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  #1201  
Old 10-01-2008, 07:09 PM
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I've deleted the discussion about a pretty nasty insult toward Kate, had it been spelled correctly. Let's move on, please.

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  #1202  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Kate's recent PR strategy or whatever poeple call it is a complete desaster IMO, very very amateurish. Her problem is that she never followed kind of a red line in her life but went zigzag all the time, at least from when she got her degree. She has followed several "career paths" (Jigsaw, photography etc), none of them worked out, then had some strange attempts to do charity (sisterhood, roller disco etc) which can be considered poor at best, now this desperate but embarrassing "involvement" in party pieces, with her picture on the website and naming items after William and Harry as if to visibly confirm, yes, I really do work. To me she seems completely lost, not knowing to run in what direction until William please please will release her from this dilemma by popping the question. Kate is never acting, always re-acting = giving in to the demands of the relationship or public opinion and I believe this is a reason why people don't respect her. Always pleasing everyone, first William now the media, never showing some attitude towards her own life and to blame the paparazzi for preventing Kate from living a normal life with a normal job is not more than a sad excuse in this context. If Kate had gone down Chelsy's path, simply continuing with her life and education / job instead of transforming into Waity Katie etc for many years, with her public reception all over the place, she would be in an easier position now with William doing his thing and Kate doing hers and not Kate waiting and waiting and waiting for William to react, and it turns out almost impossible for Kate to fill this waiting time with something substantial, as we all have seen for months and years now.
I agree her PR is not very good, her Mother doesn't seem to know what role Kate plays within the company. It's been chopped and changed since the Daily Mail article overnight. The first version in the about section mentions that Kate produces the cherry picking catalogues and website with vicky, but if you then read the amended part it's now just Vicky who is behind the cherry picking catalogues and website.

The Middleton's are in a panic over something, I wonder if she is about to be given her marching orders for good. The Palace knives have been out for Kate for awhile, and William I believe is keeping a distance away from the circus that Kate has created for herself.

Like I have said the only person who can help Kate is herself, and she should stop playing the victim. It's not healthy for her, and she should stop doing it.
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  #1203  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:20 PM
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I don't know, I think Kate's okay, but not spectacular. The thing is somehow I feel he is not going to marry her. Don't ask me why it's just that they seem so young and all that it looks to me as if they'd meet someone else still.
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  #1204  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:52 PM
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I hate to say it but the Party Pieces site looks very downmarket.

I know its her family's business but it just looks like a housewife who's running a little business on the side.

If this is Kate's idea of good PR (and if its what she grew up with, it may be all she knows), there's a vast gulf between this and a more upmarket brand like the Royal Family.

I fear there may be a culture divide between the two which may be hard to overcome.
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  #1205  
Old 10-01-2008, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kezza View Post
her Mother doesn't seem to know what role Kate plays within the company. It's been chopped and changed since the Daily Mail article overnight. The first version in the about section mentions that Kate produces the cherry picking catalogues and website with vicky, but if you then read the amended part it's now just Vicky who is behind the cherry picking catalogues and website.
I'm sure she does :) She just doesn't want to reveal anything and everything that's going on inside, and can only be too careful on what to write -- especially with people like us with all sorts of interpretation. If you recall, the original "About Us" section mentioned that Kate helped Vicky with the Cherrypicked catalogue and website. It never mentioned that Vicky wasn't part of it. Now they've edited it perhaps to minimize Kate's name in the section (after all, aren't some people accusing them of PR?!) but that doesn't mean Kate didn't help. Same can be said with the Starlight Charity. Emma Samms herself mentioned Kate. I prefer the new About Us section... it shows a more collective approach and gives credit to the whole team.
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  #1206  
Old 10-01-2008, 10:11 PM
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It's a no-win situation. If the details of Kate's work with PP are put on the website, it's judged as an attempt by the Middletons to improve her reputation (that's not to say that I don't think it's partly a PR move -- I do. But I also think that Kate probably is really doing what the website said she's doing). If her work with the company isn't publicized, she's accused of being a lazy layabout.

I have a feeling that Carole, as a mother, is probably more bothered by Kate's negative press than Kate herself is, and maybe she jumped the gun and revealed more about Kate's work than she should have in an attempt to protect her child and stop the pointed and (IMO) mostly unwarranted negative press.

