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  #1441  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Harry isn't getting 2 Dukedoms. He is only going to get the one when he marries.
Then what happens to the Dukedom of York once Andrew dies? Harry is the second son of the future king.
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  #1442  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:54 PM
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Most likely it will go dormant until the need for it arises again. Then again, Will and Kate may have another male child which would put that child in the lineup for the Duke of York title.

The Duke of York title has been, for the most part, bestowed on the second son of the monarch but it isn't a stipulation. Charles may even give a son of Harry's the title on his marriage.

We'll just have to wait and see.
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  #1443  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Most likely it will go dormant until the need for it arises again. Then again, Will and Kate may have another male child which would put that child in the lineup for the Duke of York title.

The Duke of York title has been, for the most part, bestowed on the second son of the monarch but it isn't a stipulation. Charles may even give a son of Harry's the title on his marriage.

We'll just have to wait and see.
Is that possible, since the Dukedom of York is for the second son of the monarch?
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  #1444  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:00 PM
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Its been usually bestowed on the second son but it isn't s stipulation of who can hold the Duke of York title.
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  #1445  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:04 PM
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No reason why it cant be dormant - entirely at the discretion of the Monarch.

I agree with Osipi, Harry wont get 2 titles.

Prince Andrew is probably good for another 30 years so Williams children - perhaps even a Duchess of York in her own right
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  #1446  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
No reason why it cant be dormant - entirely at the discretion of the Monarch.

I agree with Osipi, Harry wont get 2 titles.

Prince Andrew is probably good for another 30 years so Williams children - perhaps even a Duchess of York in her own right
It would be nice if William or Harry named a future daughter, Alberta, in honor of her grandfather's grandfather, Albert (George VI) and grand-uncle (Andrew-Albert is one of his Christian names along with Christian!!)

That future Duchess of York could potentially be Her Royal Highness Alberta, Duchess of York in her own right!!!
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  #1447  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
It would be nice if William or Harry named a future daughter, Alberta, in honor of her grandfather's grandfather, Albert (George VI) and grand-uncle (Andrew-Albert is one of his Christian names along with Christian!!)

That future Duchess of York could potentially be Her Royal Highness Alberta, Duchess of York in her own right!!!
I was thinking of Charlotte
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  #1448  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I was thinking of Charlotte
Oh. It's possible Charlotte or a second daughter could be Duchess of York, while Charlotte could be Princess Royal as the eldest daughter.
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  #1449  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
It would be nice if William or Harry named a future daughter, Alberta, in honor of her grandfather's grandfather, Albert (George VI) and grand-uncle (Andrew-Albert is one of his Christian names along with Christian!!)



That future Duchess of York could potentially be Her Royal Highness Alberta, Duchess of York in her own right!!!


I hope not, Alberta is, in my opinion, a dreadful name. Albert as a second name for a boy is honor enough...
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  #1450  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
As the way it looks now, him and his wife (Meghan Markle?) could still be Prince and Princess Henry of Wales.

They could be Duke and Duchess of Sussex, Duke and Duchess of Albany.

However, when Andrew, Duke of York dies, and if he dies while Charles is king, it is possible Charles could award Harry with the Duke of York title, since he is the second son of the British monarch.

However, if William and Kate have a second son, and Harry is still alive, while William is king, their second son could have a different title in form of an duke or an earl.

Very interesting.
This isn't how titles work... Harry could be given a hundred different titles, and unless the terms of inheritance were written differently (not likely), the heir to all of them would be Harry's eldest son, or at best his eldest child.

That said, Harry wouldn't be likely to receive two titles, at least not in the form of two Dukedoms. He might receive an Earldom to start with the expectation of getting a Dukedom later, but that's unlikely too - not if the Dukedom is that of York. I believe it's not typical for a title to be recreated if the children of the last Duke are still alive and using the courtesy titles related to the title, although I could be wrong on that account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
Then what happens to the Dukedom of York once Andrew dies? Harry is the second son of the future king.
The title becomes extinct. This happens with Dukedoms all the time... or not all the time, but with some frequency. It's pure fluke that the title Duke of York has remained within the Royal family for as long as it has - more than once it should have gone out of the family, if not for other circumstances.

There is no hard and fast rule regarding any Royal Dukedom other than those associated with the heir apparent. Their are customs associated with the Duke of York, but not actual rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
It would be nice if William or Harry named a future daughter, Alberta, in honor of her grandfather's grandfather, Albert (George VI) and grand-uncle (Andrew-Albert is one of his Christian names along with Christian!!)

