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  #1521  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:37 AM
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^ I think MaiaMia in her post a little way back was thinking of John Sheffield who became the first Duke of Buckingham of that creation, and the man for whom Buckingham House was built (which later became BP, of course). And therefore there was a Royal connection in that way.
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  #1522  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:49 AM
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Duke of Dover also sounds nice
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  #1523  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:27 AM
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Is there currently a Duke of Richmond or Cumberland? What about Albany?



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  #1524  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:39 AM
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There is a Duke of Richmond now (title starts from illegitimate son of Charles II). The Gordon-Lennox family are the title holders.

Cumberland and Albany are stuck in German title limbo. The ended up with Germans through the Hanover line and then were frozen during the Great War. They are not extinct because there are still potential heirs who could try to reclaim the title.
  #1525  
Old 04-30-2017, 10:30 AM
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Ah gotcha. Hadn't thought about the limbo issue.


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  #1526  
Old 04-30-2017, 11:52 AM
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Well, history or not, I still think they should go with Duke of Buckingham.

Clarence also has a negative history, and it would be confusing with Cornwall, Cambridge, and Clarence at the same time.

And Duke of Sussex sounds awkward, somehow.
  #1527  
Old 04-30-2017, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
I was wondering about the title, Duke of Buckingham. Apparently, it hasn't been used since 1687:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_and_Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Buckingham

Why couldn't that title be renewed for Harry? Buckingham Palace takes its name from John Sheffield, first Duke of Buckingham and Normandy (1648-1721). The palace was first a house built for Sheffield. In 1762, King George III purchased the Sheffield house for his wife, Queen Charlotte of Mecklenberg-Strelitz (she is said to have Portugese-related African heritage). After Queen Charlotte was given the house by King George III, it became known as The Queen's House. King George IV ordered the house to be converted into a palace during the 1820s.

But I guess since Buckingham is the well known name of the palace, it would never be considered for use as a dukedom again.
.
There was an earlier "Harry Duke of Buckingham" during the Wars of the Roses - Henry Stafford, the 2nd Duke of that creation. He was a royal cousin (descended from Thomas of Woodstock, Duke of Gloucester and Earl of Buckingham, fifth son of Edward III with a Beaufort mother) and married to Catherine Woodville (sister of Edward IV's lady) as a child. He was apparently playing both sides against the middle by at first appearing to support Richard III, then Henry Tudor, all the while probably hoping to become King himself. During what has been named Buckingham's Rebellion he was abandoned by his Tudor allies, captured, and executed as a traitor in November 1483. Some believe that if Edward IV's sons were killed, it far more likely to have been by Buckingham's orders as he was left in charge of London with the title of Lord High Constable while Richard was on his coronation progress - and he was the one who started the rumors of them being dead by Richard's hand, who called Buckingham "the most untrue creature living." His son Edward, the 3rd Duke, was executed by Henry VIII for the treason of "listening to prophesies of the King's death" although the real reason was having Plantangenet blood.

So the title of Duke of Buckingham has lots and lots of baggage dating back over 500 years.
  #1528  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:53 PM
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Sussex, Cumberland, and Buckingham titles would be good

Those titles would be good for Harry if he wants it. Harry would want a Dukedom than an Earldom because he may want children. If he has a son, that male would be the future Duke of ______ when Harry dies. I still do believe that all grandchildren, children and siblings of the monarch should have HRHs.


His Royal Highness The Duke of Buckingham would be a good title. His son would be a prince of Buckingham.
  #1529  
Old 04-30-2017, 08:56 PM
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If Harry is given the Sussex title on his marriage, one of his subsidiary titles would be Earl of Inverness. However the Inverness Earldom is already taken by his uncle Andrew. Harry would also be Baron Arklow. Would Andrew give up his Earldom to his nephew?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Sussex
  #1530  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:04 PM
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I still do believe that all grandchildren, children and siblings of the monarch should have HRHs.
I agree completely.
  #1531  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:05 PM
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Why should he?

The Inverness Earldom has been associated with the last couple of York dukedom's e.g. both George V and George VI were also the Earls of Inverness.

'Giving up' a title isn't all that easy anyway. I think it would require an Act of Parliament.

