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  #1241  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:29 AM
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I dot think that anyone dislikes them. There's no harm In them.. they are just vapid..
Problaby Charles, who wants to slim the monarchy down, wants to keep them from getting onto doing royal duties because that would mean that it would saddle him and William with their upkeep. And I doubt if they'd be very reliable as "duty doing princesses". Charles is problaby aware that the Fergie baggage is still clinging to them as well and that they're not likely to be very popular with the public and it is sure as Shooting that if they were doing royal work, Ferige would be chattering to the papers about it and trying to get herself noticed because of that.

Yes I'd say that in time to come, Harry's children will be needed to do the royal job, even with the slimming down, and so of course they will have the royal title and be public figures.
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  #1242  
Old 09-17-2016, 05:54 AM
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Imagine that the Queen and Duke are no more and that Charles is King at the moment, he still has a lot of assistance at his disposal from the core royal family:

HM The Queen (69)
HRH The Prince of Wales (34)
HRH The Princess of Wales (34)
HRH The Prince Henry (32)
HRH The future Princess Henry
HRH The Princess Royal (66)
Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence (61)
HRH The Duke of York (56)
HRH The Duke of Edinburgh (52)
HRH The Duchess of Edinburgh (51)
---------------------------------------------
HRH Princess Beatrice of York
HRH Princess Eugenie of York
HRH Prince James of Edinburgh
HRH Princess Louise of Edinburgh

Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie, Prince James (then Earl of Wessex) and Princess Louise (then Lady Louise of Edinburgh) are not really needed, I think. That takes not away that the children of Prince Henry are grandsons of a Sovereign and entitled to be a Prince (Princess) of the United Kingdom indeed.
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  #1243  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:23 AM
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Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Edward's children were born at a bit of a low time for the RF when it was recovering from the scandals of the 1990s, and so He was given the title of Earl rather than a dukedom and as for his children, although entitled to be Prince etc, it was decided that they would not use the titles.
Harry's children will be higher up in the hierarchy and I'm sure he would wish them ot have titles of Prince and Princess and to use them. If they DONT want to, they still have the titles...

No Edward chose an earldom as he doesn't want his children to face the scrutiny William, Henry, Beatrice and Eugenia have received. He will eventually become The Duke of Edinburgh.

I don't think Henry will want his children to be HRH's after what he and William went through as children and Henry has the opportunity to avoid that. Any daughters will be Lady and of Henry receives an Earldom with a secondary title his son will get that.


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Im

Problaby Charles, who wants to slim the monarchy down, wants to keep them from getting onto doing royal duties because that would mean that it would saddle him and William with their upkeep. And I doubt if they'd be very reliable as "duty doing princesses".

There is no actually evidence that suggests Charles has ever wanted a slimmed down monarchy. It's PR crap that's been pushed to drive wedges between him and his brothers.
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  #1244  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:43 AM
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Edward didn't choose an earldom. His children will get about the same amount of scrutiny whether they are Lady Louise or Princess Louise ie not very much, because of his being far down in the succession and not that important or wel-liked.
Harry's children will be the same. As his children, and as the Kings grandchildren, they will get meida attention no matter what their titles are and I'm damn sure he would nto want them to be merely Lady this or that..and he is nto goig to want to be an earl.. Status matters to royals
As for the slimmed down monarchy I hope it is true. I'm sure that Charles has enogh sense to realise that the bigger family all doing duties is not sustainable any more and that it just means that the more people of the family who are in the public eye doing duties, the more chances there are for people to make mistakes and get noticed for the wrong reasons. Most European monarchies dont have the whole family doing duties.
Cant see why it should cause trouble with his brothers since according to many posters here, royals don't want higher titles for themselves or their children. So why would they want to be on the duty roster?
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  #1245  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Edward didn't choose an earldom.
He quite evidently did choose an earldom else he currently would have a dukedom.


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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I'm damn sure he would nto want them to be merely Lady this or that..and he is nto goig to want to be an earl.. Status matters to royals
I'm sorry but do you know who you're talking about? Henry has actively avoided everything he possibly can to do with his "royal status". This is the gentleman that went back to Afghanistan because he wanted not to be treated differently. That is guy who doesn't care about royal status. It's so evident every time he does speak.

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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
As for the slimmed down monarchy I hope it is true. I'm sure that Charles has enogh sense to realise that the bigger family all doing duties is not sustainable any more and that it just means that the more people of the family who are in the public eye doing duties, the more chances there are for people to make mistakes and get noticed for the wrong reasons.
It is sustainable because it's currently happening, the more royals to do engagements the more the public actually gets to see them. Take a look at the brilliant work Iluvbertie and Cepe do to track royal engagements and see how many get done. Then divide that out between how many 4 or 6 royals? They'd be exhausted. Which then leads to "mistakes" god knows what they are.