But I agree with putski - the revised version of the "About Me" page is an improvement, and it allows Kate's contributions to be acknowledged without looking so overtly like they're trying to counteract the negative "Waity Katie" silliness.
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  #1207  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:08 AM
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In a family firm they can do whatever they want, they could make her Managing Director if they wanted to without her even being there. Not that long ago we had a scandal in Britain about salaries being paid out for family members while they went about their lives somewhere else.
I am not saying that this is the case with Kate, I am just saying that on the "Party Pieces" website they can say whatever they want - or they think convenient to counterract the negative publicity she has been getting lately.
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  #1208  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Kate's recent PR strategy or whatever poeple call it is a complete desaster IMO, very very amateurish. Her problem is that she never followed kind of a red line in her life but went zigzag all the time, at least from when she got her degree. She has followed several "career paths" (Jigsaw, photography etc), none of them worked out, then had some strange attempts to do charity (sisterhood, roller disco etc) which can be considered poor at best, now this desperate but embarrassing "involvement" in party pieces, with her picture on the website and naming items after William and Harry as if to visibly confirm, yes, I really do work. To me she seems completely lost, not knowing to run in what direction until William please please will release her from this dilemma by popping the question. Kate is never acting, always re-acting = giving in to the demands of the relationship or public opinion and I believe this is a reason why people don't respect her. Always pleasing everyone, first William now the media, never showing some attitude towards her own life and to blame the paparazzi for preventing Kate from living a normal life with a normal job is not more than a sad excuse in this context. If Kate had gone down Chelsy's path, simply continuing with her life and education / job instead of transforming into Waity Katie etc for many years, with her public reception all over the place, she would be in an easier position now with William doing his thing and Kate doing hers and not Kate waiting and waiting and waiting for William to react, and it turns out almost impossible for Kate to fill this waiting time with something substantial, as we all have seen for months and years now.
I think this is a slightly negative interpretation of the situation. I think Kate did not set out to turn herself into Waity-Katie. After university, she went out and got herself a job at Jigsaw, and probably, like a lot of people her age, was a bit unsure of what she wanted to do with her life. She was also careful to try and make herself as available to Wills as she possibly could, hence the 4 day week. Nothing wrong with that. My guess is that she would have only done that if she had confidence in her relationship with Wills. We all saw the ensuing hounding by the press, which probably caused her to relook at the viability of living alone in London and working with Jigsaw. After a while she decided that it was probably safest and easiest for her to move back to her parents and to start working in the family business, and doing some charity work on the side. I can't see anything wrong with that. She may not have a high profile PR team trying to manage her Press, but thats the best she could do in the circumstances. As regards her charity endevoirs, my guess is that she was probably told to pull out of the boat race by CH. I cant see what was wrong with the roller disco event other than somepapsgetoing very excityed about a photo of her when she fell down.

I dont think the comparison with Chelsy works. Firstly, Harry and Chelsy are younger than W&K, and one might argue, perhaps further away from a commitment - which would mean it would be that much more imprtant for Chelsy tohave a career of her own. Secondly, lets not forget that Chelsy too is doing her degree in the UK so that she can be closer to Harry when he comes off his army duties. Thirdly, when W&K graduate, they had already known each othert for 3-4 years, and I guess Kate could be that much more confident of her relationship with Will. Even today, most people thaink that Harry will eventually settle down with Chelsy - its too early to be forming views.

I really dont think Kate is "giving in to the demands of .....public opinion" in any way. The press only just rrecently got onto the bandwagon that she should do some charity work. She had attempted the charity boat race in summer 2007 and I am sure the charity roller disco would have taken some planning!

In some ways, i am glad that Kte is not showing too muchattitude towards the press - as we can recall, Charles and Diana's dalliance with the media in the late 1980s and the 1990s did not end well!!!1
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  #1209  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
In a family firm they can do whatever they want, they could make her Managing Director if they wanted to without her even being there. Not that long ago we had a scandal in Britain about salaries being paid out for family members while they went about their lives somewhere else.
I am not saying that this is the case with Kate, I am just saying that on the "Party Pieces" website they can say whatever they want - or they think convenient to counterract the negative publicity she has been getting lately.
What should the poor girl do? Here in Germany we have experts which swore an oath at court to be honest in their reports for all sorts of topics. Maybe Catherine should get one such expert about quality of work and have her achievements examined and publish that report?

Come on, what a lot of you are doing here is working out "conspiracy" theories on a level similar to those surrounding Diana's death. meaning that even facts given by the family on their website is not taken seriously but considered to be just lies or "PR". Give that girl a break, please. because we're not discussing new protagonists in a soap opera but real people with feelings. We've seen with Diana where it can lead once you take what is said or written about you as more important than the real life you're living in. I doubt William will end that way but I see the prize Catherine has to pay at the moment.

