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  #1361  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:01 PM
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Someone refresh my memory....it's probably been said here before I just can't remember!

Edinburgh. Is there a reason this title couldn't be held for Harry or is it just assumed it will go to Edward because he's Phillip's son?


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  #1362  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:18 PM
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It was announced when Edward was made Earl of Wessex at the time of his wedding that he would become Duke of E at Phillip's death.
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  #1363  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:40 PM
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It has been announced that Edward will be created Duke of Edinburgh after the death of both his parents - assuming it is available and hasn't been inherited by someone who doesn't become the King. e.g. if Charles, William and George were all to predecease either Philip or The Queen then the crown would pass to Charlotte but Edinburgh would pass to Harry by right of inheritance.

Assuming that Charles inherits the Crown from his mother and Edinburgh from his father the intention is for him to create the Edinburgh title for Edward in keeping with the announcement made in 1999.

Of course Charles could go back on that announcement and give Edinburgh to whomever he likes but as the idea is in the public domain already it would seem a bit churlish of Charles to act in that way towards his little brother - knowing that it is his parents' wish.

The title can't be recreated until it has merged with the Crown and that can't happen while either Philip or The Queen is alive. When Philip dies - if he dies before the Queen - then Charles automatically adds all of Philip's titles to his own as Charles is the heir to both his mother's crown and his father's dukedom.

The line of succession to the Edinburgh title is - Charles, William, George, Harry, Andrew, Edward, James.
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  #1364  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Daenerys Targaryen View Post
It was announced when Edward was made Earl of Wessex at the time of his wedding that he would become Duke of E at Phillip's death.
I rarely cross post and I do not want to drag this off topic. But there is that niggling announcement around her wedding about Camilla. People do go on and on about that in the Forums.

Sometimes I wonder if one of the "you can call me Joe" royals (this is how I think of the family members whose parents, at the birth of the kids said some version of, "forget the styles and titles") will grow up and want the Viscount (or whatever) back. Do they speak out? Granted, they have manners way beyond the normal human and so, might not ever bring it up, but still...
Let's not go off topic, but I just think these announcements always look less wise in the light of day a few years on.
Never say never, you know?
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  #1365  
Old 03-07-2017, 09:50 PM
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Ok so if I have this right: After the passing of Phillip (assuming he dies prior to the Queen) the title reverts to the Crown. By rights it belongs to Charles and after the death of the Queen then Charles can bestow the title to whomever he so chooses. The Queen can't do this though (right?) since they aren't 'hers' per se. Could Charles pass it along to someone else before he becomes King?

It sounds like Edward will be so titled. Now are his children going to be upgraded in this case since Edward will go from a Earl to a Duke or will the kids titles remain the same?


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  #1366  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Ok so if I have this right: After the passing of Phillip (assuming he dies prior to the Queen) the title reverts to the Crown. By rights it belongs to Charles and after the death of the Queen then Charles can bestow the title to whomever he so chooses. The Queen can't do this though (right?) since they aren't 'hers' per se. Could Charles pass it along to someone else before he becomes King?

It sounds like Edward will be so titled. Now are his children going to be upgraded in this case since Edward will go from a Earl to a Duke or will the kids titles remain the same?


LaRae
Assuming Philip dies prior to HMQ, his titles go to his heir, Prince Charles.

When HMQ dies and Charles becomes King, all his titles revert to the Crown.
Therefore D of Edinburgh title is free to be bestowed on Edward.
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  #1367  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:17 PM
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Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

Philip dies. The Dukedom automatically go to Charles as Philip's heir. It's still the creation from 1947. The Queen dies, Charles becomes King. The Dukedom now is merged with the Crown and can be given out. The intent is for Charles to make Edward the Duke of Edinburgh. This would be a new creation for Edward.

The Dukedom merges with the Crown as long as Charles, William or George becomes King. If somehow Charlotte becomes Queen before the title merges with the crown then Harry would inherit Philip's dukedom.

