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  #301  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:33 PM
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Yup, the two weeks are long over.

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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Just a thought, where is our prophesiser, Karagiosis? Are the 2 weeks up?
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  #302  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:37 PM
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Kate is supposed to have had a boyfriend when she went to St. Andrews, but they broke up. William was supposed to have had girlfriends, but there's no way of knowing how serious those relationships were or whether they were actually "relationships" at all or friendships. Kate certainly seems to be his first long-term girlfriend.
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  #303  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
you could say it is their one and only relationship......This sometimes works out and other times it doesnīt,
You are absolutely right.... this could be the relationship of their lives, or it could all end.
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  #304  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
BTW "K" seems to have disappeared into cyberspace.
I suspect Warren scared K off. Pity, it would have been fun to here more
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  #305  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:42 PM
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I don't know about joint engagements. The egos of royals seem to be quite fragile and the girl would be hit with an avalanche of interest which may not be taken kindly by the royal being usurped.

You're right Ella Kay (and by the way thank you for your post from the other day, I had never seen those photos, very cute!)

You're right about the engagement lists but the whole nature/nurture thing, one is influenced to a certain extent by their class, their environment, their parents (who knows maybe Diana regretted having gotten married at 20years old), their peers. I just think in reality given everything they won't get married until 2012 at least.

Hasn't he just set up an office? I just don't think he would bring someone else into it until he's fully into himself.
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  #306  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:07 PM
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The one year I cannot see them getting married is 2012. There is no way they will have a wedding that year, overshadowing the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic Games in London.

I think 2013/2014 is a better bet for when William wants to get married due to his desire to do this service in the RAF (and despite the fact that many service personnel are married I suspect that he is using this as an excuse to put off marriage again. I actually think that he isn't all that interested in marriage at all after the disaster of his parents' marriage which he lived through at a very close level.).

I really don't see him marrying until he has had a year or two of full-time royal duties on his own and that isn't for a number of years.

That is one of the reasons why I say 2013/2014 or even later. Women are more likely to start their families in their 30s now than they were in the past so another 5 - 10 years isn't beyong the realms of possibility.


Having said all that, I am usually completely wrong when making any form of prediction so expect an annoucement next week
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  #307  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
How do you think royal engagements are selected? Every one of them in "nitpick"ed, like it or not.
You misinterpreted my words. It is a given that Royals cannot accept all the requests that are made to them. That doesn't make Anne, Charles or the Queen any less hard working. They are full-time royal, they don't nitpick on their workload.
Quote:

I am not suggesting that Kate only do 2 engagements a month or similar - all I am saying that her engagements will have to be carefully chosen so that she has the support of the family around her, as Will will have relatively less time to do so.
In your original message you said:
"Kate will probably start royal duties in a relatively low key way, and typically will try and restrict them to broadly to the part of the country they are based in".
Royal duties occurs all over the country. She can't visit the local hospital once a week and get away with it (yes, I am being hyperbolic).
Only if she becomes a full-time royal with all the travel and being away from home that its entails will she get the respect of the public.
I know a lot of people here are cheering for them and would be happy for them to start their married life away from media glare in their Army love-nest, but it's not an option, imo.
Quote:
IMO the statement above is an example of the kind of aggressive statements some elements of the tabloid media regularly use, irrespective of who they are directibg their fire at, or what the said individual may or may not have done to deserve the response.
That statement was, imo, realist with respect to what would happen she Kate was giving ammunition to her critics by appearing work-shy. Let's not fool ourselves on how the British press work, or how flimsy public support of public figures can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabby_windsor View Post
Hasn't he just set up an office? I just don't think he would bring someone else into it until he's fully into himself.
Excatly.
William needs to establish his own profile and public persona before getting himself into something as serious as marriage.
So far, he has shown no substance, no intellectual curiosity or commitment to any character-defining cause (unlike his father at his own age).
He needs to first work on ditching the vapid party boy image because once he gets married (to Kate or whoever else), the focus will shift on fashion and baby bump, and it will be trickier to get any serious message across.

