William and Kate: engagement and relationship rumours and musings 2009

[Mermaid1962]

Yup, the two weeks are long over.

Just a thought, where is our prophesiser, Karagiosis? Are the 2 weeks up?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Kate is supposed to have had a boyfriend when she went to St. Andrews, but they broke up. William was supposed to have had girlfriends, but there's no way of knowing how serious those relationships were or whether they were actually "relationships" at all or friendships. Kate certainly seems to be his first long-term girlfriend.

 

[muriel]

you could say it is their one and only relationship......This sometimes works out and other times it doesn´t,

You are absolutely right.... this could be the relationship of their lives, or it could all end.

 

[muriel]

BTW "K" seems to have disappeared into cyberspace.

I suspect Warren scared K off. Pity, it would have been fun to here more

 

[gabby_windsor]

I don't know about joint engagements. The egos of royals seem to be quite fragile and the girl would be hit with an avalanche of interest which may not be taken kindly by the royal being usurped.

You're right Ella Kay (and by the way thank you for your post from the other day, I had never seen those photos, very cute!)

You're right about the engagement lists but the whole nature/nurture thing, one is influenced to a certain extent by their class, their environment, their parents (who knows maybe Diana regretted having gotten married at 20years old), their peers. I just think in reality given everything they won't get married until 2012 at least.

Hasn't he just set up an office? I just don't think he would bring someone else into it until he's fully into himself.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The one year I cannot see them getting married is 2012. There is no way they will have a wedding that year, overshadowing the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic Games in London.

I think 2013/2014 is a better bet for when William wants to get married due to his desire to do this service in the RAF (and despite the fact that many service personnel are married I suspect that he is using this as an excuse to put off marriage again. I actually think that he isn't all that interested in marriage at all after the disaster of his parents' marriage which he lived through at a very close level.).

I really don't see him marrying until he has had a year or two of full-time royal duties on his own and that isn't for a number of years.

That is one of the reasons why I say 2013/2014 or even later. Women are more likely to start their families in their 30s now than they were in the past so another 5 - 10 years isn't beyong the realms of possibility.


Having said all that, I am usually completely wrong when making any form of prediction so expect an annoucement next week

 

[Idriel]

How do you think royal engagements are selected? Every one of them in "nitpick"ed, like it or not.

You misinterpreted my words. It is a given that Royals cannot accept all the requests that are made to them. That doesn't make Anne, Charles or the Queen any less hard working. They are full-time royal, they don't nitpick on their workload.

I am not suggesting that Kate only do 2 engagements a month or similar - all I am saying that her engagements will have to be carefully chosen so that she has the support of the family around her, as Will will have relatively less time to do so.

In your original message you said:
"Kate will probably start royal duties in a relatively low key way, and typically will try and restrict them to broadly to the part of the country they are based in".
Royal duties occurs all over the country. She can't visit the local hospital once a week and get away with it (yes, I am being hyperbolic).
Only if she becomes a full-time royal with all the travel and being away from home that its entails will she get the respect of the public.
I know a lot of people here are cheering for them and would be happy for them to start their married life away from media glare in their Army love-nest, but it's not an option, imo.

IMO the statement above is an example of the kind of aggressive statements some elements of the tabloid media regularly use, irrespective of who they are directibg their fire at, or what the said individual may or may not have done to deserve the response.

That statement was, imo, realist with respect to what would happen she Kate was giving ammunition to her critics by appearing work-shy. Let's not fool ourselves on how the British press work, or how flimsy public support of public figures can be.

Hasn't he just set up an office? I just don't think he would bring someone else into it until he's fully into himself.

Excatly.
William needs to establish his own profile and public persona before getting himself into something as serious as marriage.
So far, he has shown no substance, no intellectual curiosity or commitment to any character-defining cause (unlike his father at his own age).
He needs to first work on ditching the vapid party boy image because once he gets married (to Kate or whoever else), the focus will shift on fashion and baby bump, and it will be trickier to get any serious message across.

