Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[acdc1]

Assuming new letters patent are not issued changing the 1917 Letters Patent of George V (which is very likely once The Queen dies), Harry's children would automatically be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK once Charles became King.

If William succeeds instead, Harry's children would be Lord/Lady Windsor, along with any courtesy styles enjoyed as the children of a Duke, which may, in fact, be the case in the future even if they are legally entitled to be HRH.

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

 

[Elspeth]

Makes sense for Harry's wife, but William, as heir to the heir, should retain "prince" as his style imho. I think the smallfolk would demand it. After all, they wilfully ignored custom and insisted on calling Diana "Princess Diana". Does anyone think those same folks would be content to call her son's wife a "mere" Duchess?

I don't see why not, but if people want to call William's wife "Princess Whatshername" rather than "The Duchess of Wherever," that's fair enough and nobody's going to stop them. Doesn't mean that it has to be done officially. We don't have a tradition of granting titles to wives of princes in their own right, and the recent spate of royal divorces means that it's quite unlikely to start.

Just think of the subtext here; the two other royal duchesses are Camilla and Sarah. The style "duchess", imho, is "dirtied" as a style for a member of the royal family.

Sarah isn't a royal duchess; she lost her HRH when she divorced. I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it). However, I think you're going to run up against significant opposition from people who admire the personal and public lives of TRH the Duchesses of Gloucester and Kent, who have devoted decades of their lives to the service of their country.

The simpler way would be to grant a life peerage to Kate or whoever it's going to be prior to the wedding, and she can be Princess Katherine or whatever. (I like the name Katherine as a royal princess, because I admire Kathryn Swynford. Spoiled by Seton I suppose.) I know this has never been done before but there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Plus I think it would send a good signal to elevate Kate to a title in her own right, rather than stick yet another title on William and have her be a hatstand for his titles.

I think the reason for not doing it would be the situation after a divorce. As it stands now, since the royal style comes with the marriage, it goes away again if the marriage ends. Given the marital history of the Queen's children, divorce is no longer just a theoretical possibility. One of the (IMO thoroughly spurious, but whatever) excuses for not giving the Duchess of Windsor an HRH was the prospect of her flaunting her HRH around after divorcing the Duke (which, of course, George VI, Queen Elizabeth, and their advisors were quite sure would happen). Little more than half a century later, it became clear what would happen to a royal ex-wife - no HRH, and the title as a courtesy until she remarried.

 

[Henri M.]

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

Roughly the situation is that children and grandchildren of a Sovereign (in the male lineage) plus children born to the Heir Apparent's eldest son are Prince(ss) of the United Kingdom.

This means that children of Prince Harry will indeed be Lord or Lady until his father assumes the Kingship. Then they automatically will become a Prince or Princess.

The children of Prince William will be Prince or Princess right from the start.

 

[branchg]

Roughly the situation is that children and grandchildren of a Sovereign (in the male lineage) plus children born to the Heir Apparent's eldest son are Prince(ss) of the United Kingdom.

This means that children of Prince Harry will indeed be Lord or Lady until his father assumes the Kingship. Then they automatically will become a Prince or Princess.

The children of Prince William will be Prince or Princess right from the start.

Only William's eldest son is entitled, at present, to the style and title of HRH Prince of the UK. Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the rest of his children would be styled as the children of a Duke unitl Charles became King.

 

[branchg]

So, if Charles succeeds, Harry's kids will be HRH, but if William succeeds instead, they will be Lord/Lady X Windsor? Even if his kids are HRH, their kids will be Lord/Lady X Windsor, and in the female side Harry's great-grands will not be titled?

Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the children and grandchildren in the male-line of The Sovereign are entitled to be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK. Great-grandchildren in the male-line are styled as the children of a Duke, with the exception of the eldest grandson of The Prince of Wales, who is entitled to be HRH Prince of the UK. Female-line grandchildren of The Sovereign do not enjoy these rights and take their styles after their father.

