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  #481  
Old 02-10-2009, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
As for cultural interests, I will repeat the same thing as I have said about William: show me a single picture of Kate anywhere near a cultural institution. The only instance I ever heard about her doing something high-brow was a sighting of her giggling wildly during a Pinter play (that old comic genius).
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Idriel, you have just made me spill my coffee.....
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  #482  
Old 02-10-2009, 04:39 AM
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It is her right as anyone, man or woman, to choose to do or not do whatever they please. Since when does Kate Middleton, private citizen, have to submit her life's hopes and dreams and career plans to anyone for approval, especially those who have no clue about how she really lives her life or who she really is as a person.

To criticize and judge someone so very bitterly, especially someone who is a complete public mystery, says more about the ones doing the criticizing than the one who ALLEGEDLY does nothing yet remains silent in the face of this very unfair onslaught. I'm quite sure William's immediate family can commiserate and think highly of her in at least that one regard.

The women's movement was not about condemning a woman because SHE DOES NOT CHOOSE TO SEEK A PROFESSIONAL CAREER OR WORK OUTSIDE OF HER HOME, it was about women having the ability to have CHOICES about how she lives her life, among other things. I dare say that one would be attacked worse than Kate if they were to criticize some random woman for daring to become the top of her profession yet remain unmarried and childless. People have a right to choose the path in life that makes them happiest. If Kate Middleton wants only to be married and have children and work in her parents' business until that happens, I can think of worse things to which to aspire than wife and mother.
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  #483  
Old 02-10-2009, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
Jackie Kennedy worked before she became Mrs. Kennedy at a time when she could very easily have not have done. JFK was not that well-known when they met, he had just started his Senate campaign. Moreover she had to start her marriage as a political wife, deal with a husband who suffered a horrible illness (Addison's disease) and face serious fertility problems that resulted in miscarriages and a stillbirth.

We have very different opinions on Kate, you choose to believe she loves William, IMO she loves his position much more....
JO worked as a society photographer for one publication, for a short time, hardly a go getting career girl. Many women suffered fertility problems, miscarriages and still births back then.
  #484  
Old 02-10-2009, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I chose to believe she doesn't because there isn't the slightest hint that she does.
If she had been fluent in foreign languages it would have been mentioned in one of those glowing Hello style reports that were the norm at the beginning (and still are, in Hello obviously).
I mean, we know she was good in sports at school, that she was bullied, what she did on a gap year, etc. but she somehow manages to be multilingual without anybody noticing? I don't think so.
As for cultural interests, I will repeat the same thing as I have said about William: show me a single picture of Kate anywhere near a cultural institution. The only instance I ever heard about her doing something high-brow was a sighting of her giggling wildly during a Pinter play (that old comic genius).
CDE seems to have flattened that.
Quote:
YWhat you call freedom I call a rot personally.
Or a strong personality deciding, for the moment to have her cake and eat it. To state her freedom, her choices are 'rot' is unfair and over the top, unless you know her, know all about her and can state with 100% certainty that she is the one waiting for William, not a joint decision by two mature people. One persons idea of Freedom of choice can be 100% different from anyone elses.
Quote:
This is definitely not a feminist position, just look at Leticia in Spain or any other royal consort.Those things haven't changed much in some social circles. The major difference is that in addition to social graces, these women are expected to have careers and achievements of their own (at least until motherhood).My opinion also.
But this is not any other Royal Family we are talking about, in every country they have a different way of life, (we after all do not throw Donkeys or Goats out of Church buildings), so why should the British follow anothers way. In the same way that the American ideal is rarely the British ideal, the UK would I believe have trouble accepting an unmarried mother as with the Norwegian CP. When lauding the European Princesses, it is worth remembering that not all of them were seen as acceptable, whether they had jobs/careers before they met their prince or not. There is another difference, they had the opportunity to have lives before they did meet.
  #485  
Old 02-10-2009, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise View Post
---snipped----
although I agree 100%
Quote:
The women's movement was not about condemning a woman because SHE DOES NOT CHOOSE TO SEEK A PROFESSIONAL CAREER OR WORK OUTSIDE OF HER HOME, it was about women having the ability to have CHOICES about how she lives her life, among other things. I dare say that one would be attacked worse than Kate if they were to criticize some random woman for daring to become the top of her profession yet remain unmarried and childless. People have a right to choose the path in life that makes them happiest. If Kate Middleton wants only to be married and have children and work in her parents' business until that happens, I can think of worse things to which to aspire than wife and mother.
The debate here is whether it harms a child if the parent does not stay at home to look after it. Whether she does or not, it is now her right to decide and not be dictated too.
  #486  
Old 02-10-2009, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise View Post
To criticize and judge someone so very bitterly, especially someone who is a complete public mystery, says more about the ones doing the criticizing than the one who ALLEGEDLY does nothing yet remains silent in the face of this very unfair onslaught. I'm quite sure William's immediate family can commiserate and think highly of her in at least that one regard.

