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  #821  
Old 08-19-2008, 04:37 PM
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I am glad you found it, yes it was that article that I read, it is that "flexibility to continue a relationship with a high profile man" which really jarred. To have a friendship, boyfriend, fiancé or whatever, you donīt have to available all the time, unless you are really trying to keep him in sight and not let anyone else even get near him. Most girls, continue their lives normally without abdicating their freedom because they have a boyfriend. For me these words made me think of what was talked about in another thread " A foxhunt" .... This is just my opinion.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:16 AM
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hmm, I can't say I completely followed everything said above about the class system, etc. but I do think I see both sides to the story.

from my perspective, for her to be William's wife, all she needs is to love him whole heartedly and unconditionally, but for her to be queen requires a certain amount of responsibility, which, I agree we probably will not observe in her until she finds herself in a situation of serious responsibility.

What I think is happening though, is the press shows her up to be someone who seems a little flighty, materialistic, etc. (although this may not be true), and therefore "not responsible enough" by some people's standards.

Also another thought that just occurred to me ... I have not heard anyone discuss William's possible role in this point ... There are some men out there who love to feel that they can look after their wife/girlfriend themselves, and don't want their wife / girlfriend to work to pay the bills. They want to know that their wife / girlfriend is home when they want her to be home, etc.
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  #823  
Old 08-21-2008, 12:54 AM
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That's certainly a possibility, Kat.

All I really hope for in this situation is that William marries a woman whom he loves and who will support him in the challenging role he'll take on soon (and the really challenging one way down the road). So far it seems that William loves Kate and that she is supportive of him. Those seem like good things to me, regardless of any other element of their lives that people want to speculate about.
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  #824  
Old 08-21-2008, 03:22 AM
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why does everyone think that just because they have been together for awhile that they will get married???

Everything i read about kate and william i think about Crown Prince Felipe of spain and Eva Sannum they were together for 5 years with no so called break up's, she was invited to the big royal wedding of crown prince haakon of Norway and Mette-Marit were she mingled with royalty from around the world alot more then what kate has. Yet after all the marriage talks and after 5years they broke up in late 2001 and then with only rumours Felipe was dating someone he came out and announced he was getting married in late 2002.

So just because William and Kate have been together so long doesnt mean it's true love and that she'll be the one, he may love her but he might not be "in love" with her. For all we know william could find someone else tomorrow and just know there the one instead instead of Kate. With all the talk that william is busy doing this that and the other, it seems to me that he is trying to put off any chance of marriage, if he truely loved kate then it wouldnt matter what army things he has to do, time would be found so he could marry her, after all they only need two weeks in a year to do it and have a honeymoon its not alot.
  #825  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:59 AM
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They'll be married before the end of 2010.
  #826  
Old 08-21-2008, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It seems to be those of the same or lower social class of Catherine that complain the loudest, IMO.
That's pretty much who I had in mind Skydragon. I really don't think it's the upper classes who are objecting to Kate. Many of the women from upper classes know the princes, have been around his family, and some of them want no part of his life -- which is mapped out for him beyond the grave. Of the very small subset of people who really care about their relationship at all, I suspect the loudest Kate haters are young girls who have to work for every dime, haven't gone to the same good schools as Kate, and don't have her parents' disposable income. They resent the idea that this girl is floating through life photographed attending royal weddings, polo, shopping, and vacationing with the Prince with the appearance of near certainty that she'll never have to work for a dime and will live in luxury. There appears to me anyway to be plenty of jealousy, snobbery, class hate -- and not from the well off. Life's way too short.

Someone I know who is 41 years old has been battling breast cancer, and it just spread to her brain. Went to see her in the hospital Monday and she looks like she's 81. She'll be in hospice by the end of this week. In the US usually hospice means up to 6 months left to live, keep you comfortable during that time. So in my mind, if Kate wants to shop for the rest of her days it's fine with me. Life is not promised to any of us so enjoy every minute. Kate's doing that. She doesn't have to work and she shouldn't be criticized for making a choice others WISH they had and WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE if THEY HAD THE SAME CHOICE. It's way too tentative and way too short to spend it lashing out at the Prince's girlfriend on the internet every day.