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Most European monarchies dont have the whole family doing duties.
Cant see why it should cause trouble with his brothers since according to many posters here, royals don't want higher titles for themselves or their children. So why would they want to be on the duty roster?

Most European monarchies don't do half the engagements the BRF do. I don't know what you're referring to in the last sentence.
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  #1246  
Old 09-17-2016, 07:56 AM
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Edward was given the title of Earl because the intention is that he will one day be created Duke of Edinburgh - if the title is able to be recreated and isn't somehow inherited by someone else e.g. Charles, William and George all predecease Philip. In that case Harry inherits Edinburgh but Charlotte becomes Queen.

His children aren't styled as Prince/ss not because he is an Earl but because that was what the public would stand at the time and Edward agreed.

Eugenie has had two jobs since leaving university and went straight from one to the other.

Beatrice has had more troubles holding a job but has done more charity work than Eugenie but without any recognition from the BRF.

In 2012 there were reports that Beatrice wanted to do more to support The Queen during the Jubilee year but was knocked back by both Charles and William as neither want her to see her future as anything more than a Princess Michael type - at State Visits and Trooping the Colour but not the Alexandra and Anne style of princess.

During the last two years I have spent a bit of time in the UK and attended royal events. The one comment that came through loud and clear from the royalists I spoke to was that the York girls are despised at best. When told that they do charity work I was laughed down as the press don't cover that. Look at the comments on the story about Beatrice doing the 9/11 charity event that she has done most years since 2001. She was criticised over and over again.

It is also wrong to lump them together when talking about their work - Eugenie has been employed since leaving uni while Beatrice does charity work and changes her jobs every six months or so with three to four months off in between.

They are perfect examples of why the children of the 2nd child need to be told very early 'get real jobs'. It is what Anne and Margaret's children were told because they aren't royal while Beatrice and Eugenie are. Edward decided that his children wouldn't be royal and so will be raised to get real jobs and not be expected to do royal work at all.

Given the fact that Beatrice is only 2 years short of 30 and has no real job behind her it is highly doubtful that she would ever do royal duties. The time for that was when she left uni - to get her doing things then and not let her do nothing for a decade or more.

When Charles is King he will have his aging wife, sister, brothers and sister-in-law. (Tim doesn't do royal duties solo and doesn't accompany Anne all that often). He will also have his middle-aged sons and daughter-in-law and maybe two of them. There are no working proposed working royals in their 20s or teens so a gap of 20 years - an entire generation will be without a royal to relate to. Even Harry is now 32 - approaching middle age.
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  #1247  
Old 09-17-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post


I'm sorry but do you know who you're talking about? Henry has actively avoided everything he possibly can to do with his "royal status". This is the gentleman that went back to Afghanistan because he wanted not to be treated differently. That is guy who doesn't care about royal status. It's so evident every time he does speak.
Sorry, but how could Harry retire from the Army at the age of 32 and possibly do nothing else in life if it were not for the "royal status" you claim he doesn't care about ?

I submit that, if Harry doesn't want " to be treated differently", he should get a job and live a bourgeois life like everybody else.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Edward was given the title of Earl because the intention is that he will one day be created Duke of Edinburgh - if the title is able to be recreated and isn't somehow inherited by someone else e.g. Charles, William and George all predecease Philip. In that case Harry inherits Edinburgh but Charlotte becomes Queen.
Once Charles becomes king, assuming he had already inherited the title from Philip, the title will merge with the Crown and then it can be created again for Edward. I guess that is the plan.
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  #1248  
Old 09-17-2016, 08:57 AM
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I've always said Harry most likely doesn't want his children to be HRH. There is no need for it.

Zara and Peter, James and Louise have the best of both worlds. All the family perks without the high level of public scrutiny (for the most part)

So if and when Harry has kids, they can live relatively normal lives but still be included in all the family functions.

Harry knows all about the fishbowl. He knows what's ahead for George and Charlotte. He won't want that for his children.
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  #1249  
Old 09-17-2016, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
That's true. There is a reason why many people don't like them or don't even recognize them...

Edward is not the 2:nd son. Andrew is the one in a similar position as Harry. Andrew was always meant to be "Duke of York". Harry too but they can't strip Andrew of his titles and Andrew is expected to live for another 30-40 years so Harry must get other titles.

I think we can be sure of one thing. Sooner or later, a King William is going to need help from his own generation. And a possible King George and his sister Princess Charlotte can't be left almost completely alone. They are going to need help from their own generation too and would certainly be happy if there is royal cousins there to help them.

Wouldn't the Duke of York (after Andrew passes) be reserved for a second son of William?