.
I really don´t know about her being such a public mystery, not in England any way, what is going on in her head is a mystery though. I hope you are not speaking for the royal family when you say you are sure they think highly of her even it is only in one regard.
  #487  
Old 02-10-2009, 11:11 AM
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The difference, IMO, is the view of an American towards someone who they feel was famous. But famous for what, being the wife of a assassinated president, dressing well? JO can be compared to Kate, purely because neither had done anything of note before becoming involved with a well known man. You say she married for love as if Kate does not love William, but only a woman in love would put up with all the negative stories, pursuit and lack of privacy that seems to be visited on Kate.[/quote]


While I am an American of Itailin, British, and German descent. I believe that most things posted her are just that a veiw of what we think is famous or not. what should or should not be news ...
(JO was educated at selective schools such as the Holton-Arms School in Washington (1942-1944) and Miss Porter's School in Farmington, Connecticut (1944-1947). When she made her society debut in 1947, a Hearst columnist dubbed Jacqueline "Debutante of the Year".
She spent her first two years of college at Vassar in Poughkeepsie, New York, and spent her junior year (1949–1950) in France at the University of Grenoble and The Sorbonne in a program through Smith College. Upon returning home to the United States, she transferred to The George Washington University in Washington, D.C., graduating in 1951 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in French Literature.)" Wiki" She also worked and was well know for other things besides being JFK's widow she was the Frist Lady of the US and burried two children and raised two who servied this may not hold much gul for someone not from the US but it is my opinion that she did much more then Kate has done YET. My statement about her marring for love was in No way saying that Kate does not love William. I believe that she does. In ways I agree with you that they can be comparied for style icon and just being linked to a man, but what I was saying is that JO had done other things.and yes .. she Married her famous man sat by his side in his duties and death. Maybe one day Kate will do the same but for now she has not ... IMHO may my opinions not offend anyone ...
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  #488  
Old 02-10-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cde View Post
Vanity Fair mentioned during her gap year she spent three months
in Florence learning Italian and Art History at the British Institute. And it is possible, IMO pretty likely she continued her Italian course at St. Andrews. In the first two years part of her degree program has her takes classes outside of her major, taking Italian would make sense, she already had decent grasp of it from living in Italy for three months,it would be useful in her art history course and her parents probably pushed it.