At present, the children of The Queen all enjoy the title and style of Prince/Princess of the UK, as do her male-line grandchildren (William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, and Louise). At the request of Prince Edward, Louise is styled as the daughter of an Earl ("The Lady Louise Windsor"), but this has no bearing on her rights. Legally, she remains HRH Princess Louise of Wessex unless new Letters Patent are issued or a Royal Warrant is granted allowing her to formally reliniquish it.

If William or Harry marry while The Queen is alive, they are likely to be granted a dukedom the morning of the wedding. If they also have children while she still reigns, these great-grandchildren would all be styled as Lord/Lady Windsor as the children of a royal duke, with William's eldest son enjoying the title and rank of HRH Prince X.

 

[branchg]

I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it).

Katharine remains HRH as the wife of HRH The Duke of Kent. In 2002, she asked The Queen for permission to assume the style of "Katharine, Duchess of Kent" in order to pursue a private life focused on her music and teaching, rather than carrying out royal duties. The Queen granted her request and she prefers to be addressed as "Katharine Kent".

Officially, she is still listed in the Court Circular as HRH The Duchess of Kent, but essentially is living her own private life separate from The Duke.

 

[Henri M.]

Only William's eldest son is entitled, at present, to the style and title of HRH Prince of the UK. Under the 1917 Letters Patent, the rest of his children would be styled as the children of a Duke unitl Charles became King.

Yes. Thanks for finetuning my answer. You are correct indeed.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

Sarah isn't a royal duchess; she lost her HRH when she divorced. I'm not sure about the official status of the Duchess of Kent, who is reportedly not using her HRH (although I think she still has it).

One can regard the title HRH as a title in the job market, such as CEO, President, Vice-President. It's like either being promoted or demoted when one marries into royalty. It's also similar in the military when an officer or higher echelon NCO marries. The spouse also is promoted or demoted along with their military spouse and becomes higher in rank amongst the dependent spouses. If either prince should marry while in the military, their wives would surely have a lot of power from their spousal rank and royalty position.

 

[branchg]

HRH is simply a prefix of royal rank and denotes a style. You can be royal without any style or title, such as Peter Phillips is.

 

[Olishka]

I apologize if this has been covered here already, as I just hurriedly read through this thread, but what, exactly, would happen if William fell in love with and wished to marry a foreign born princess that wasn't in the direct line of succession for her own royal house, like Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg?

Any answer is much appreciated, as I am a smidgen confused!

 

[Furienna]

I think that would just be great. That was what all princes did for centuries anyway.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I apologize if this has been covered here already, as I just hurriedly read through this thread, but what, exactly, would happen if William fell in love with and wished to marry a foreign born princess that wasn't in the direct line of succession for her own royal house, like Princess Alexandra of Luxembourg?

Any answer is much appreciated, as I am a smidgen confused!

William would be able to marry her so long as The Queen gave her consent, or he got the consent of parliament after a year's notification. That is the terms of the RMA.

Under the Act of Settlement she can't be a Roman Catholic or he loses his claim to the throne.

These matters are really quite simple - the members of the RF have some extra conditions to meet in order to contract a legal marriage.

 

[Olishka]

William would be able to marry her so long as The Queen gave her consent, or he got the consent of parliament after a year's notification. That is the terms of the RMA.

Under the Act of Settlement she can't be a Roman Catholic or he loses his claim to the throne.

These matters are really quite simple - the members of the RF have some extra conditions to meet in order to contract a legal marriage.

So, in marrying William, would the princess sacrifice all current and future titles associated with her own royal house and the possibility of her children inheriting those titles? (In the example of William and Alexandra, could a daughter of theirs be both Princess So-And-So of Wales, and Princess So-And-So of Luxembourg, Nassau, and Parma, while remaining behind her father in the line of succession, even if this is not common practice?)

