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  #1861  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:13 AM
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^ I was saying in regards to the criticism Princesses Eugenia and Beatrice get from the media . So Harry having seen everything up close and personal will know that when the Cambridge children grow up , he and his family will be sidelined coz that s how the monarchy works .

Or maybe Charles would want all his grandchildren have HRH status as he himself has only 2 sons ??. Let's wait and watch but Harry seems to want a simpler life overall .
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  #1862  
Old 10-24-2017, 06:30 PM
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Oh wait - so children of Dukes when their grandparent is monarch automatically become Prince/ss?

Ohhhh that's why Eugenie and Beatrice are princesses. So did Edward and Sophie purposefully ask that their kids NOT be prince/princess? I understand leaving off the HRH, but aren't they technically still Prince X, Lord of Essex? Or were they denied Prince/ss altogether, as well as HRH?

I still think since Harry/wife will be full time senior royals, their kids will still be HRH and Prince/ss of whatever dukedom Harry gets.
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  #1863  
Old 10-24-2017, 06:46 PM
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Yes, Edward and Sophie asked the Queen to style their children like the children of a Earl. So no HRH Prince/Princess. It’s not all grandchildren of the sovereign but male line grandchildren so Bea and Eugenie are HRH Princesses but Peter and Zara are just Peter and Zara.
  #1864  
Old 10-24-2017, 06:47 PM
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The male-line grandchildren of the monarch - under the 1917 rules (letters patent) written by George V are all HRH unless something else happens. It isn't the children of Dukes per se. If Harry is given no title at all his children will still be HRH Prince/Princess when Charles becomes King as male-line grandchildren of the monarch.

In 1999 Edward and Sophie asked that their children be styled as the children of an Earl and the Queen agreed.

There has been much discussion over the subsequent years about whether they are still technically HRH Prince/Princess or not.

I wrote to BP and asked them if The Queen's Will having been made known was enough to say they weren't now or would be in the future HRH Prince/Princess and was told by BP that that interpretation is correct. The Queen's Will is enough to deprive them of that styling so no they aren't technically HRH Prince/Princess now but simply Lady Louise and Viscount Severn.
  #1865  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:19 AM
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I can see if Harry wanted to request if The Queen can make his kids HRH or maybe The Queen do it herself. Who knows we have to wait and see.
  #1866  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
In 1999 Edward and Sophie asked that their children be styled as the children of an Earl and the Queen agreed.

There has been much discussion over the subsequent years about whether they are still technically HRH Prince/Princess or not.

I wrote to BP and asked them if The Queen's Will having been made known was enough to say they weren't now or would be in the future HRH Prince/Princess and was told by BP that that interpretation is correct. The Queen's Will is enough to deprive them of that styling so no they aren't technically HRH Prince/Princess now but simply Lady Louise and Viscount Severn.
But it has pretty much been settled than Edward will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title when his father passes away. What will be his children's titles then?
  #1867  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:04 AM
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Edward won't 'inherit' the Edinburgh title.

He may be granted the title once both his mother and father have passed away.

When Philip dies the Edinburgh title automatically passes to Charles. If Philip predeceases The Queen then Charles will add all of Philip's titles to his own current list and they won't be used probably for a while. When the Queen dies the title will then merge with the Crown and be available to regrant to Edward which was what was announced in 1999.

There is a scenario by which the title doesn't become available for instance which is Charles, William and George all predecease the Queen meaning Charlotte becomes Queen and Harry, or the new baby if a boy, inherits Edinburgh directly (the new baby, if a boy, in that scenario would also inherit Cambridge and be the Duke of Edinburgh and Cambridge).

Assuming things pan out as stated in 1999 and Charles regrants the Edinburgh title to Edward then Louise would remain Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor but James would be known as Earl of Wessex. It would only mean the title passing into non-royal hands one generation earlier then say the Gloucester or Kent titles whose next holders are all non-royals and the girls are Lady xxxxx Windsor while the heirs are Earls of Ulster and St Andrew's respectively with Lord Nicholas as the younger son of the Duke of Kent.
  #1868  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:54 PM
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I don't know how you keep this all straight - I have a headache trying to understand it fully. Just when I think I get it - I see that I don't, lol.

Thank you for being so patient with our questions though. I really appreciate it.
  #1869  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
I don't know how you keep this all straight - I have a headache trying to understand it fully. Just when I think I get it - I see that I don't, lol.

Thank you for being so patient with our questions though. I really appreciate it.
We invented all of this just to keep Americans on their toes!
  #1870  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
We invented all of this just to keep Americans on their toes!
Great answer!
  #1871  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:54 PM
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I just wish Duke of Clarence wasn't off limits. Oh, the perennially superstitious! I think it would be such a nice title (for Harry). I like Albany too because of Leopold. Leopold was awesome.

Sussex is so boring, but I'm sure it will be Sussex, because I never get what I want from these British royals!
  #1872  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatianacressida View Post
I just wish Duke of Clarence wasn't off limits. Oh, the perennially superstitious! I think it would be such a nice title (for Harry). I like Albany too because of Leopold. Leopold was awesome.

Sussex is so boring, but I'm sure it will be Sussex, because I never get what I want from these British royals!
This is kind of ridiculous and stupid but for some reason, when I think of Clarence, I think of Clarence the Clown or his predecessor Clarabelle the Clown who was a biggie on the antiquated "Howdy Doody Show" here in the US. I do much rather prefer Sussex.
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  #1873  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Edward won't 'inherit' the Edinburgh title.

He may be granted the title once both his mother and father have passed away.