While I can't prove she's fluent in Italian, I suspect she speaks it somewhat decently and I also suspect she speaks another language (French mostly likely) somewhat from her years at boarding school.
I did know about her dabbling with Italian (that is what I meant by 'what she did on her gap year') but I didn't think it any relevance because of the short duration. She wouldn't have to have a strong grasp of Italian just to stay for three months because she was among other British students and from the reports I have read about her stay none of them mentioned her becoming fluent.
Many youngsters do a short language initiation like that and it leads to nothing. Same with French language: many of my British friends had to study French for several years at school but they didn't pursue it afterwards and speak appalling French (when at all). Again, we know she was an average student who was good at sports. If she spoke French it would have filtered out.
My point is still the same, if she had done more than dabble in languages and had a serious commend of a foreign language, it would have been public knowledge by now. Imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
But this is not any other Royal Family we are talking. When lauding the European Princesses, it is worth remembering that not all of them were seen as acceptable, whether they had jobs/careers before they met their prince or not. There is another difference, they had the opportunity to have lives before they did meet.
I wasn't lauding any other European princesses. My mentioning Letitia was to illustrate my point that being a royal consort isn't a very 'feminist' position. Personally I can't see what's so different about what Leticia and Camilla or Philip do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise View Post
It is her right as anyone, man or woman, to choose to do or not do whatever they please. Since when does Kate Middleton, private citizen, have to submit her life's hopes and dreams and career plans to anyone for approval, especially those who have no clue about how she really lives her life or who she really is as a person.
I think you are confused about the purpose of this discussion.
We are discussing her suitability for the public role of Princess of the UK. Kate the private citizen is a non-issue and if she split with William tomorrow I would not be following her life or expressing any kind of judgements or care about what she does or doesn't do. When I am talking about Kate, I am talking about Kate the possible future bride of William.
There are information out there and I will form an opinion based on them. You do the same: you've never met her nor know more than me about her but you think she is lovely and praise her very enthusiatically. Similarly you were very critically of Chelsy (I am not trying to pit them aginst each other, just point out it's easy to form opinions on people you've never met)
Quote:
To criticize and judge someone so very bitterly, especially someone who is a complete public mystery, says more about the ones doing the criticizing
Keep the personal attacks at bay thank you. And Kate isn't a complete mystery, there are plenty of information about her.
Quote:
The women's movement was not about condemning a woman because she does not choose to seek a professional career or work outside of her home, it was about women having the ability to have choices about how she lives her life, among other things. (I edited the yelling)
I agree wholeheartedly.
Kate is free to make all the choices she want. And I am free to think the choices she make makes her unsuitable as a prospective royal bride. And you are free to disagree.
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  #489  
Old 02-10-2009, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
I think you are confused about the purpose of this discussion.
We are discussing her suitability for the public role of Princess of the UK. Kate the private citizen is a non-issue and if she split with William tomorrow I would not be following her life or expressing any kind of judgements or care about what she does or doesn't do. When I am talking about Kate, I am talking about Kate the possible future bride of William.
Maybe that's what you are talking about and what you want to discuss here. But this is not the purpose of this discussion: it's about engagement rumours and musings, not about Catherine Elizabeth Middleton's character.
Once she has married William and found her own public role as a Princess of the UK, IMHO anybody may dissect the "public servant" Catherine Elizabeth to his or her heart's delight. At the moment what's happening is the character assassination of a private citizen because she is a quiet, discreet person who has no interest in revealing all to people who are only interested in her because of her boyfriend.

Ah, and BTW: there are people who will check her suitablity to become a Royal bride once William wants to marry her. I have no doubt that by then HM, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Prince of Wales know enough of her to make this assessment and if they will be content, so will I be.


Quote:
There are information out there and I will form an opinion based on them.
Yes, that's alright, but just as a counter example I didn't spend 3 months a piece in an English-speaking country and now only "dabble" in English. Italian is not so difficult if you learned French or Latin in school (did she? Do we know?) Knowledge of French and Italian has been a fixed point at the curriculum for young ladies for centuries and what better language is there to learn for a future history of Art-student than Italian?