Sorry if this seems daft, I'm just curious.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So, in marrying William, would the princess sacrifice all current and future titles associated with her own royal house and the possibility of her children inheriting those titles? (In the example of William and Alexandra, could a daughter of theirs be both Princess So-And-So of Wales, and Princess So-And-So of Luxembourg, Nassau, and Parma, while remaining behind her father in the line of succession, even if this is not common practice?)

Sorry if this seems daft, I'm just curious.

I am not sure about the house laws of Luxembourg in this regard.

The closest thing I can think of is the fact that the King of Norway in 60something in line to the British throne through his descent from one of King Edward VII's daughters so it isn't impossible, but each country has their own rules with this regard.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well, I immediately think of Princess Alexandra of Denmark marrying the Prince of Wales and future King Edward VII. It is a good question whether she maintained her HRH and succession rights in Denmark. I think that she did, but don't know for sure.

 

[acdc1]

If Harry and Chelsy got married, would she would be HRH Princess Henry of Wales (without dukedom). Would they call her "Princess Chelsy" or would she be like Princess Michael, and be called by her actual correct title, Princess Henry?

 

[PR Princess]

If Victoria is ineligible to marry William, then why she and her siblings are in the line of succession to the British Throne! (Victoria is in 187.)

Line of succession to the British Throne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[acdc1]

I don't think they're ineligable at all, Madeleine could marry William, since she's not the heir to a throne. Victoria technically could marry him, but either she would have to give up her place in line to the Swedish throne, and Carl Philip would be Crown Prince again, or William would give up his place, and Harry would be second in line. But it would most likely be Victoria, I think. But this is a very slim chance of happening, almost impossible.

 

[Furienna]

That's an interesting list, Pr Princess. I can't believe how many foreign royals are in line for the Brittish thrown. Most of them are far down the list though.

It would be interesting, if William and Madeleine got married.

 

[PR Princess]

That's an interesting list, Pr Princess. I can't believe how many foreign royals are in line for the Brittish thrown. Most of them are far down the list though.

It would be interesting, if William and Madeleine got married.

Yes it is, just read the top of that least, which explains the conditions of the Act of Parliament 1701.

 

[Elspeth]

If Harry and Chelsy got married, would she would be HRH Princess Henry of Wales (without dukedom). Would they call her "Princess Chelsy" or would she be like Princess Michael, and be called by her actual correct title, Princess Henry?

She'd be HRH Princess Henry of Wales, but I'm sure that however incorrect it was, they'd call her Princess Chelsy. The Duchess of York never shook off the Fergie nickname, so I think these days it's going to be the case that whatever the tabloids decide to call her is the name that'll stick.

 

[Bia]

William would be able to marry her so long as The Queen gave her consent, or he got the consent of parliament after a year's notification. That is the terms of the RMA.

Under the Act of Settlement she can't be a Roman Catholic or he loses his claim to the throne.

These matters are really quite simple - the members of the RF have some extra conditions to meet in order to contract a legal marriage.

Hi, I have a question: In this act, have the possibility for converge? The Roman catlhotic for him religion?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Hi, I have a question: In this act, have the possibility for converge? The Roman catlhotic for him religion?

To be able to claim the British throne the person can't be either a Roman Catholic themselves or, on their wedding day, marry a Roman Catholic e.g. Prince Michael of Kent lost his right to claim the British throne because his wife was a Roman Catholic on the day they married (and still is). Other members of the Kent family have lost their rights to the throne through converting to the Roman Catholic form of Christianity. The Duke of Kent didn't lose his position because on his wedding day his wife was an Anglican and she converted many years later.

If William, Harry or anyone else for that matter, who has a legitimate claim to the throne, wants to marry a Roman Catholic, or converts to Roman Catholicism, they lose their rights under the Act of Settlement. This will most likely affect Peter Philips shortly as all reports indicate that his fiancee is a Roman Catholic. Unless she converts before the wedding OR the legislation is changed then Peter will lose any chance of becoming the King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the rest of the countries that have the British monarch as their monarch.

It is really very simple - the British monarch can't be a Roman Catholic nor can they marry a Roman Catholic.