If you can't shop in the same places as Kate, how about a little window shopping and drinks with your girlfriends/co-workers after work one night this week instead of posting nasty remarks on the internet one night this week? {Of course I'm not speaking to you Skydragon, though if I knew you, we'd have a grand old time over a cup of tea.} {smile}
  #827  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise View Post
If you can't shop in the same places as Kate, how about a little window shopping and drinks with your girlfriends/co-workers after work one night this week instead of posting nasty remarks on the internet one night this week? {Of course I'm not speaking to you Skydragon, though if I knew you, we'd have a grand old time over a cup of tea.} {smile}
I agree wholeheartedly with your post Luv2Cruise.
  #828  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise View Post
That's pretty much who I had in mind Skydragon. I really don't think it's the upper classes who are objecting to Kate. Many of the women from upper classes know the princes, have been around his family, and some of them want no part of his life -- which is mapped out for him beyond the grave. Of the very small subset of people who really care about their relationship at all, I suspect the loudest Kate haters are young girls who have to work for every dime, haven't gone to the same good schools as Kate, and don't have her parents' disposable income. They resent the idea that this girl is floating through life photographed attending royal weddings, polo, shopping, and vacationing with the Prince with the appearance of near certainty that she'll never have to work for a dime and will live in luxury. There appears to me anyway to be plenty of jealousy, snobbery, class hate -- and not from the well off. Life's way too short.

Someone I know who is 41 years old has been battling breast cancer, and it just spread to her brain. Went to see her in the hospital Monday and she looks like she's 81. She'll be in hospice by the end of this week. In the US usually hospice means up to 6 months left to live, keep you comfortable during that time. So in my mind, if Kate wants to shop for the rest of her days it's fine with me. Life is not promised to any of us so enjoy every minute. Kate's doing that. She doesn't have to work and she shouldn't be criticized for making a choice others WISH they had and WOULD DEFINITELY MAKE if THEY HAD THE SAME CHOICE. It's way too tentative and way too short to spend it lashing out at the Prince's girlfriend on the internet every day.