Plus: the idea that one of those youngster "Royal reporters" would ever find out if Catherine in private corresponds eg with Italian friends in their language or reads books in Italian is utmost ridiculous. Why should she not? A lot of people I know are fascinated by the Italian lifestyle and learn the language purely for their own pleasure. Look, this young lady is an academic who lived for a time in Italy. Why is it so unbelievable that she might in private be well able to understand Italian? Only because she dates a man who is sometimes appearing to be a stupid oaf?
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  #490  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:05 PM
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My point is still the same, if she had done more than dabble in languages and had a serious commend of a foreign language, it would have been public knowledge by now. Imo.
Can I ask why you think that? Are Kate’s A-level subjects and results public knowledge, I have never really read about them but to be honest I have never really looked? I have only heard of her being sporty and a good student in school, other than that nothing at all. The same with St Andrews, nothing much about her academically there either, but again I have never really looked that hard for it. Perhaps she speaks another language, perhaps she doesn’t but I don’t think it is something that the press - be they the gushing Hello or not - would know about, especially when I think of the Danish media who had poor Mary fluent in Danish long before she even started lessons.
  #491  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
At the moment what's happening is the character assassination of a private citizen because she is a quiet, discreet person who has no interest in revealing all to people who are only interested in her because of her boyfriend.
Well said, JoP!

It is amazing how carried away one can get when we know so little about Kate. There is relatively little "fact" in the public domain about the life of Kate Middleton - just an awful lot of speculation by the media about who she is and what she does. Based on this "imperfect" information, any judgements about her suitability as a future consort for Will are quite likely to be flawed, IMO. As we know, the true interest of the media is in selling newspapers, so they first built up the image of Kate as the perfect English rose, and then turned against her when she took steps to prevent her harassment by the paparazzi, and when she did not put a foot wrong in the public eye. Call my response cynical, but that is how I see it.
  #492  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
My point is still the same, if she had done more than dabble in languages and had a serious commend of a foreign language, it would have been public knowledge by now......And Kate isn't a complete mystery, there are plenty of information about her.
I fail to see the relevance of the point as to whether she speaks foreign langauages or not. Nice, but not exactly a prerequisite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post

.......And Kate isn't a complete mystery, there are plenty of information about her.
.... all of which emanates from the press speculating baout her. Little hard known fact is known, as would be the case for a private citizen.
  #493  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:17 PM
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Speaking French and Spanish made her very welcome when she visited the countries where they spoke these languages, she was a great asset to her husband besides being very decorative. A bit of culture comes in handy it has to be said.
  #494  
Old 02-10-2009, 05:01 PM
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Absolutely spot on! By complaining about the way that she was harassed, she's shown the media that she's not their toy; and they don't like that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
As we know, the true interest of the media is in selling newspapers, so they first built up the image of Kate as the perfect English rose, and then turned against her when she took steps to prevent her harassment by the paparazzi, and when she did not put a foot wrong in the public eye.
  #495  
Old 02-10-2009, 05:26 PM
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I actually think what happened it just the way things go. The ‘she’s so wonderful’ stories will only sell for so long, eventually people want controversy and drama, so that what they give us. If they do get engaged I think it will turn around again for a while and she will be wonderful again but it will only last a short while before the trouble in paradise articles begin.
  #496  
Old 02-10-2009, 05:36 PM
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I'm sure we shouldn't even bother to compare Kate to Jackie.But one thing I'm 1000% sure about is that Kate will never be the new Diana (even if they finally get married...)...No way:it seems this girl only cares about clothes,clubs/nightlife and her Prince,of course...
  #497  
Old 02-10-2009, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Ann View Post
.--- snipped ---- but it is my opinion that she did much more then Kate has done YET. .
I'm sure that when Kate gets to the end of her life, she will have done more than she has now. As a 20 something, JO had done very little, IMO. (Wiki has its plus points, )
  #498  
Old 02-10-2009, 06:33 PM
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Comparing Kate to Jackie is like comparing her to the Queen. Different times different women. Like you all have said the media's interest is to sell papers not to paint Kate in the brightest color that we all would like to see.
  #499  
Old 02-10-2009, 10:39 PM
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The Media is given money to follow them and say things about them you should only trust what comes from William and His Family .
  #500  
Old 02-11-2009, 12:08 AM
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And art, and photography, and the family business...


Quote:
Originally Posted by iakynthi View Post
No way:it seems this girl only cares about clothes,clubs/nightlife and her Prince,of course...
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