Just look at how Charles's accomplishments were disregarded in favour of Diana drama. It took him years to rehabilitate his image. I will be even harder or William because, at least, Charles had some accomplishments and substance before marrying.

At this point, William is in a steady relationship with his first serious girlfriend, who hasn't shown any sign she is going anywhere any time soon. I see no reason for him to marry now.

 

[muriel]

In your original message you said:
"Kate will probably start royal duties in a relatively low key way, and typically will try and restrict them to broadly to the part of the country they are based in".
Royal duties occurs all over the country. She can't visit the local hospital once a week and get away with it (yes, I am being hyperbolic).
Only if she becomes a full-time royal with all the travel and being away from home that its entails will she get the respect of the public.

I know a lot of people here are cheering for them and would be happy for them to start their married life away from media glare in their Army love-nest, but it's not an option, imo.

I had no idea that public respect was based on how far away from home the public engagements of the royals were !

There is no doubt that if Kate, as William's wife, is to win public approval she will have to work hard and demonstrate her commitment to the causes she supports, and to the people of the UK and the commonwealth. That said, in my view, this is not a short sprint, but more like a marathon - and therefore, it makes sense to pace oneself and tread carefully. There will be little to be gained to give her full exposure from day one, without gradually being eased into the role, and to find she stumbles at an obvious road block.

If Will is still a serving member of the armed forces when they marry (the scenario we are discussing), and as a result, they are not based in London, it is only reasonable that Kate gradually build up her portfolio of engagements and commitments, just like Camilla did. Whilst the British public have a great hunger for all things royal, in the medium term, they will appreciate seeing a Princess going about her business with dignity and confidence and as a result, accept that the number of solo engagements she carries out will increase with time.

I am not suggesting that they retreat to a love nest after they marry. There is no doubt there will be a lot of media attention on every step she takes (and does not take, for that matter). It is therefore even more important that she be fully trained and ready for the engagements that no doubt she will undertake.

William needs to establish his own profile and public persona before getting himself into something as serious as marriage.
So far, he has shown no substance, no intellectual curiosity or commitment to any character-defining cause (unlike his father at his own age).
He needs to first work on ditching the vapid party boy image

Just look at how Charles's accomplishments were disregarded in favour of Diana drama. It took him years to rehabilitate his image.

If I recall correctly, Charles himself was not carrying out many public engagements when he was a serving member of the armed forces - just like Wills. It has taken a while for Charles to develop his interests, and as a result define his public role, and an even greater time for the public to appreciate what Charles does. Diana or not, these things take time, and the Charles of today is very different to the man in his early 30s. I have no doubt the intellectual curiosity and sensitivity was there even then, it was just not apparent to the public. As regards William, his public image cannot be defined by a bunch of tabloids. The reality is that as of now, he has a very limited public presnece in the minds of the larger British public (just as his father was at that age). This will change with time as he spends more time on public engagements and when he enters full time royal life.

As regards the party lifestyle, how many times has William been seeing partying in the last 6-7 months? He is just getting on with his life, and in time, the tabloids will eventually move on as well. How the believers of the tabloids will react, I cannot comment on.

To argue that Will should wait to marry till he has established himself as a working royal just does not seem to make any sense to me. He has a full time career in the armed forces at the moment. You point of waiting a wee bit longer would be valid if Will was entering royal duties at the moment, and needed a little time to establish himself. Since his joining full time royal duties is several years away, his "royal life" could be defined along with that of his wife. I amnotsure whatwaiting would achieve in itself.

 

[Idriel]

I had no idea that public respect was based on how far away from home the public engagements of the royals were !

What I meant is that she is unlikely to find enough things to do in just a local area to fill a varied and full agenda like full-time working royals are expected to.

Whilst the British public have a great hunger for all things royal, in the medium term, they will appreciate seeing a Princess going about her business with dignity and confidence and as a result, accept that the number of solo engagements she carries out will increase with time.