We should also remember that if Andrew were to remarry and have a son that son would be the heir to York and that son's son would have the courtesy title, eventually of Earl of Inverness.
  #1532  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
If Harry is given the Sussex title on his marriage, one of his subsidiary titles would be Earl of Inverness. However the Inverness Earldom is already taken by his uncle Andrew. Harry would also be Baron Arklow. Would Andrew give up his Earldom to his nephew?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Sussex
He wouldn't have to. They aren't creating the old Duke of Sussex, this is a new creation. It can have different subsidiary titles. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. There is no set titles that have to go together

Take Cambridge. The last two dukes were Earl of Tipperary and Baron Culloden. Tipperary is out as it is Republic of Ireland.and culloden is the subsidiary of the Duke of Gloucester. Instead William was given Strathearn and Carrickfergus. Previous had various including Earl and marquis of Cambridge as subsidiary, Earl of Milford haven and so on.

Philip is Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. The previous Duke was Earl of ulster and Kent. Edward when he is Duke is likely to use his current titles as subsidiary.
  #1533  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
If Harry is given the Sussex title on his marriage, one of his subsidiary titles would be Earl of Inverness. However the Inverness Earldom is already taken by his uncle Andrew. Harry would also be Baron Arklow. Would Andrew give up his Earldom to his nephew?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Sussex


One of the subsidiary titles held by the last Duke of Sussex was Earl of Inverness. The titles do not go hand in hand - outside of those for the monarch and heir, no titles are firm.

Look at Cambridge:

The first creation was for one James Stuart, who was also Earl of Cambridge and Baron of Dauntsey. The second creation was for one Edgar Stuart and had the same titles - which makes sense, given as James had died and Edgar was his brother.

The third creation was for the future George II who was also Marquess of Cambridge, Earl of Milford Haven, Viscount Northallerton, and Baron Tewkesbury.

The fourth creation was for Prince Adolphus, who was also Earl of Tipperary and Baron Culloden.

The fifth creation is the current, for Prince William, who holds none of the subsidiary titles previously associated with the Dukedom - instead he is Earl Strathearn and Baron Carrickfergus.
  #1534  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:50 PM
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Baron Culloden, of course, is now one of the Duke of Gloucester's titles - Duke of Gloucester, Earl of Ulster and Baron Culloden.

That is clear evidence of the fact that the combinations for the titles aren't set in stone.
  #1535  
Old 05-01-2017, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Well, history or not, I still think they should go with Duke of Buckingham.

Clarence also has a negative history, and it would be confusing with Cornwall, Cambridge, and Clarence at the same time.

And Duke of Sussex sounds awkward, somehow.

I'm sure someone has already answered that, but couldn't he be the Duke of Connaught ?

It would suit Meghan to be the Duchess of Connaught given that Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, was once the Governor General of Canada, and Meghan is almost a Canadian now !
  #1536  
Old 05-01-2017, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I'm sure someone has already answered that, but couldn't he be the Duke of Connaught ?

It would suit Meghan to be the Duchess of Connaught given that Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, was once the Governor General of Canada, and Meghan is almost a Canadian now !
No. Connaught is in Ireland.
  #1537  
Old 05-01-2017, 07:06 AM
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No. Connaught is in Ireland.
So what ? There are probably many British peers who have titles with an Irish territorial designation. The Duke of Wellington for example is also the Baron Mornington.

And, on a different note, the heir to the Dutch throne is the Prince of Orange, although that location is now part of the French Republic.
  #1538  
Old 05-01-2017, 07:57 AM
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So what ? There are probably many British peers who have titles with an Irish territorial designation. The Duke of Wellington for example is also the Baron Mornington.

And, on a different note, the heir to the Dutch throne is the Prince of Orange, although that location is now part of the French Republic.
Ireland has a completely different relationship with the RF than the Orange association with France.

Most Irish titles are Earls/Barons, they're not the "main" title like Duke of Connaught.

From Wiki - Since the exit of the Irish Free State from the United Kingdom in 1922, titles related to locations in the Free State (and later the Republic of Ireland) have not been awarded (though Prince Edward, Prince of Wales—in 1936 briefly King Edward VIII—was made a Knight of the Order of St Patrick). However, territorial titles relating to Northern Ireland have continued to be awarded.
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  #1539  
Old 05-01-2017, 08:21 AM
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For me, creating subsidiary titles for areas in the Republic of Ireland would rank right up there with using areas in the original 13 colonies of the United States. It just doesn't make sense to me at all.
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  #1540  
Old 05-01-2017, 08:50 AM
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The peers with Irish titles not NI ones aren't new creations. The Duke of Wellington title is the original creation so the secondary titles wouldn't change. It was fine in 1800 whenever to use Irish places but it isn't now in 2017 to make a British Prince's title in a place that isn't part of the U.K. anymore. Plus Meghan isn't a virtual Canadian.
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