Edward and Sophie are very involved with the DoE Awards Scheme that's a telling indication that's pending a catastrophic event Edward will become DoE.

A title can only be recreated if there are no heirs or it merges with the Crown. There are plenty of heirs to Philip's title. So it has to merge to be recreated.
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  #1368  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Ok so if I have this right: After the passing of Phillip (assuming he dies prior to the Queen) the title reverts to the Crown. By rights it belongs to Charles and after the death of the Queen then Charles can bestow the title to whomever he so chooses. The Queen can't do this though (right?) since they aren't 'hers' per se. Could Charles pass it along to someone else before he becomes King?

It sounds like Edward will be so titled. Now are his children going to be upgraded in this case since Edward will go from a Earl to a Duke or will the kids titles remain the same?


LaRae
Not quite.

Assuming the DoE passes during the Queen's lifetime, then his titles pass on to his heir, Charles, who would (among many other titles) be the 2nd Duke of Edinburgh.

When Charles becomes King all his titles will revert to the crown - some will automatically be recreated for William (i.e. the title Duke of Cornwall is automatically created when the conditions are met). It's then that Charles can recreate the title Duke of Edinburgh for whoever he wants to create it for - it's been said that will be Edward, although Charles is under no obligations to do so.

If Charles, as Duke of Edinburgh, dies without becoming King then the title will pass on to William, then George. If somehow Charles, William, and George were to pass before the Queen then Charlotte would be the Queen's heir, but Harry would inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title (and thus it wouldn't be merging with the crown in order to be recreated for Edward). If, however, something were to also happen to Harry (even if he simply never had sons), the title would in time go to Edward and James.

If the Queen predeceased the DoE, then Charles would become King and the title Duke of Edinburgh would automatically merge with the crown on the DoE's passing, unless something happened to cause Charlotte to be on the throne when the DoE passes, in which case Harry would become DoE.
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  #1369  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:51 PM
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Andrew is still between Harry and Edward for inheriting the Dukedom. The odds of Charles, William, George all dying before the Queen and Philip are very small.
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  #1370  
Old 03-07-2017, 11:18 PM
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The line of succession to the Edinburgh title is:

Charles, William, George, Harry, Andrew, Edward and then James.

Only merging the title with the Crown can change this order as it would break it.

If it didn't merge with the Crown i.e. Charlotte became Queen and Harry inherited Edinburgh then it would pass either to Harry's son/s in birth order or to Andrew on Harry passing and then to Edward's line as Andrew has no sons.

As it is likely to merge with the Crown - either in the person of Charles or William - both of whom would have been included in any discussions about the future disposition of this title in 1999 - then it is likely to be recreated for Edward as per the already announced request of HM and Philip. It is highly unlikely that either Charles or William would choose to so publicly dishonour the known wishes of Elizabeth II or her consort.

We must remember that the original LPs from 1947 said 'heirs male of the body' would inherit this title which means that the title passes automatically to Charles. If Charles is King then it ceases to exist and is available for re-grant. If Charles is still Prince of Wales he would add all three of Philip's titles to his already bulging list and be Prince of Wales, Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth, Baron Greenwich et. al. It would be interesting to see if he then used Duke of Edinburgh when in Edinburgh or stuck with Duke of Rothesay as the heir to the throne in Scotland.
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  #1371  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Andrew is still between Harry and Edward for inheriting the Dukedom. The odds of Charles, William, George all dying before the Queen and Philip are very small.
If something were to happen to cause Andrew to inherit the Dukedom, then it's only a matter of time before Edward or James inherited it; the title can only be inherited by the male line and Andrew has no sons.

If Harry ended up inheriting and didn't have sons, then in time it would go to Edward or James (depending on who dies first), as the title can only be inherited in the male line, Andrew doesn't have sons, and in the scenario Harry never has sons.
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  #1372  
Old 03-08-2017, 01:43 AM
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Considering we are discussing the death of Philips son, grandson and great grandson all before him, this topic seems overly morbid.