There will will have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe the British public will not be as understanding as you.
The Camilla example is a bit odd in the context of your argument for obvious reasons (Duchess Do-little anyone?)

If I recall correctly, Charles himself was not carrying out many public engagements when he was a serving member of the armed forces - just like Wills. It has taken a while for Charles to develop his interests, and as a result define his public role, and an even greater time for the public to appreciate what Charles does.

This is incorrect. Charles has undertaken a fair amount of public duties ever since being officially made Prince of Wales in 1969, as far as his army career allowed of course, but it was still a hell lot more than William has been doing.
You also forget that the Prince's Trust, his 'character-defining' cause and probably his greatest achievement, was created in 1974.
Charles's intellectual tastes and leanings were also known to the public. His curiosity for other cultures, his liking for cultural institutions, etc., all that was public knowledge.
As far as his public image goes, it was established before his marriage that he was a sophisticated, worldly, dutiful royal.

The reality is that as of now, he has a very limited public presnece in the minds of the larger British public .

Exactly my point.

As regards the party lifestyle, how many times has William been seeing partying in the last 6-7 months? He is just getting on with his life, and in time, the tabloids will eventually move on as well. How the believers of the tabloids will react, I cannot comment on.

You cannot possibly put down his image problem down to the press or the gullible public only.
For a long time all William seemed to be doing when not in Army barracks was stumbling out of nightclubs . The image stuck, whether you think it's fair or not.
It is not just the partying that was problematic, but also the percieved absence of other, higher forms of entertainment (the rabid paparazzi who supposidely follow him everywhere have yet to catch him exiting a theater or any place of culture on his free time), coupled with less than stellar TV interviews.

So far, imo, he has botched the opportunity the Army has offered him to restore his image (RAF wings, Chinook). He has been given another chance with that Search and Rescue gig. Hopefully he will use it wisely.

Since his joining full time royal duties is several years away, his "royal life" could be defined along with that of his wife.

Again, I will repeat what I have said in my first post. When he marries, the focus will shift to fashion and baby bump. If he hasn't established a profile by then, he will forever be a carton cut-out, imo of course.

 

[Ella Kay]

I do think William will have an advantage in the "public fascination" area that Charles didn't -- being Diana's son will probably guarantee him some measure of public interest for a while at least, even when the focus does shift somewhat to his wife and children.

If the focus does shift, I wonder if William will be bothered by it as much as Charles seems to have been. Just judging from media appearances and reports, Charles seems to have a more love/hate relationship with the press, while William's mostly just seems like hate. Maybe he'd like being the one who isn't always front and center?

 

[Menarue]

Idriel quote]It is not just the partying that was problematic, but also the percieved absence of other, higher forms of entertainment (the rabid paparazzi who supposidely follow him everywhere have yet to catch him exiting a theater or any place of culture on his free time), coupled with less than stellar TV interviews.quote)

This is unfortunately very true, if they are following him everywhere taking his photo it is surprising(or not) that he hasn´t been found coming out of something a little more cultural than the nightclubs.

 

[Skydragon]

Charles has undertaken a fair amount of public duties ever since being officially made Prince of Wales in 1969, as far as his army career allowed of course,

I am pointing this out in the nicest possible way, Charles was in the Navy, not the Army.

 

[NotAPretender]

Wow. Pages and pages, years and years.

At this point, I really don't think we can read anything into anything that the two do or don't do, any more. The next generation up, there was a studied significance to each action: when this person appeared, whether that person was spending the night, where this vehicle was left to be seen.

Wales & Middleton are pretty much doing whatever pleases them, and I think we might be driving ourselves into headaches trying to divine the signs. (Or not. I mean, I don't have a horse in this race.)

Maybe all they do behind closed doors is play EverQuest.

Six years is a long time to date, 20% of their lifespans.