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  #1250  
Old 09-17-2016, 10:30 AM
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I've always said Harry most likely doesn't want his children to be HRH. There is no need for it.

Zara and Peter, James and Louise have the best of both worlds. All the family perks without the high level of public scrutiny (for the most part)

So if and when Harry has kids, they can live relatively normal lives but still be included in all the family functions.

Harry knows all about the fishbowl. He knows what's ahead for George and Charlotte. He won't want that for his children.

IMO it's not going to matter one iota if Harry's kids were not titled or that he doesn't want them to be in the fishbowl. They will always be of interest and followed because of who HE is. Because of who his mother was.

Mark my words..people will be every bit as interested in Harry's children as they are Williams. Not giving them a title isn't going to lower their level of public scrutiny.



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  #1251  
Old 09-17-2016, 12:40 PM
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Amen Pranter!! I agree completely!!!
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  #1252  
Old 09-17-2016, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Sorry, but how could Harry retire from the Army at the age of 32 and possibly do nothing else in life if it were not for the "royal status" you claim he doesn't care about ?

I submit that, if Harry doesn't want " to be treated differently", he should get a job and live a bourgeois life like everybody else.
I genuinely have no idea how one and the other are connected? There is no getting around the fact that Henry is a royal, but Denvilles suggestion that Henry cares about his position and the benefits it supposedly brings him enough to push the constant scrutiny he received on his children is IMO incorrect. You seem to be suggesting that he has abused his royal status to retire early from the army and "do nothing else in life", which I disagree with. A fully fledge career in the army unless he remained on the ground (at a desk job) was never going to be acceptable for Henry.

I stated that Henry didn't want to be treated differently which is why he pushed so hard to return to Afghanistan. However of all the royals I have seen i don't think Henry would ever, use his royal status to push in line at waitrose or jump the queue for the mens room. Which is what Denville IMO was implying in the original post.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
IMO it's not going to matter one iota if Harry's kids were not titled or that he doesn't want them to be in the fishbowl. They will always be of interest and followed because of who HE is. Because of who his mother was.

Mark my words..people will be every bit as interested in Harry's children as they are Williams. Not giving them a title isn't going to lower their level of public scrutiny.



LaRae
Whilst I agree, not giving them HRH and only allowing them to partake in certain royal events similar to James and Louise offers an extra amount of protection that George and Charlotte will never receive.
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  #1253  
Old 09-17-2016, 02:53 PM
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With Harry, we can look at his time after leaving the army in two ways. One is that since he's left the service, he's not been seen as "working" with the definition of that being an actual "job" that results in a paycheck. This has resulted in the opinion of some as "doing nothing". It is true when looking at it this way, that Harry has not earned a dime working.

On the other hand, since leaving the service, Harry has been very actively involved in things that matter to him. Striving to bring awareness and support for service personnel that have been affected by their time in service to their country in one way or another. He's spent considerable time combating HIV/AIDS in various ways including his own personal organization of Sentebale. He has taken a deep interest in the conservation and fight against poaching of animals and has worked actively "digging in and getting dirty" with conservationists which has earned him a position of Ambassador with the United for Wildlife scheme. Everything he's done fits into the missions of The Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. He's not earned a dime here either but he has impacted and reached more people than a lot of 32 year olds in the world today.

He is very well aware of his royal status and what lies ahead for him. It is part of who he is and who he has been since birth. I think he sees his status as more of a blessing that allows him to make a difference easier than seeing his status as a "right" to having a life that's better off than the majority. He strives to be a part of the world around him rather than feel that the world is his oyster and the good life is due him.

Whether or not his children grow up as Princes and Princesses or Lords and Ladies, I would bet my last glass of apple cider that those children will grow up learning from their father's example.
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  #1254  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
With Harry, we can look at his time after leaving the army in two ways. One is that since he's left the service, he's not been seen as "working" with the definition of that being an actual "job" that results in a paycheck. This has resulted in the opinion of some as "doing nothing". It is true when looking at it this way, that Harry has not earned a dime working.

On
He is very well aware of his royal status and what lies ahead for him. It is part of who he is and who he has been since birth. I think he sees his status as more of a blessing that allows him to make a difference easier than seeing his status as a "right" to having a life that's better off than the majority. He strives to be a part of the world around him rather than feel that the world is his oyster and the good life is due him.