Just look at how Charles's accomplishments were disregarded in favour of Diana drama. It took him years to rehabilitate his image. I will be even harder or William because, at least, Charles had some accomplishments and substance before marrying.

At this point, William is in a steady relationship with his first serious girlfriend, who hasn't shown any sign she is going anywhere any time soon. I see no reason for him to marry now.
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  #308  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
In your original message you said:
"Kate will probably start royal duties in a relatively low key way, and typically will try and restrict them to broadly to the part of the country they are based in".
Royal duties occurs all over the country. She can't visit the local hospital once a week and get away with it (yes, I am being hyperbolic).
Only if she becomes a full-time royal with all the travel and being away from home that its entails will she get the respect of the public.

I know a lot of people here are cheering for them and would be happy for them to start their married life away from media glare in their Army love-nest, but it's not an option, imo.
I had no idea that public respect was based on how far away from home the public engagements of the royals were !

There is no doubt that if Kate, as William's wife, is to win public approval she will have to work hard and demonstrate her commitment to the causes she supports, and to the people of the UK and the commonwealth. That said, in my view, this is not a short sprint, but more like a marathon - and therefore, it makes sense to pace oneself and tread carefully. There will be little to be gained to give her full exposure from day one, without gradually being eased into the role, and to find she stumbles at an obvious road block.

If Will is still a serving member of the armed forces when they marry (the scenario we are discussing), and as a result, they are not based in London, it is only reasonable that Kate gradually build up her portfolio of engagements and commitments, just like Camilla did. Whilst the British public have a great hunger for all things royal, in the medium term, they will appreciate seeing a Princess going about her business with dignity and confidence and as a result, accept that the number of solo engagements she carries out will increase with time.

I am not suggesting that they retreat to a love nest after they marry. There is no doubt there will be a lot of media attention on every step she takes (and does not take, for that matter). It is therefore even more important that she be fully trained and ready for the engagements that no doubt she will undertake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
William needs to establish his own profile and public persona before getting himself into something as serious as marriage.
So far, he has shown no substance, no intellectual curiosity or commitment to any character-defining cause (unlike his father at his own age).
He needs to first work on ditching the vapid party boy image
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Just look at how Charles's accomplishments were disregarded in favour of Diana drama. It took him years to rehabilitate his image.
If I recall correctly, Charles himself was not carrying out many public engagements when he was a serving member of the armed forces - just like Wills. It has taken a while for Charles to develop his interests, and as a result define his public role, and an even greater time for the public to appreciate what Charles does. Diana or not, these things take time, and the Charles of today is very different to the man in his early 30s. I have no doubt the intellectual curiosity and sensitivity was there even then, it was just not apparent to the public. As regards William, his public image cannot be defined by a bunch of tabloids. The reality is that as of now, he has a very limited public presnece in the minds of the larger British public (just as his father was at that age). This will change with time as he spends more time on public engagements and when he enters full time royal life.

As regards the party lifestyle, how many times has William been seeing partying in the last 6-7 months? He is just getting on with his life, and in time, the tabloids will eventually move on as well. How the believers of the tabloids will react, I cannot comment on.