When Philip dies the Edinburgh title automatically passes to Charles. If Philip predeceases The Queen then Charles will add all of Philip's titles to his own current list and they won't be used probably for a while. When the Queen dies the title will then merge with the Crown and be available to regrant to Edward which was what was announced in 1999.

There is a scenario by which the title doesn't become available for instance which is Charles, William and George all predecease the Queen meaning Charlotte becomes Queen and Harry, or the new baby if a boy, inherits Edinburgh directly (the new baby, if a boy, in that scenario would also inherit Cambridge and be the Duke of Edinburgh and Cambridge).

Assuming things pan out as stated in 1999 and Charles regrants the Edinburgh title to Edward then Louise would remain Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor but James would be known as Earl of Wessex. It would only mean the title passing into non-royal hands one generation earlier then say the Gloucester or Kent titles whose next holders are all non-royals and the girls are Lady xxxxx Windsor while the heirs are Earls of Ulster and St Andrew's respectively with Lord Nicholas as the younger son of the Duke of Kent.
Right... I forgot all the details about how the Edinburgh title would be passed on to Edward. Then again, it is kind of complicated to a beginner. But I guess that I also got an answer to my question: Lady Louise will remain Lady Louise, and James will become the new Earl of Wessex. Which is kind of what I suspected all along...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatianacressida View Post
I just wish Duke of Clarence wasn't off limits. Oh, the perennially superstitious! I think it would be such a nice title (for Harry). I like Albany too because of Leopold. Leopold was awesome.

Sussex is so boring, but I'm sure it will be Sussex, because I never get what I want from these British royals!
Lepold still has descendants, who kind of have the right to claim the title of Duke of Albany. So that's off limits.

I kind of like the Sussex title though. And it has not been used since 1843, so it deserves a come-back.
  #1874  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Right... I forgot all the details about how the Edinburgh title would be passed on to Edward. Then again, it is kind of complicated to a beginner. But I guess that I also got an answer to my question: Lady Louise will remain Lady Louise, and James will become the new Earl of Wessex. Which is kind of what I suspected all along...
Unless the new king issues LP (not sure making his will known would be sufficient in this case) stating that they will be henceforth be known as HRH prince(ss) Louise/James of Edinburgh (as male line grandchildren of the monarch) of course
  #1875  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Right... I forgot all the details about how the Edinburgh title would be passed on to Edward. Then again, it is kind of complicated to a beginner. But I guess that I also got an answer to my question: Lady Louise will remain Lady Louise, and James will become the new Earl of Wessex. Which is kind of what I suspected all along...
And... also if things go as specified, upon the death of his father, James will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title and be the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh.

I liked learning that. One quote that says it all is when Philip remarked (well.. I'll use remarked) “I am nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his own children.” I think a lot of the reasons for doing this with Edward was to actually give Philip a way to pass on to his child his title. Edward also is very much carrying on Philip's work with the Duke of Edinburgh Award so it does rather fit nicely.

With Harry, there isn't this problem really. He'll probably be created a duke upon his marriage and that will be something that he will pass on to his son. Or, who knows, by the time that day comes, things will have also become gender blind when it comes to hereditary titles like it has with the line of succession.
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  #1876  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:44 PM
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Is there any point where the title of Albany will revert back or no longer be an option for those descendants? It's been some time now since it's been used.


LaRae
  #1877  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Is there any point where the title of Albany will revert back or no longer be an option for those descendants? It's been some time now since it's been used.


LaRae
When there are no male-line decendents left (not likely, as there are currently 14; all cousins or second/third cousins to king Carl Gustaf of Sweden) or probably if all potential claimants renounce their rights to the title for themselves and their off-spring?!

However, we should probably discuss this in the general British titles topic.
  #1878  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:51 PM
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Kinda surprised they haven't renounced them already since there is obviously no interest in holding the title.


LaRae
  #1879  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Is there any point where the title of Albany will revert back or no longer be an option for those descendants? It's been some time now since it's been used.


LaRae
13 male heirs and counting. Most of whom are young enough they may still have more children.

Prince Leopold's had one son Charles Edward. Charles was the one who was deprived of his title due to his German involvement. Charles had five children, his second child and eldest daughter being Sibylla, mother of Carl Gustaf. His eldest son Johann Leopold gave up his claim to Sax-Coburg when he made an unequal marriage. But he didn't lose his claim to Albany, as morganatic marriage don't exist in the UK. It is his grandson Hubertus who is the current 'titular duke of albany' though never claimed it. Hubertus has a son who is 24, and 2 younger brothers who are 1-3 in line. Hubertus' uncle Peter is 4th, Peter's sons are 5th and 6th and his grandson 7th. Since Charles Edward's second son Hubertus died before him, his youngest child Friedrich became head of the house of Sax-Coburg. Friedrich is the father of Andreas, the current head of the family. Andreas is 8th, his son Hubertus 9th, his grandson Philip 10th, and his younger son Alexander is 11. Andreas had a younger brother Adrian. Adrian died in 2011, but his two sons are 12th and 13th.

Other then Peter who is 78 and Andreas 72, the majority are young enough to add. Many are still very young.

I don't see the line dying out any time soon. Shame the family doesn't just all reject their claim. No one has bothered to try claiming it in decades. But seems unlikely to happen.
  #1880  
Old 10-27-2017, 12:39 AM
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I moved my last comment to the appropriate topic (Questions about British Styles and Titles - Page 160 - The Royal Forums), let's not sidetrack Harry's title thread with a title that he certainly will not get.
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