As for Catherine's potential as a queen consort: if dressed in gala dress with a tiara on her head she will certainly look the part. But the most important job of the queen consort is IMHO her being a good and steadfast trooper at her husband's side and to give guidance to the Royal family. I could think of no-one better gifted in the circle of the younger Royals than her to lead the others by her example. Yes, she goes out to nightclubs like they do - but rarely does so and when she comes out she looks a decent girl. She is not imbibed by alcohol herself but the kind of girl any mother would wish her son to go to the club with: she surely is able to take care of William, helps him to have fun and to stay in line.

Becoming the future queen consort is such a boring aim: if Catherine wants to have the job and William is happy with her: wonderful!
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  #1210  
Old 10-02-2008, 04:52 AM
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I really hope he doesn't marry her.
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  #1211  
Old 10-02-2008, 05:40 AM
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I really hope he doesn't marry her.
Only her or any girl?
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  #1212  
Old 10-02-2008, 06:50 AM
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I hate to say it but the Party Pieces site looks very downmarket.

I know its her family's business but it just looks like a housewife who's running a little business on the side.

If this is Kate's idea of good PR (and if its what she grew up with, it may be all she knows), there's a vast gulf between this and a more upmarket brand like the Royal Family.

I fear there may be a culture divide between the two which may be hard to overcome.
while i'm sure the company could be more successful (or maybe not, afterall it's only party ware), it makes no difference what we think of the site...the company obviously makes enough money to give the family a very nice life.

when people mention the fact that catherine comes from a different class (by british standards) it makes those people sound like snobs. this is not the dark ages or the late 1970's/early 1980's for that matter and class/breeding obviously don't play any role in determining who the royals marry. just because some of the marriages haven't worked out, doesn't mean that all of them wont - sophie and edward have a solid marriage from what we've all seen. for all my "defense" of catherine, i don't think she's brilliant or the best catch in the world, but she obviously has things that matter going for her such as discretion, loyalty, a brain in her head and the fact that she loves william and hr loves her. yes she will no doubt find it very hard if/when she marries into this family but any woman would even they came from the right "class" or another royal family.

they've obviously discussed the marriage topic very seriously and she knows exactly where she stands, whether it's that she IS goint to be his wife but must wait until he finishes some commitments or that she will never be his wife but is content to be his companion...she is obviously quite comfortable doing what she doing not matter what the public thinks and i think that goes a long way to saying what kind of person she really is.
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  #1213  
Old 10-02-2008, 07:58 AM
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Sophie is of royal descent.
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  #1214  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:04 AM
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Yeah, I know it sounds snobbish but there it is.

I don't know what Sophie's background is but if Kate's family's wealth comes from the dot.com explosion, then there is a big cultural divide even among the traditionally well-off middle class and the dot.com millionaires. The dot.commers are less interested in staking a mark in society as much as they want to just make enough money to do what they want regardless of what the rest of society thinks. They have a very individualistic and somewhat renegade reputation.

The British monarchy is all about upholding British society and is by nature very conservative. Kate herself looks very conservative but if her latest attempts at PR are any indication, she's got a very different idea of what makes good PR than what we've traditionally seen with girlfriends of the royals.

I think it would have been better for her to do nothing.
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  #1215  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:13 AM
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Sophie is a distant cousin of both Diana and Prince Edward. At the time of the marriage this was remarked upon mainly because of the likeness between her and Diana.
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  #1216  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:13 AM
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Yeah, I know it sounds snobbish but there it is.

I don't know what Sophie's background is but if Kate's family's wealth comes from the dot.com explosion, then there is a big cultural divide even among the traditionally well-off middle class and the dot.com millionaires. The dot.commers are less interested in staking a mark in society as much as they want to just make enough money to do what they want regardless of what the rest of society thinks. They have a very individualistic and somewhat renegade reputation.
Ysbel, yes you are snobbish () but understandibly so. People tend to forget that the original "Cinderella"-Story is about a young lady of the nobility who through intrigues by her stepmother lost her place in society and was relegated to the life of a menial, who through the help of the fairy godmother got a chance of showing herself in the milieu she was born into and who managed to snatch the prince, who then rescued her and restored her to the place she was born to.

It is definately not the story of a middle-class girl who through her character, achievments, decency and good sense makes the prince a jolly good and reliable partner.

So Catherine Middleton does not fit in with the fairy tale-model. But does she have to?

I don't subscribe to fairytales but I like basic, reliable, trustworthy marriages between people who fit in both their characters and aims. Be they be born princes/ses or paupers. Or something in-between.