That future Duchess of York could potentially be Her Royal Highness Alberta, Duchess of York in her own right!!!
Harry's children aren't likely to be given any Dukedoms of their own. It's not customary for the grandchildren of the monarch to receive titles unless they're in the direct line, so to speak.

Look at the Kents - Prince Edward inherited his title from his father, but Prince Michael received no title of his own. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester only has his title because his elder brother, Prince William, died without issue.

Harry will likely receive a title when he marries as he's the son of the heir apparent. Beatrice, Eugenie, and Louise (or their husbands) are not likely to receive any titles as they are the children of the younger children of the monarch (James will not likely receive any titles upon marriage, but in time will inherit his father's titles). Similar will happen with the next generation; George will likely receive titles, if he's not the heir apparent before he weds, as likely will either Charlotte or her husband (unless they decline them), but Harry's children will likely not receive any titles other than what they inherit from Harry.
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  #1451  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:00 PM
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As Queen Victoria didn't give her second son Alfred the title of Duke of York it was dormant from the time of the second son of George III's death in 1827 (he died without a male heir) to when the future George V received it in 1892. It's not known why Affie didn't get York, it may have been because his parents wanted a huge distance between the disreputable sons of George III and themselves.

I can't see Princess Charlotte getting another title on marriage, unless she marries a peer of course. Times have changed since Tony Armstrong Jones was given an earldom.
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  #1452  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:36 PM
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One thing to remember with the Duke of York title is the remainder - heirs male - so if Andrew remarried a young woman who then had a son that son would inherit the York title.

The Queen could also issue new LPs amending the existing ones to allow for Beatrice to inherit (and I wouldn't be surprised if Andrew pushes her to do that if either of the girls marry during her lifetime).
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  #1453  
Old 04-18-2017, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
This isn't how titles work... Harry could be given a hundred different titles, and unless the terms of inheritance were written differently (not likely), the heir to all of them would be Harry's eldest son, or at best his eldest child.

That said, Harry wouldn't be likely to receive two titles, at least not in the form of two Dukedoms. He might receive an Earldom to start with the expectation of getting a Dukedom later, but that's unlikely too - not if the Dukedom is that of York. I believe it's not typical for a title to be recreated if the children of the last Duke are still alive and using the courtesy titles related to the title, although I could be wrong on that account.



The title becomes extinct. This happens with Dukedoms all the time... or not all the time, but with some frequency. It's pure fluke that the title Duke of York has remained within the Royal family for as long as it has - more than once it should have gone out of the family, if not for other circumstances.

There is no hard and fast rule regarding any Royal Dukedom other than those associated with the heir apparent. Their are customs associated with the Duke of York, but not actual rules.



Harry's children aren't likely to be given any Dukedoms of their own. It's not customary for the grandchildren of the monarch to receive titles unless they're in the direct line, so to speak.

Look at the Kents - Prince Edward inherited his title from his father, but Prince Michael received no title of his own. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester only has his title because his elder brother, Prince William, died without issue.

Harry will likely receive a title when he marries as he's the son of the heir apparent. Beatrice, Eugenie, and Louise (or their husbands) are not likely to receive any titles as they are the children of the younger children of the monarch (James will not likely receive any titles upon marriage, but in time will inherit his father's titles). Similar will happen with the next generation; George will likely receive titles, if he's not the heir apparent before he weds, as likely will either Charlotte or her husband (unless they decline them), but Harry's children will likely not receive any titles other than what they inherit from Harry.
Agree with the exception of Charlotte and her potential future husband. Charlotte will likely one day be given the title of Princess Royal, but I don't believe she'll receive any title as Anne has not. Nor is it likely for any future husband. As many have stated, times have changed. Anne already set the precedent for not having her husband or exhusband receive titles. I don't think it'll change back.
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  #1454  
Old 04-18-2017, 01:47 AM
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Anne set no precedence. Anne wpuld not have been given a title, and her husband use it. Mark would have been made Earl of..... Like Anthony, so when they divorced mark would have remained ear of.....

What we are talking here is totally different. It is Charlotte being made a duchess in her own right. This is relatively new grounds, not completely. If they are going to take the step of rewarding peerages to princesses in their own right, and hopefully also allowing daughters to inherit such, the title of said husbands needs also be addressed.

