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  #2001  
Old 12-17-2008, 11:01 AM
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Hm, as this is not only about Britain obviously:

Helene Duchess in Bavaria should become the bride of Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria while her younger sister was meant for the emperor's younger brother, Karl. Instead Franz Joseph took the younger sister Elisabeth. Helene became princess of Thurn & Taxis while Karl married Margarethe of Saxony, a cousin of both himself and Elisabeth of Bavaria as their mothers were sisters.

Maria Elisabeth of Austria, daughter of empress Maria Theresia was engaged to be married to king Louis XV. of France. When she got sick with pox and became disfigured through the disease, the king refused her and asked instead for (or was offered) her sister Maria Antonia's hand in marriage for his grandson, then the dauphin (later king Louis XVI.)

Quite extreme the example of their sisters. First Maria Johanna Gabrielle became engaged to king Ferdinand I. of Naples as a child. As she died before the marriage, the next sister Maria Josepha was betrothed to the king. As she died on the day her wedding should have been celebrated, the next sister Maria Karolina became queen of Naples. It's not exactly that, but it shows how it worked -another Habsburg-example: their brother Joseph had been married to Isabelle of Parma and happily so, so he forced his sister Maria Amalia to marry his wife's brother duke Ferdinand of Parma: a very unhappy marriage.

I'm sure we can find some more examples if we tried hard enough, but these came immediately to mind.

In the Middle Ages/renaissance it was quite common for a child bride to be sent to the court of her future in-laws to be raised there. But if the groom died and the bride was of political interest, she was married by the next in line. Alternatively the bride could be married to a minor member of the family if her appeal changed over the years and her family wouldn't take her back. Margarethe of Austria, daughter of emperor Maximilian comes to mind. She was raised from the age of 3 at the French court to become the queen of king Charles VIII. but he took Anne de Bretagne instead. Margarethe was offered another French marriage but her father did not allow it. Only after two years of negociations was Margarethe allowed to leave France and became the wife of the heir to Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile, Juan. Within the year, Margarethe was a widow. Back in Germany, her father convinced her to become the wife of the duke of Savoy. When only aged 24 she was widowed again she decided to stay that way and did not contract another marriage.

Her niece Eleonore of Spain and Austria became the third wife of Manuel I of Portugal (after her aunts, the sisters Isabella and Maria of Spain = sisters of Catherine of Aragon and Juana the Mad had subsequently died) and after becoming Manuel's widow she married the king of France...

So what happened to Catherine of Aragon was quite common...
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  #2002  
Old 12-17-2008, 11:09 AM
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Yes, all very interesting and informative, but it has little to do with Wills 'n Kate.
It's also wasted in this thread as it will soon enough be swallowed up with more of the same "rumours and musings".
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  #2003  
Old 12-17-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk;868471... even a General Election I am sure will be put off until June 2010 (when they have to call one). Again whether there would be a Wedding in a General Election year is something they would have to weigh up.[/quote
I didn't realise that the next general election is set for 2010.
To my mind that means an engagement soon with a wedding next year or no engagement until after that general election so as not to have the election and the wedding run-up coinciding (remembering that the RF have to be seen as above politics and are very careful to avoid any sort of overlap).

That would mean no wedding in the summer of 2011 as I expect the Queen to want to have a major celebration for Philip's 90th birthday and 2012 is out with it being the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympics.

So I am suggesting a wedding at the earliest 2013, if not in the next year for both brothers.
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  #2004  
Old 12-17-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So I am suggesting a wedding at the earliest 2013, if not in the next year for both brothers.
Wow, I wonder if Kate is willing to wait that long.
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  #2005  
Old 12-17-2008, 07:33 PM
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I vote for next year then. I don't think that I can handle this for four more years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So I am suggesting a wedding at the earliest 2013, if not in the next year for both brothers.
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  #2006  
Old 12-17-2008, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I vote for next year then. I don't think that I can handle this for four more years!
I don't think I can either but I think it fits in with the military training and operations plan.

I get the distinct feeling based on what I don't know (other than my gut) that William will put off marriage as long as possible. With the example of his parents before him he might like to never marry at all so the longer he can put it off the better he likes it I suggest.
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  #2007  
Old 12-17-2008, 09:45 PM
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I Think we may hear something in 2009 regarding one of them.
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  #2008  
Old 12-17-2008, 10:36 PM
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It could be that the military extension was designed to delay wedding plans, but I also think it could be a sneaky way for the boys to retain some measure of privacy even if they do get married in the next year or two. It'd be harder to have paparazzi access to a young couple living on a military base, I'd wager. Plus, that way they'd have some time to enjoy being married before being subjected to the rigors of life as full-time royals.