If you can't shop in the same places as Kate, how about a little window shopping and drinks with your girlfriends/co-workers after work one night this week instead of posting nasty remarks on the internet one night this week? {Of course I'm not speaking to you Skydragon, though if I knew you, we'd have a grand old time over a cup of tea.} {smile}
Although I think that you have a lot of things right I canīt help but think that Kate would be much better off finding a super rich oilman than the future King of England. I think that she will find it is definitely not a wonderful shopping spree and for some reason I get the impression that that is exactly what she thinks.
About the lower classes being the nastiest, I really am not sure about that.
I thought it was the young girls not having the money to spend that loved the "Cinderella" side to the story. The upper class girls may not be interested in the "job" but they are definitely interested in the person who is going to take on the job and I am sure they would much prefer someone they can identify with and from experience, they can be very, how can I say it in a nice way, critical and ready to look down on any social solecism. Despite my not quite agreeing with you I hope that I could be included in that grand cup of tea.
  #829  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Although I think that you have a lot of things right I canīt help but think that Kate would be much better off finding a super rich oilman than the future King of England. I think that she will find it is definitely not a wonderful shopping spree and for some reason I get the impression that that is exactly what she thinks.
I somehow don't believe this. Having been around William for 6 years as a friend and a partner, I think Kate knows as much about the realities of royal life as can be possible for someone in her position... much more than Diana and Fergie were during their days. I don't think she's nearly as naive and idle-minded as tabloids picture her to be. Remember that William is also said to be a deep thinker and not someone who just delves himself into situations without prior preparation.
  #830  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Despite my not quite agreeing with you I hope that I could be included in that grand cup of tea.
Absolutely. First cup's on me!
  #831  
Old 08-23-2008, 02:47 AM
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I I think Kate knows as much about the realities of royal life as can be possible for someone in her position... much more than Diana and Fergie were during their days.
I think this is the problem. "As can be possible for someone in her position" she has NO position besides being Prince Williamīs special friend and a lot of people flattering her and making friends with her with the idea that - perhaps? - Sarah Ferguson mixed with the royal family from when she was a baby and so did Lady Diana, this young lady is reaping the fame that comes from being a close friend (perhaps later on something much more) of the heir to the throne. I donīt see anything about her dining constantly with the royal family, being included in all their outings, this is only natural and will only happen if she gets engaged to William. She is seeing the "play" side of his life, just as Wallis Windsor did..... An exception to mixing with her is Camilla and that can be for many reasons, she is fond of William but from what I have seen of her since she married she comes through as a very kind woman and she can probably see clearly what will happen "if" for some reason this romance comes to an end. Notice I said "if".
  #832  
Old 08-23-2008, 03:00 AM
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Why did Fergie mess up so horribly then if she was so well prepared mixing with royals ever since she was a baby? And why did Diana not know about Camilla and that she was entering an arranged marriage if she was such a natural part of royal life before the wedding?
I have the impression that Kate has much more insight than any of these women did before their wedding. Of course she cannot know what it is like to be royal until/unless she enters the firm herself. But when everyone here can have a fairly realistic idea what the royals do and how their working schedule looks etc. I see no reason why Kate Middleton couldn't and should live in la-la-land. She doesn't strike me like a naive little girl who believes in fairy tales.
  #833  
Old 08-23-2008, 03:16 AM
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I think one good thing about the greater openness of this relationship than of Charles and Diana's is that Kate is being publicly included in events where the other royals are present, so she's getting an idea of what's involved in the public side of royal life as well as the private side. Charles was apparently very determined that there'd be no photos of him and Diana together until they were engaged, so she never had the experience of attending events with him until it was too late to back out. Hopefully this experience will help Kate get an idea of what she'll be taking on if she does end up marrying William.
  #834  
Old 08-23-2008, 03:16 AM
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Why did Fergie mess up so horribly then if she was so well prepared mixing with royals ever since she was a baby? And why did Diana not know about Camilla and that she was entering an arranged marriage if she was such a natural part of royal life before the wedding?
I have the impression that Kate has much more insight than any of these women did before their wedding. Of course she cannot know what it is like to be royal until/unless she enters the firm herself. But when everyone here can have a fairly realistic idea what the royals do and how their working schedule looks etc. I see no reason why Kate Middleton couldn't and should live in la-la-land. She doesn't strike me like a naive little girl who believes in fairy tales.
Let's hope that Catherine is not so easily bored by the restricted life of a Royal as Fergie was - at least she can be sure that William really loves her when he pops the question (which he might have done already, but it's not official yet).
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  #835  
Old 08-23-2008, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Isana View Post
Why did Fergie mess up so horribly then if she was so well prepared mixing with royals ever since she was a baby? And why did Diana not know about Camilla and that she was entering an arranged marriage if she was such a natural part of royal life before the wedding?
I have the impression that Kate has much more insight than any of these women did before their wedding. Of course she cannot know what it is like to be royal until/unless she enters the firm herself. But when everyone here can have a fairly realistic idea what the royals do and how their working schedule looks etc. I see no reason why Kate Middleton couldn't and should live in la-la-land. She doesn't strike me like a naive little girl who believes in fairy tales.
Sarah Ferguson lived with her much older boyfriend for some years before marrying Andrew, what she wasnīt prepared to do was to spend long periods of time by herself with the children while Prince Andrew went off on his duties and golf playing, she said that herself. She was used to someone paying her a lot of attention. She knew the ins and outs of the royal family from babyhood but when she actually got into the royal routine she found it a "drag" and was very unrealistic about how much a husband, especially a royal husband" can spend time pandering to his wife......Lady Diana, whether anyone admits it or not, was more or less pushed into a very grand royal marriage, she, the descendant of royalty in a family that has always been close to the Sovereigns but never in the royal family would find, and her family find that her becoming the Queen of England was a very desirable position for her and her family....also she was a young dreamy girl who would believe a fairy tale quite easily, or at least it seems so. Of course she would have known of
Charlesīs former girlfriends but if you were Diana and looked in the mirror and also took into account your much younger age than Camilla, perhaps you would make the mistake of thinking his attachment to Camilla would just go away on the wings of love for his young beautiful wife..... Of course after her marriage she matured and found that her husband just didnīt have the patience or even the experience to deal with a slightly neurotic girl who needed to be the centre of attention. Also she must have been very surprised to find that his love for Camilla was more profound than she could ever have imagined. Remember her favourite books were written by her stepmotherīs mother - Barbara Cartland....
Whether Kate Middleton is as level headed as so many have said is still to be seen.
  #836  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:02 AM
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one thing i think a lot of people are missing is that it's also the private life of being a royal that is such a huge adjustment. it's expected that you will take part and LOVE weekends and extended stays in the country and the things that they spend time doing while they're in the county. the holidays that use to include a visit to your family dont' happen anymore as they're spent with the royals.
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  #837  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:18 AM
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one thing i think a lot of people are missing is that it's also the private life of being a royal that is such a huge adjustment. it's expected that you will take part and LOVE weekends and extended stays in the country and the things that they spend time doing while they're in the county. the holidays that use to include a visit to your family dont' happen anymore as they're spent with the royals.
I wonder if this will stay so once Camilla is Charles' queen. She has kept her own home where she meets with her children, their families and friends because she enjoys her own way to spend weekends. Plus Charles loves Highgrove - I wonder how he will react once he has Windsor at his disposal for the weekends as well. I guess we'll see a different form of spending Royal weekends with Charles and Camilla.

