her Italian when she went to Uni, since there was room in her art history programme and later she kept up with the language on her own. "The degree structures at St Andrews allow you to sample a variety of subjects in your first two years. This flexibility is a great advantage.( art history leaflet) The first year and second year schedules requires 1 art history class per semester. ( I checked) That is 2 classes per semester she can take classes outside of her major for 2 years.
Single Honours Degrees. These are degrees where credits for an Honours programme are obtained predominantly in one subject. Flexibility at Honours level, means that one or two modules (less than 60 credits total) may occasionally be taken outwith the named subject area. The second subject in these cases is not named in the Degree and the degrees are still classified as Single Honours Degrees. From St. Andrews's Catalogue.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
3 months in Italy is hardly an indication that she is some sort of Italian speaking whizz kid. IMRIC Scottish degrees run along the same sort of lines as English degrees and you don't just "pick up" subjects as you do in the US.

St. Andrews does offer an art history degree with Italian, but it have NEVER once been mentioned anywhere online that she studied this programme, it's always been described as a straight-forward art history degree.

Moreover, students who combine degrees with a lanugage usually study abroa. I know people who studied subjects like law and business who ended up abroad as a result of the language they offered. The ERASMUS programme, which is available to all EU students is an option Kate did not follow.
  #517  
Old 02-12-2009, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Perhaps there are a lot of people who would like an invitation to a royal wedding?
Like the words of that song "The Boy Chases the Girl until She Catches HIm"
  #518  
Old 02-12-2009, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
You must be kidding. I don't have the time nor the inclination to dig up material but there has been less than flattering stories about Kate and her family (I am not talking about the usual 'sources' but from people with actual names).
Please, take the time. I'm not aware that there were stories with people actually giving their names, so I'm more than a little bit curious. It would put the discussion here on a different level, I think.


Quote:
And a few posts ago you were arguing that journalists would not have access to such basic info such as whether she could speak good Italian after her stay there but you think they would have access to info about her personality?
Your logic confounds me.
My point was that I was talking about her time in school. People who have knowledge about her and like her tend to keep silent in order not to make her life anymore difficult than it already is. Today she can surround herself only with such people.

But back in school she had to cope with whoever was enrolled at the same time - there must have been girls or teachers there who didn't like her and don't feel protective towards her. Still, these people don't turn up telling negative things about her. So the probability is very high that there simply aren't such things to tell. She obviously didn't make plans how to spend the millions of her future millionaire husband, she didn't dream of becoming a model, she probably was as down-to-earth and as quiet as she appears to be today. Okay, it has been said she already had a crush on William but I bet a lot of school girls had back then. And I doubt it was about becoming William's queen....

So this lack of information from back then tells me that she has been a quiet and discreet young lady with a friendly character ever sice she was placed in a public surrounding like a boarding school. A bit like Silvia of Sweden: there were no scandals or attempts at character assassination in her past, she did not marry her king because she only wanted to become queen but because she loved him, she dated the king quietly for years till she married him, she became a great queen consort and mother and still she seems to love her husband and he her - they are a bit boring but nice and their people love them. That's what I think Catherine and William could become: quiet but nice and friendly, a bit boring but always in love and well-loved by their people.
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  #519  
Old 02-12-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
A bit like Silvia of Sweden: there were no scandals or attempts at character assassination in her past, she did not marry her king because she only wanted to become queen but because she loved him, she dated the king quietly for years till she married him, she became a great queen consort and mother and still she seems to love her husband and he her - they are a bit boring but nice and their people love them. That's what I think Catherine and William could become: quiet but nice and friendly, a bit boring but always in love and well-loved by their people.
whether this also applies to kate we don't know. she has the "social climber" label attached to her more than anyone else. a comparison is rather pointless so i only mention the most striking difference, unlike silvia kate never had a career of her own but only spends her time sticking like superglue on her man - and she lives in 2009, not in 1972 what makes quite a difference regarding womens' career opportunities - what speaks volumes to me.

to say that william is nice but friendly ... i don't know. imo he's one of the major actors in royalty around these days, and not in a positive way. he's certainly boring but again in a negative way - same goes for kate - it all goes in the direction "reluctant", "snobby" or "only living to own advantage", what keeps them both from winning a popularity contest. imo they are an outdated couple.
  #520  
Old 02-12-2009, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
How do you know she is quiet and discreet and not scheming and bidding her time until she gets the big prize? You don't, it's just the impression she makes on you based on what you know of her............. If we don't know enough to form a proper opinion then it should go both way, no?
Where I do not have full information, I would like to believe that most people give the said person the benefit of the doubt, and presume they are "normal" people, and not "scheming" or anything else. I am not attaching any positive attriubutes to Kate (other than whatI can observe), and nor am I attaching any negative ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Speaking several major languages is an invaluable asset for anyone, but even more if you are a first lady or a similar position.All? No.
There are hard facts out there, verifiable information, biographical details, school and university friends (with real names) who have openly spoke about her, pictures (they don't tell the whole story but there are not speculation). Her employment history is well known apart from what exactly she does now (if anything) with her parents. Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.
Of course alongside that there are speculative articles that one choose to believe or not (if you have followed my post it's pretty obvious I am not so naive to swallow things whole) and opinion pieces one may agree or disagree with.

I am also confused by one thing: the same people who say that Kate has no privacy are the ones who claim she is a total mystery. They also claim she is hounded but also able the keep whole parts of her life (conveniently, the parts where she does meaningful things) hidden and secret. I think this is totally possible now she is in the country but how did she manage that in London with all those paps and prying journalists harassing her?
In general, I would have preferred if Kate (if she is to be the one) had a "normal" career independent of her family, and had achieved a certain position before she married into the family. That said, I think she was fortunate in having the opportunity of working for her parents, and that allowed her to completely side step the media charade that would follow her around London.

As regards languages, I have to admit that I am afraid that that is a bit of a dying art. There was certainly a time when speaking languages was synonymous with good breeding, but I certainly do not see it like that. As the world converges, English has truely emerged as a global language, and rightly or wrongly, everybody else has had to learn tospeak English as a second language. As a result, speaking different languages just does not have the relevance today that it did, even 15 years ago , though I accept that "speaking several major languages is an invaluable asset for anyone"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Her employment history is well known apart from what exactly she does now (if anything) with her parents. Her former boss telling that she wanted a non demanding job so she could see her boyfriend would also be reliable info, etc.
I think Sky has commented on this already. Belle Robinson merely commented that Kate required a degre of flexibility with her role, as opposed to a "non demanding job"

As you may be aware for a long time the press presented it as fact that Kate had got her job with Jigsaw as the Robinsons were friends of her parents or the PoW, depending on which stories you followed. It was only when Belle spoke tothe press was it clarified that Kate herself had approached Belle and asked for a job.

I have brought this up only to demonstrate that the press often get it wrong, as they have so little information about Kate to base their stories on, so much for the "hard facts out there, verifiable information, biographical details, school and university friends (with real names) who have openly spoke about her, pictures"....
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