But I have not even a clue when/if an engagement might happen. I think the outcome could happen a thousand ways -- and probably what we least expect when we least expect it.
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  #2009  
Old 12-17-2008, 10:55 PM
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The expectation though would be that once married the wives would be doing full time royal duties even if their husband isn't beside them, which is another reason why I don't see William marrying while in the military full-time. He will want to have some time doing full time duties himself before having to share the limelight with a wife (or maybe they both start together with neither really knowing all the pitfalls of royal duties). William's lack of experience as a full-time royal is another reason why I see marriage taking place later rather than sooner.
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  #2010  
Old 12-18-2008, 12:29 AM
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Wasn't that the problem with Sarah?,, being a newly minted royal bride while her prince was away on military duty?
Kate (if she is the one) would find herself in the eye of the storm, so to speak while William will be miles away? I do not see this happening. The royal family has already been down that path once already..
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  #2011  
Old 12-18-2008, 01:12 AM
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Exactly - I don't see William marrying until he has finished with his millitary career and has some experience of full-time royal duties under his belt. I think a marriage could be five or more years away for William (and I do see Kate waiting because I think she does love him and that they have worked out a timeline that will work for them).
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  #2012  
Old 12-18-2008, 01:18 AM
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Wouldn't Wills be based in the UK though whereas Andrew was away with the navy? If based in the UK why could Kate as finacé/wife not live on base with him?
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  #2013  
Old 12-18-2008, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isana View Post
Wouldn't Wills be based in the UK though whereas Andrew was away with the navy? If based in the UK why could Kate as finacé/wife not live on base with him?
It isn't a matter of her living on base with him but that she would be expected to do royal duties from the wedding whereas he would still be in the military.

It is the doing royal duties side of things that is why I think they may wait until after William has finished his military service.
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  #2014  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isana View Post
If based in the UK why could Kate as finacé/wife not live on base with him?
Because then she'll be derided as a layabout sitting around and sipping gin on the public dole.

If they get married, she will be expected to work tirelessly, stop having a personal life, give up anything resembling an opinion about anything (unless it's a vaguely compassionate opinion about saving something cute from harm), have several children as soon as biologically possible, raise them perfectly (like normal children, but not so normal that they act normal, that wouldn't do), and never appear to be tired, worried, or sick ever again, all while dressing beautifully and smiling for the rest of her life, which could be 70 or so years.

I can understand wanting to delay that happening for a little while.
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  #2015  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:20 AM
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It seems as though a royal marriage is not really a marriage it is a job, "expected to do royal duties" immediately after the wedding sounds ghastly. In the time of Henry VIII Queens only had one royal duty to do.
They probably have a "future Queen of England" application form, please fill in with complete honesty before handing in and don´t forget a full family tree signed and witnessed. In case this is difficult, a page or pages from Debrett´s will be sufficient for the present....
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  #2016  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:36 AM
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A royal marriage is also a job as the new partner can't continue with their pre-marriage job and must take on the job of their husband for life e.g. Camilla marries Charles at an age when most working women would be planning to retire but she has to take up a full-time job at that age. As for being an 'at home' Mum - no such chance - sorry still have to work and be a great Mum but the idea of taking a year or more's maternity leave isn't a possibility for a royal Mum.
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  #2017  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:23 AM
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True. Just look at the comments concerning Sophie's maternity leave and how long she stayed out of royal duty after the birth of James ...
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  #2018  
Old 12-18-2008, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ella Kay View Post
It could be that the military extension was designed to delay wedding plans, but I also think it could be a sneaky way for the boys to retain some measure of privacy even if they do get married in the next year or two. It'd be harder to have paparazzi access to a young couple living on a military base, I'd wager. Plus, that way they'd have some time to enjoy being married before being subjected to the rigors of life as full-time royals.
It could well be a chance for them to have something resembling a normal married life, whilst he is still in the RAF. There is no need to live on base though, they can rent a house or estate within easy daily traveling distance of the base, as very many Officers do. Not all Officers, junior or senior live on the bases.
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  #2019  
Old 12-18-2008, 12:48 PM
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Wills'n'Kate would never get away with living the quiet army life a a married couple. It would only add up to the workshy image people already have of them. When they get married they will be on full royal agenda. Full stop. Everything else would be a constant struggle with media etc that will only harm the monarchy and the royal image in the end, destroy what very hardworking family members such as the monarch couple, Charles or Anne have build up in years. We are talking about a future british monarch here, not about Harry or Zara Phillips. Wills & his future wife will be forced into service & duty by the public / media (for the wife this means getting pregnant) and in case they are together and in love, this might be the main reason why they haven't considered a committment yet. Wills might not be the brightest guy in town but he will have understood that part of his role.
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  #2020  
Old 12-18-2008, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Wills'n'Kate would never get away with living the quiet army life a a married couple. It would only add up to the workshy image people already have of them.
Just because you marry into the RAF or Army, doesn't mean you can't do anything with your life. Once married she might then be able to dedicate herself to charitable causes, which as Miss M, she is unable to do without criticism.
Quote:
--- snipped ---- Wills & his future wife will be forced into service & duty by the public / media (for the wife this means getting pregnant) and in case they are together and in love, this might be the main reason why they haven't considered a committment yet. Wills might not be the brightest guy in town but he will have understood that part of his role.
William would continue his work in the RAF with some Royal duties, she, even if pregnant could become involved in charitable works. Being pregnant is not an illness and does not neccessitate an end to life as she may know it.
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