My dad said something once: "If you want to be married, there aren't any obstacles." While this is somewhat different for Royals, if one wants to do it, it happens. (As we saw in 2005.)

Presently, my brother in law and his fiance own a house together, are in their late thirties, are engaged. They want to hold their wedding at home, and at present (and for the past 2 years,) they have been undergoing massive home renovations. All they have to do is keep doing the renovations, and they won't get married. I think we may be looking at the first Winchester House for their neighborhood.

As someone pointed out very astutely upthread, we have no need for William to marry and reproduce; the Queen has heirs a-plenty. William doesn't owe his country a marriage and an heir, dinner and a show.

The throne could pass to William, then sideways to Harry. If Harry never marries and reproduces, then up to Uncle Andrew and if he's stepped out of the canoe by then, to Beatrice (and her heirs if any,) then on to Eugenie (and her heirs.) If these four cousins have all remained happily unmarried and/or without offspring, we've got two more in reserve with the Wessex clan. The BRF is solid for a good century on heirs without any marriage at all by William.

Maybe he has decided. And maybe this is the decision. And maybe Wales & Middleton are showing us their future, in the form of the present.

And maybe - that's just pretty OK.

 

[Menarue]

Queen Beatrice? Queen Eugenie? I may go back to Queen Kate. I don´t see much need for Prince William to marry either, if he is comfortable the way he is and Kate isn´t pressuring him for marriage they can go on for years. The only problem is that, at least up until now, the British people have taken the role of King and Queen very seriously and they, when you get down to it, are paying the salaries, so they will have a say, and of course back to the fact that the Queen has to give her permission and even if Prince William is old enough to marry without her permission I really believe this is highly improbable.

 

[iakynthi]

Maybe

 

[Kotroman]

Well, if they succeeded, I believe it would be either Elizabeth III or Mary III (for Beatrice) or Victoria II (for Eugenie). But that's OT.

You are right - William does not have to marry. There are 1500 person in the line, so there is no worry. Yet I believe he will marry...

 

[Menarue]

Really the only incognito at the moment is to whom? Might be Kate, might not be, it might be someone one we have never heard of and still a little girl......Prince Charles and Diana!! That isn´t really the best example I suppose. Charles didn´t marry his true love for years and years.....
What fun we are going to have during all that time.

 

[Lady Ann]

I hope she stays Miss Kate Middleton....

Oh, should I be shocked, but she has to marry someone???

 

[Iluvbertie]

Queen Beatrice? Queen Eugenie? I may go back to Queen Kate. I don´t see much need for Prince William to marry either, if he is comfortable the way he is and Kate isn´t pressuring him for marriage they can go on for years. The only problem is that, at least up until now, the British people have taken the role of King and Queen very seriously and they, when you get down to it, are paying the salaries, so they will have a say, and of course back to the fact that the Queen has to give her permission and even if Prince William is old enough to marry without her permission I really believe this is highly improbable.

William still needs the permission of Parliament, if he doesn't get the Queen's personal permission.

Unlike you or I his marriage is a political matter as well as a personal one.

 

[Lady Ann]

IMO they have keep kate's image clean for just that reason what can they say about a woman who has keep her mouth shut for six years. She has made herslef untouchable. Never a hair out of place. No racy past, no jobs that she has used royal contacts to get. how many of us have not gotten a job from a parents friend. I know I have..she has left no window open. yes her educations seems to have not perduced what many think an exceptalbe job. but I would take working at home with my mother any day. when she was younger she had one or two bad moments coming out of night clubs but most of the time with William at her side. what can anyone really say bad about her. except maybe her breeding,(and I use that word with a smile) but who really wants to play that card.

 

[Idriel]

I am pointing this out in the nicest possible way, Charles was in the Navy, not the Army.

Oh I'm sorry!
Typical civilian gaffe.