Philip dies. Charles is Duke of Edinburgh until he becomes king. Then recreated fir Edward. Plain and simple. No need to imagine morbid amounts of death.

Be nice if the Brits took a page from the Spanish, at least with new creations, and made them equal inheritance. Considering the throne is. But sadly I doubt they will ever be do forward thinking.
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  #1373  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:13 AM
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Really folks if you are squeamish about discussing how titles pass down move along to another thread already. No one wishes anyone dead.


Interesting...so if the Queen passes prior to Phillip he looses his DoE status? Hadn't thought of that.


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  #1374  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:34 AM
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Really folks if you are squeamish about discussing how titles pass down move along to another thread already. No one wishes anyone dead.


Interesting...so if the Queen passes prior to Phillip he looses his DoE status? Hadn't thought of that.


LaRae


No he doesn't. The DoE title is Philip's. He has it until he dies. It doesn't matter if the Queen is alive or dead.
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  #1375  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:36 AM
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Phillip will be The Duke of Edinburgh until he dies. Even if The Queen predeceases him.

It's just if Charles is already King, the dukedom will merge with the Crown after his father passes rather than Charles inheriting it.
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  #1376  
Old 03-08-2017, 08:45 AM
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So, when Charles becomes king, William is automatically Duke of Cornwall?

Then, is he still Duke of Cambridge? Which title does he use? Or neither, because he can then be made Prince of Wales?

(I admit I find titles very confusing).
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  #1377  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:41 AM
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Yes, William is automatically the Duke of Cornwall when Charles becomes King. William keeps his Cambridge title. So for a point in time William is Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. Charles has to name William Prince of Wales. Once William is PoW that will be the primary title. George, Charlotte and future kids would be of Wales then.

However, the Duke of Cornwall title would be used when carrying out engagements on Duchy stuff like if William was opening a senior center in Cornwall. Also in Scotland, he would use the Duke of Rothesay title when carrying out engagements in Scotland like his father does now.

Harry's future kids titles are pretty straight forward - just look at the titles of Andrew and Edward's kids. That's the 2 options for Harry's kids
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  #1378  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:42 AM
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Ah ok must of misread something above about the DoE title.




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  #1379  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Considering we are discussing the death of Philips son, grandson and great grandson all before him, this topic seems overly morbid.



Philip dies. Charles is Duke of Edinburgh until he becomes king. Then recreated fir Edward. Plain and simple. No need to imagine morbid amounts of death.



Be nice if the Brits took a page from the Spanish, at least with new creations, and made them equal inheritance. Considering the throne is. But sadly I doubt they will ever be do forward thinking.


On the issue of the Brits taking a Spanish approach... I don't know how the Spanish do their titles, but I could see the Brits in time adopting equal inheritance for future titles.

I doubt we'll see the Queen address it, and I think if Harry marries in her lifetime his titles will have the same male inheritance rules. But the DoE title for Edward... I could see that being created with an allowance for female inheritance; I think full equal inheritance will only happen if Edward, Sophie, and Charles feel that Louise is more likely to have future involvement with the DoE Award than James.

I don't think Andrew's titles will be addressed to allow Beatrice to inherit in any way. But I do think that by the time George and Charlotte are of age and situation to receive titles, the issue will be addressed. I also think that if Harry only has daughters, the issue might be addressed in his lifetime, depending on their role and public opinion.

The fact is though, that other than Harry and Edward (via the DoE title), no one in Britain is likely to get a new hereditary title in the next 20 years or so.
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  #1380  
Old 03-08-2017, 11:27 AM
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There will be a gap because the next generation needs to grow up or get born. There was a large gap between the creation of Edward's titles and William's.

If everyone starts being able to inherit a title. All of the historical past titles will run out because you are going to give out more than you get back. Basically the only ones you get back is where a direct heir gets a title as a grandchild like William did. Other than that you need a title holder to have no children or one child that then have no children. Once the title makes it 3 or 4 generations in its probably not going to go extinct especially if both genders can inherit.
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