In a book I read that the Royals are notoriously one generation behind society - this would mean that Charles and Camilla will live the Jet Set-life of the 50ties and 60ties.... St. Tropez, we're coming....
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  #838  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:53 AM
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I think it is a bit like being on holiday. You may love somewhere like St Tropez and spend all your holidays there, then you decide you would like to retire there..... ah what a difference, holiday atmosphere and normal life. With the royals everything looks very attractive when you see the glamour side but when their life goes on normally perhaps it isnīt as attractive or at least what you expected it would be.
  #839  
Old 08-23-2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Isana View Post
Why did Fergie mess up so horribly then if she was so well prepared mixing with royals ever since she was a baby? And why did Diana not know about Camilla and that she was entering an arranged marriage if she was such a natural part of royal life before the wedding?
I have the impression that Kate has much more insight than any of these women did before their wedding. Of course she cannot know what it is like to be royal until/unless she enters the firm herself. But when everyone here can have a fairly realistic idea what the royals do and how their working schedule looks etc. I see no reason why Kate Middleton couldn't and should live in la-la-land. She doesn't strike me like a naive little girl who believes in fairy tales.
Diana was young and all she had known was the country life of an English aristocrat so of course, she thought she liked it. When she got older, she realized that she didn't like the rigidness of royal protocol and that she preferred the excitement of city life to the country but she could have hardly expected to know that when she was married.

Sarah was comfortable with the country life and she had the easygoing fun that the Royals enjoyed when they were totally in private but Sarah didn't realize that the Royals showed quite a different face and demeanour when they were on public duties. In hindsight, she should have known but I suspect that her own experience with the Royals colored her perception and that she didn't pay attention to the other side of the royals until it was too late.

I think a major adjustment of anyone who marries into the Royal Family is the attitude of some of the staff that the ones who marry into the family are less important and less worthy of devotion and service than the ones who are born into the family. I'm not sure of Prince Philip's early experiences but this was a common theme that Anthony Armstrong-Jones, Mark Phillips, Diana, and Sarah experienced. For example I have read that Margaret and Charles both had a very close group of retainers serving them when they married and the retainers had a comfortable routine of serving just one master (or mistress) and they quite resented having to take the wants and needs of a second person into consideration. It can make the newcomer seem like the odd man out of a very close unit.

I sincerely hope that this attitude has changed because it causes undue hardship for someone trying to fit into a new family (and a public one at that) for the first time. I haven't heard that Sophie or Camilla has experienced this so let's hope this old outdated custom has been put to pasture for good.
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  #840  
Old 08-23-2008, 10:16 AM
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Ysbel, shades of "Rebecca" and the terrible housekeeper. Also I believe that Edward VIIIīs staff fiercely resented Wallis Simpson, especially when she made them get up out of bed in the wee hours of the morning to make club sandwiches.
Unfortunately royal servants (perhaps not the present day ones) seemed to become more royal than their masters but then we have the example of Paul Burrell who seemed to get his role in the royal household a little mixed up and saw himself as far more than he actually was.
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