Charlottes husband will be different then Mark, Tim and Anthony. In a slimmed down monarchy, her husband will likely be called on to do some duties. I am not saying full time royal, but when George is king, at least part time. Even if not a HRH, but a HE Duke of.....(what ever charlottes title is) or even pulling a Camilla and using a lesser title. Say Charlotte is HRH Princess Royal, Duchess of Clarence, Countess Xyz. Her husband HE Earl of Xyz, his using the secondary title as a sign she holds the peerage not him.

Time will tell. It's basically new ground however handled.
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  #1455  
Old 04-18-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Anne set no precedence. Anne wpuld not have been given a title, and her husband use it. Mark would have been made Earl of..... Like Anthony, so when they divorced mark would have remained ear of.....

What we are talking here is totally different. It is Charlotte being made a duchess in her own right. This is relatively new grounds, not completely. If they are going to take the step of rewarding peerages to princesses in their own right, and hopefully also allowing daughters to inherit such, the title of said husbands needs also be addressed.

Charlottes husband will be different then Mark, Tim and Anthony. In a slimmed down monarchy, her husband will likely be called on to do some duties. I am not saying full time royal, but when George is king, at least part time. Even if not a HRH, but a HE Duke of.....(what ever charlottes title is) or even pulling a Camilla and using a lesser title. Say Charlotte is HRH Princess Royal, Duchess of Clarence, Countess Xyz. Her husband HE Earl of Xyz, his using the secondary title as a sign she holds the peerage not him.

Time will tell. It's basically new ground however handled.
Slimmed down monarchy or not, the precedent is that it's simply not done. And by the trend right now, it's always to pull back more past than give more than in the past. I don't think they'll ever allow daughters to inherit the father's title. It might to given to the daughter in her own right on a case by case basis after the father passes, but I don't see this becoming an automatic thing.
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  #1456  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:37 AM
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Slimmed down monarchy or not, the precedent is that it's simply not done. And by the trend right now, it's always to pull back more past than give more than in the past. I don't think they'll ever allow daughters to inherit the father's title. It might to given to the daughter in her own right on a case by case basis after the father passes, but I don't see this becoming an automatic thing.


Given the trend for equality among the genders, I could see Charlotte being given a title in her own right upon her marriage - Duchess of Wherever.

I highly doubt it will be a title shared by her husband in some way unless that changes among the nobility first - I believe there's a push for some sort of change among peers in same-sex-marriages right now, and if that happens I could see it spilling over into change for how the husbands of women who hold titles in their own right, but I'm not betting on it.
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  #1457  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Given the trend for equality among the genders, I could see Charlotte being given a title in her own right upon her marriage - Duchess of Wherever.

I highly doubt it will be a title shared by her husband in some way unless that changes among the nobility first - I believe there's a push for some sort of change among peers in same-sex-marriages right now, and if that happens I could see it spilling over into change for how the husbands of women who hold titles in their own right, but I'm not betting on it.
I think the gender equality has more to do with daughters being able to inherit same ways sons can, and by birth order rather than gender. The suggestion that Charlotte be given a title of her own but not allowing the husband to carry the title as well in itself is gender inequality. Same way that a Queen consort is Queen, but consort to Queen Regent is not King.
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  #1458  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:51 AM
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Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

Charlotte doesn't need to be created a Duchess. She can be named Princess Royal. Even if she is made a Duchess in her own right. Her husband doesn't become a Duke unless he is one on his own. Countess of Mountbatten's husband isn't an Earl because of his marriage. He just the Baron that he inherited.

Tony did some royals tours with Margaret. Anne did stuff with Mark and now Tim royal wise. If Charlotte's husband is need to do royal work full time. William can do what was done with Philip make him a HRH Prince with a Dukedom of his own.
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  #1459  
Old 04-18-2017, 09:55 AM
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Queen Regent
I think you must mean 'Queen Regnant' ?
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  #1460  
Old 04-18-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Charlotte doesn't need to be created a Duchess. She can be named Princess Royal. Even if she is made a Duchess in her own right. Her husband doesn't become a Duke unless he is one on his own. Countess of Mountbatten's husband isn't an Earl because of his marriage. He just the Baron that he inherited.

Tony did some royals tours with Margaret. Anne did stuff with Mark and now Tim royal wise. If Charlotte's husband is need to do royal work full time. William can do what was done with Philip make him a HRH Prince with a Dukedom of his own.
Based on precedent, I doubt Charlotte's husband will be made a prince. That would happen only if Charlotte were the heiress to the throne, which she probably won't be.

The discussion is speculative though as none of us can know for sure how Charles and William will change the title and style conventions within the Royal Family.
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