To argue that Will should wait to marry till he has established himself as a working royal just does not seem to make any sense to me. He has a full time career in the armed forces at the moment. You point of waiting a wee bit longer would be valid if Will was entering royal duties at the moment, and needed a little time to establish himself. Since his joining full time royal duties is several years away, his "royal life" could be defined along with that of his wife. I amnotsure whatwaiting would achieve in itself.
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  #309  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I had no idea that public respect was based on how far away from home the public engagements of the royals were !
What I meant is that she is unlikely to find enough things to do in just a local area to fill a varied and full agenda like full-time working royals are expected to.
Quote:
Whilst the British public have a great hunger for all things royal, in the medium term, they will appreciate seeing a Princess going about her business with dignity and confidence and as a result, accept that the number of solo engagements she carries out will increase with time.
There will will have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe the British public will not be as understanding as you.
The Camilla example is a bit odd in the context of your argument for obvious reasons (Duchess Do-little anyone?)
Quote:
If I recall correctly, Charles himself was not carrying out many public engagements when he was a serving member of the armed forces - just like Wills. It has taken a while for Charles to develop his interests, and as a result define his public role, and an even greater time for the public to appreciate what Charles does.
This is incorrect. Charles has undertaken a fair amount of public duties ever since being officially made Prince of Wales in 1969, as far as his army career allowed of course, but it was still a hell lot more than William has been doing.
You also forget that the Prince's Trust, his 'character-defining' cause and probably his greatest achievement, was created in 1974.
Charles's intellectual tastes and leanings were also known to the public. His curiosity for other cultures, his liking for cultural institutions, etc., all that was public knowledge.
As far as his public image goes, it was established before his marriage that he was a sophisticated, worldly, dutiful royal.
Quote:
The reality is that as of now, he has a very limited public presnece in the minds of the larger British public .
Exactly my point.
Quote:
As regards the party lifestyle, how many times has William been seeing partying in the last 6-7 months? He is just getting on with his life, and in time, the tabloids will eventually move on as well. How the believers of the tabloids will react, I cannot comment on.
You cannot possibly put down his image problem down to the press or the gullible public only.
For a long time all William seemed to be doing when not in Army barracks was stumbling out of nightclubs . The image stuck, whether you think it's fair or not.
It is not just the partying that was problematic, but also the percieved absence of other, higher forms of entertainment (the rabid paparazzi who supposidely follow him everywhere have yet to catch him exiting a theater or any place of culture on his free time), coupled with less than stellar TV interviews.

So far, imo, he has botched the opportunity the Army has offered him to restore his image (RAF wings, Chinook). He has been given another chance with that Search and Rescue gig. Hopefully he will use it wisely.
Quote:
Since his joining full time royal duties is several years away, his "royal life" could be defined along with that of his wife.
Again, I will repeat what I have said in my first post. When he marries, the focus will shift to fashion and baby bump. If he hasn't established a profile by then, he will forever be a carton cut-out, imo of course.
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  #310  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:14 PM
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I do think William will have an advantage in the "public fascination" area that Charles didn't -- being Diana's son will probably guarantee him some measure of public interest for a while at least, even when the focus does shift somewhat to his wife and children.

If the focus does shift, I wonder if William will be bothered by it as much as Charles seems to have been. Just judging from media appearances and reports, Charles seems to have a more love/hate relationship with the press, while William's mostly just seems like hate. Maybe he'd like being the one who isn't always front and center?
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  #311  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:31 PM
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Idriel quote]It is not just the partying that was problematic, but also the percieved absence of other, higher forms of entertainment (the rabid paparazzi who supposidely follow him everywhere have yet to catch him exiting a theater or any place of culture on his free time), coupled with less than stellar TV interviews.quote)

This is unfortunately very true, if they are following him everywhere taking his photo it is surprising(or not) that he hasnīt been found coming out of something a little more cultural than the nightclubs.
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  #312  
Old 01-15-2009, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Charles has undertaken a fair amount of public duties ever since being officially made Prince of Wales in 1969, as far as his army career allowed of course,
I am pointing this out in the nicest possible way, Charles was in the Navy, not the Army.
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  #313  
Old 01-15-2009, 05:50 PM
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Wow. Pages and pages, years and years.

At this point, I really don't think we can read anything into anything that the two do or don't do, any more. The next generation up, there was a studied significance to each action: when this person appeared, whether that person was spending the night, where this vehicle was left to be seen.