Okay, I wonder myself now why I'm so interested in the Royals when I don't want them to serve me either Soap Operas or Fairytales. But then I think I simply like Catherine and William and if they are good for each other, they have my blessing. And if I long for soaps I turn on the TV and if I want to read a good story, I buy a book and hope for the best.
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  #1217  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:19 AM
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Sophie is of royal descent.
she may very well be but it is generations ago so she had no experience with the royalty prior to her relationship with edward....she is a commoner. so if making ones geneology makes them a suitable candidate for marriage then probably everyone on this board is eligible.
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  #1218  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:26 AM
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she may very well be but it is generations ago so she had no experience with the royalty prior to her relationship with edward....she is a commoner. so if making ones geneology makes them a suitable candidate for marriage then probably everyone on this board is eligible.
One should be careful with the word "commoner" as de jure only the peers of the realm and the souverain are not commoners: meaning that princes William and Harry, as they have not yet been elevated to the peerage are "commoners". All daughters and sons of peers are "commoners", even the heirs to the title with courtesy titles, Royal princesses or duke's daughters. All British citizens who are born as foreign royality are commoners as their foreign rank is not recognized in the UK without letters patents to the contrary. I think the title of "Princess Royal" that Anne enjoys elevated her from being a commoner as a non-peer to the peerage but I am not sure.

I think what you mean is something along the line of being a bourgeois.
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  #1219  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:35 AM
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Yeah, I know it sounds snobbish but there it is.

I don't know what Sophie's background is but if Kate's family's wealth comes from the dot.com explosion, then there is a big cultural divide
so what's wrong with cultural divide? while culture may be a tough hurdle it's not insurmountable. in fact even when the culture is the same it more often than not presents the hurdles that are insurmountable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
The dot.commers are less interested in staking a mark in society as much as they want to just make enough money to do what they want regardless of what the rest of society thinks. They have a very individualistic and somewhat renegade reputation.
you better tell that to bill gates....he's probably made more money from dot com than anyone. he's giving billions to the aids cause. ben way has donated millions to charity. larry page (google co founder) has invested in the development of environmentally friendly cars. sergey brin (google co founder) has given millions to parkinson's research. reed hastings (founder of PureSoftware) has given millions to the bettering american education.doug stein has given money to help train young people for tech jobs. i'd say they've all left a pretty mark on society. being a renegade isn't necessarily a bad thing...you may trade one loyalty for another but perhaps the renegade is trading his loyalty to all the other snobs for loyalty to the people that really need it. and since we don't know whether or not her parents support any particular charity then how can we say that they dont. she obviously does support at least one or two as she taken part in fundraisers.

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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
The British monarchy is all about upholding British society and is by nature very conservative. Kate herself looks very conservative but if her latest attempts at PR are any indication, she's got a very different idea of what makes good PR than what we've traditionally seen with girlfriends of the royals..
why do you think her PR has been a disaster? is being discreet, loyal, well behaved and poised bad PR? you could easily turn it around and say that even the ones that have the PR machine working for them have made disastorous mistakes with their reputation...harry with the german officer's uniform, charles' infidelity, phillips poor choices of words. the PR machine is no guarantee that the snobs will like you. it sounds like the snobs would like someone that bows to that small category rather than someone that appeals to the masses.
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  #1220  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:48 AM
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she may very well be but it is generations ago so she had no experience with the royalty prior to her relationship with edward....she is a commoner. so if making ones geneology makes them a suitable candidate for marriage then probably everyone on this board is eligible.
To clarify the point made by Duchess, Sophie had a working class background. From memory, I think her father was a retired tyre salesman, and her mother was a part time typist; so in effect, a very humble background. That clearly did not stop her from making a success of her marriage to Edward (who is rumoured to be one of the haughtiest of the royals!), her role as a junior royal, or as that of daughter-in-law of the Queen - or is that because of some far fetched royal connection?

I do find it quite difficult to get to grips with some of the arguments flying around on the forums today. The Middletons are a hard working bunch, who through sheer hard work, managed to make enough money to give their children a good, solid education and live very comfortably. Slowly and steadily they built up their business to where it is today. They may not be upper class in the traditional sense of the word, or old money and titled like the Spencers (and see where the last Spencer to marry into the royal family got to!), but not one of them has really put a foot wrong. Surely it is wrong to expect every ordinary family to be "interested in staking a mark in society" as the primary objective of their being!

Is their website classy? No, but it is adequate for what they do. Sure, they could spend a few thousand pounds and have it improved, but so what!

"The British monarchy is all about upholding British society and is by nature very conservative" is there anything Kate or the Middletons have doen that can be construed as inappropriate? Is Kate seen falling out of a dress or a night club / Has she been seen in an inapporpriate pose with anybody / Has she been briefing the Press / Is she using her royal connections for profit?

There sems to be a lot of criticism flying around of Kate's clumsy PR through the website. I don't think it is clumsy at all. This was the one opportunity she had of shedding the Waity-Katie tag, and she has used it well. So what if the website was update after a few days - they always are!!!
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