 

[yvr girl]

If William married a princess...

Well, I immediately think of Princess Alexandra of Denmark marrying the Prince of Wales and future King Edward VII. It is a good question whether she maintained her HRH and succession rights in Denmark. I think that she did, but don't know for sure.

It would depend on the country. I think Denmark for example, you need to live in Denmark to be in line for the throne. Queen Anne Marie of Greece gave up her place in line to the throne when she became queen of Greece.

It's also important to note that women don't generally pass on their titles to their children. Princess Anne's children don't have titles, but they are in line for the throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It would depend on the country. I think Denmark for example, you need to live in Denmark to be in line for the throne. Queen Anne Marie of Greece gave up her place in line to the throne when she became queen of Greece.

It's also important to note that women don't generally pass on their titles to their children. Princess Anne's children don't have titles, but they are in line for the throne.

The big difference you must consider with the Danish situation is two fold but related:

until 1953 no female could inherit the throne so Alexandra wouldn't have passed on succession rights as she had none herself

and

the 1953 act also limits the rights to the Danish throne to the descendents of Alexandra's eldest brother or his eldest son (I can't remember which) - thus excluding any descendents from her younger two brothers, including the Greek males, who some people claim didn't have a claim and others say they did based on what exactly William did at the time of his accession to the Greek throne - I believe that he placed himself and his descendents below his younger brother while others say that he gave up all rights for himself and his descendents.


Anne, didn't pass on titles as females in Britain, certainly since the 1917 LPs haven't been able to do so. Those LPs restrict the passing of HRH to the male line grandsons, and the eldest son of the eldest son of the POW. As Anne doesn't have an inheritable title such as Duchess of XXXX in her own right she can't pass on a title. Had she, and Mark, agreed to him having a title then one could have passed on to their children.

In Britain only males inherit titles, except in special circumstances, such as the Mountbatten LPs which allowed for female inheritance. Neither Andrew nor Edward can, currently, pass on their titles as they both have only daughters. If Edward's next child is a son then that son will inherit his title of Earl of Wessex (and probably Duke of Edinburgh) in due time.

 

[norwegianne]

The Danish throne is to be inherited among the descendants of King Christian X (Christian IX's son's Frederik VIII's oldest son) and his wife Queen Alexandrine.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Danish throne is to be inherited among the descendants of King Christian X (Christian IX's son's Frederik VIII's oldest son) and his wife Queen Alexandrine.

Thank you - so it is Queen Alexandra's nephew's descendents.

 

[PR Princess]

To be able to claim the British throne the person can't be either a Roman Catholic themselves or, on their wedding day, marry a Roman Catholic.

This is true, but if one of them were attracted to a Roman Catholic girl, she can convert into whatever religion, so they can stay in the line of succession.

 

[windsorbrides1]

Prince William will not be created a Duke, as Royal Dukedoms only go to Princes who are members of the royal family that will not inherit the throne. Prince Andrew is Duke of York, Prince Edward will be Duke of Edinburgh when his father dies.

Prince Charles will more than likely give William one of the lesser titles the Prince of Wales uses until he wholly becomes Prince of Wales. I would think any of the titles except Duke of Cornwall as that is a Royal Dukedom - and the Prince of Wales income earning land.

The Prince of Wales holds the following titles: Prince Of Wales, Duke Of Cornwall, Duke Of Rothsay, Count Of Chester, Count of Carick, Baron Of Renfrew, Great Steward Of Scotland, Lord Of the Isles

My guess is that Charles will name William Duke of Rothsay.

 

[windsorbrides1]

It is customary that a son like Harry that is third in line for the throne (as Prince Andrew was at one time) to be given a Royal Dukedom. My guess is that Prince Harry will become Duke Of Lancaster - which is the only royal dukedom that is available at present.

I am guessing that the Queen can transfer any title she wants, and will, with Prince Charles approval, probably transfer the title Duke of Rothsay onto William until he fully becomes Prince Of Wales.