Wales & Middleton are pretty much doing whatever pleases them, and I think we might be driving ourselves into headaches trying to divine the signs. (Or not. I mean, I don't have a horse in this race.)

Maybe all they do behind closed doors is play EverQuest.

Six years is a long time to date, 20% of their lifespans.

My dad said something once: "If you want to be married, there aren't any obstacles." While this is somewhat different for Royals, if one wants to do it, it happens. (As we saw in 2005.)

Presently, my brother in law and his fiance own a house together, are in their late thirties, are engaged. They want to hold their wedding at home, and at present (and for the past 2 years,) they have been undergoing massive home renovations. All they have to do is keep doing the renovations, and they won't get married. I think we may be looking at the first Winchester House for their neighborhood.

As someone pointed out very astutely upthread, we have no need for William to marry and reproduce; the Queen has heirs a-plenty. William doesn't owe his country a marriage and an heir, dinner and a show.

The throne could pass to William, then sideways to Harry. If Harry never marries and reproduces, then up to Uncle Andrew and if he's stepped out of the canoe by then, to Beatrice (and her heirs if any,) then on to Eugenie (and her heirs.) If these four cousins have all remained happily unmarried and/or without offspring, we've got two more in reserve with the Wessex clan. The BRF is solid for a good century on heirs without any marriage at all by William.

Maybe he has decided. And maybe this is the decision. And maybe Wales & Middleton are showing us their future, in the form of the present.

And maybe - that's just pretty OK.
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  #314  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:00 PM
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Queen Beatrice? Queen Eugenie? I may go back to Queen Kate. I donīt see much need for Prince William to marry either, if he is comfortable the way he is and Kate isnīt pressuring him for marriage they can go on for years. The only problem is that, at least up until now, the British people have taken the role of King and Queen very seriously and they, when you get down to it, are paying the salaries, so they will have a say, and of course back to the fact that the Queen has to give her permission and even if Prince William is old enough to marry without her permission I really believe this is highly improbable.
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  #315  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:03 PM
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Maybe
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  #316  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:13 PM
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Well, if they succeeded, I believe it would be either Elizabeth III or Mary III (for Beatrice) or Victoria II (for Eugenie). But that's OT.

You are right - William does not have to marry. There are 1500 person in the line, so there is no worry. Yet I believe he will marry...
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  #317  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:19 PM
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Really the only incognito at the moment is to whom? Might be Kate, might not be, it might be someone one we have never heard of and still a little girl......Prince Charles and Diana!! That isnīt really the best example I suppose. Charles didnīt marry his true love for years and years.....
What fun we are going to have during all that time.
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  #318  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I hope she stays Miss Kate Middleton....

Oh, should I be shocked, but she has to marry someone???
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  #319  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Queen Beatrice? Queen Eugenie? I may go back to Queen Kate. I donīt see much need for Prince William to marry either, if he is comfortable the way he is and Kate isnīt pressuring him for marriage they can go on for years. The only problem is that, at least up until now, the British people have taken the role of King and Queen very seriously and they, when you get down to it, are paying the salaries, so they will have a say, and of course back to the fact that the Queen has to give her permission and even if Prince William is old enough to marry without her permission I really believe this is highly improbable.
William still needs the permission of Parliament, if he doesn't get the Queen's personal permission.

Unlike you or I his marriage is a political matter as well as a personal one.
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  #320  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:24 PM
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IMO they have keep kate's image clean for just that reason what can they say about a woman who has keep her mouth shut for six years. She has made herslef untouchable. Never a hair out of place. No racy past, no jobs that she has used royal contacts to get. how many of us have not gotten a job from a parents friend. I know I have..she has left no window open. yes her educations seems to have not perduced what many think an exceptalbe job. but I would take working at home with my mother any day. when she was younger she had one or two bad moments coming out of night clubs but most of the time with William at her side. what can anyone really say bad about her. except maybe her breeding,(and I use that word with a smile) but who really wants to play that card.
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