 

[Penny Royalty]

I think there is pressure that comes naturally with the playing out of future rolls, especially of Kate, where one's every notion gets filtered by a profundity of expectations, obligations and responsibilities. Sometimes one can think of the fairy tale inclinations where there is a happy ending and life is good along the way. And the truth is Kate is traveling upon a wonder in journey to finding what she does fitting. She is being led by William into acceptance and affinity to the likeliness of being considered for the throne. I think it is no small measure and yet sometimes one must relate to everyone and not only her betters. What goes on behind doors is fathomable only through our imagination but I bet there is allot of self criticizing and looking within. One knows through the environment of our World's nestle that there are checks and balances and thus order, and in that order right and wrong. I'm one to believe it will be trying and challenging for anyone of power to choose for the many what is to be done time upon time. For that I give credit to Kate and as well to William for imagining, perfecting, and participating in all mannered ways, keeping in mind the sake of their country and fellow man. Wow is what comes to my mind. For that I keep visiting here in awe. It's nice to follow everyone's voice. Sometimes though I have nothing to say. So excuse me if I may seem seldom to write. I enjoy thoroughly. Good day.

 

[Menarue]

Oh, should I be shocked, but she has to marry someone???

My grandmother´s twin was a perfectly happy maiden lady......
But, I do hope Kate gets married, just not to Prince William.

William still needs the permission of Parliament, if he doesn't get the Queen's personal permission.
Unlike you or I his marriage is a political matter as well as a personal one.

I agree wholeheartedly that is my objection to Kate, but I can´t imagine Prince William even if he has the permission of Parliament, going against his grandmother´s wishes. Even Prince Charles only really declared he was going to marry Camilla after his grandmother´s death. He really loved his grandmother and if I am not mistaken she did not want him to marry Camilla.
Before anyone says anything here, I am glad he did.

 

[Incas]

Charles was known to have had a very close relationship with his grandmother. I haven't seen any article/interview to claim William and the Queen has a similarly close bond.

 

[Menarue]

Charles was known to have had a very close relationship with his grandmother. I haven't seen any article/interview to claim William and the Queen has a similarly close bond.

Not necessarily a bond but a deep respect for his grandmother and sovereign.

 

[Lady Ann]

So do you think this deep respect for his grandmother is what is holding up his marriage." Now I am not putting words were they should not be" but I don't believe there has ever been a statement from any one the Queen, Charles, William, Kate, CH, ect...any one either for or against Kate... I have seen many pictures of Charles and Kate at the same functions also the Queen. At Royal weddings even when William was not there. IMO this speaks loudly of some type of approval! Right???

 

[Menarue]

Actually I think we were talking about a possible marriage in the future, and that Prince William would respect his grandmother´s wishes. There is no evidence that Kate has ever actually met the Queen or even talked to her, I think we were discussing this some time ago. She went to these functions because the Prince invited her as his guest, or in the case of the wedding because Peter and Autumn invited her. Once the Queen is actually seen accompanied by Kate, then we can be sure that a wedding is in the offing, but being present at the same venue is no indication at all except that Kate is William´s friend (or girlfriend) and that is why she was there.

 

[Lady Ann]

Well, I know she is the Queen and all but she is also a grandmother not being from the same background ...I cant put my head around that she would not meet someone that William has been dating so long. so why there is no evidence that they have spoke. IMO I can't see HM letting it go this long with out a word to Miss Middleton. but then again what do I know...lol ...

 

[muriel]

Once the Queen is actually seen accompanied by Kate, then we can be sure that a wedding is in the offing, but being present at the same venue is no indication at all except that Kate is William´s friend (or girlfriend) and that is why she was there.

In my view, it is highly unliklely that the Queen will be photographed with Kate unless the palace are getting ready to put out an engagement announcement. I think it is highly unlikely that the Queen and Kate have not met in an informal setting, probably on more than one occassion..... far away from prying lenses.

 

[Menarue]

You may be right but I wouldn´t bet on it.....perhaps she has seen her through her racing binoculars.