Whether or not his children grow up as Princes and Princesses or Lords and Ladies, I would bet my last glass of apple cider that those children will grow up learning from their father's example.
I don't think he sees it as either a bad thing or a blessing. its just part of what he is.. he has that status and he's not going to give it up and get a job in an office. He has used it to do some good, in his charity work after giving up the army, but then his army career was rather fitful because he wasn't able to go into full combat duty and only managed to have 2 spells in that area. And when he had to give up combat duty he didn't want to do a desk job, because I don't think it would interest him.. he finds it boring and its not suited to him. So he evidently felt that he had to give up the army, which I think was a good job for him.. and kept him actively busy.
But I think that he's rather fitful, In that his being wealthy and a prince allows him to dip in and out of his charity wrok when it suits.

There is no way he would want his children not to have the status that is their birth -right, why should he? Even if his kids are called Robert and Mary Windsor, they are still going to attract attention as Prince Harry's children. Ridiculous to suggest that he would say "don't let us have them titled Prince and Princess to save them from press attention."
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  #1255  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:40 PM
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There is no way he would want his children not to have the status that is their birth -right, why should he? Even if his kids are called Robert and Mary Windsor, they are still going to attract attention as Prince Harry's children. Ridiculous to suggest that he would say "don't let us have them titled Prince and Princess to save them from press attention."
We really don't know what Harry would want for his children as of today. He may want his kids to be able to do what they want with their lives without the pressure of the royal "fishbowl" as he has just wanted to be "one of the guys" many times. He may feel that with his royal role in supporting his father and then his brother, his children may also grow up to be in the same support roles for their cousins in years to come.

The cold hard fact is that once Charles does become King, Harry's children are rightfully Princes and Princesses of the UK. It will be his and his wife's own personal decision on what roles they wish for their kids similar to how Edward and Sophie handled it with theirs with the approval of the monarch.
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  #1256  
Old 09-17-2016, 03:58 PM
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Slightly off the title of this thread, but I have long thought that after Charles takes the throne, Harry will buy a home in Africa and live there a good part of the year with his family. The rest of the year he will do official events. But I have just always felt he is happier and more complete out of the limelight he gets in his home country. And I agree with others he really does want to live the life of a normal person - or as close as he can ever get to that. For him, he's always found that in developing nations. It's what he speaks of when he is speaking meaningfully.
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  #1257  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
With Harry, we can look at his time after leaving the army in two ways. One is that since he's left the service, he's not been seen as "working" with the definition of that being an actual "job" that results in a paycheck. This has resulted in the opinion of some as "doing nothing". It is true when looking at it this way, that Harry has not earned a dime working.

On the other hand, since leaving the service, Harry has been very actively involved in things that matter to him. Striving to bring awareness and support for service personnel that have been affected by their time in service to their country in one way or another. He's spent considerable time combating HIV/AIDS in various ways including his own personal organization of Sentebale. He has taken a deep interest in the conservation and fight against poaching of animals and has worked actively "digging in and getting dirty" with conservationists which has earned him a position of Ambassador with the United for Wildlife scheme. Everything he's done fits into the missions of The Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. He's not earned a dime here either but he has impacted and reached more people than a lot of 32 year olds in the world today.
Basically what you are saying is that Harry is doing charity/NGO work as many other rich people and, incidentally, many other non-full-time royals do (e.g. Princess Madeleine of Sweden working for the World Childhood Foundation). My point was that he can do that without having to worry about making a living because, first he inherited some money from his mother and, second, he is Prince Charles' son, and Prince Charles gets a considerable income himself from the Duchy of Cornwall and other sources.

I have nothing against Harry's philanthropic interests. Personally, I think, however, that he should have stayed in the army longer and maybe made it at least to a rank equivalent to a Lieutenant-Colonel like Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, when he left active service. It would have reflected better on him IMHO.
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Old 09-17-2016, 04:50 PM
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Basically, what Harry did in the armed forces and what he trained to do sometimes made him a giant bulls eye target and endangered those around him. But that is really a topic for another thread as it doesn't delve into future titles and whatnot for Harry in the future.

When it does come to the future titles of Harry & family, I don't think that Harry is as adamant about royal status as perhaps Andrew is and Margaret was. He'd never be the kind of guy that would say on approaching a door "I go first, I'm a prince". When it comes to future titles for his kids, I know what his first choice will be. That is "Daddy".
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  #1259  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:53 PM
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Bas

I have nothing against Harry's philanthropic interests. Personally, I think, however, that he should have stayed in the army longer and maybe made it at least to a rank equivalent to a Lieutenant-Colonel like Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, when he left active service. It would have reflected better on him IMHO.
I agree. He's a nice guy and has a good heart. And I think his charity work means a lot to him. But he is IMO rather fitful at time becuase he IS rich and can drop in and out of the work when it suits him and he also has the "get out" of "I have to do soem royal engagements" if he gets a bit tired of living in say Africa.
So he does not have to commit to stuff for too long, he can get out if ther's too much living in primitive conditions or it gets boring.

I think he shoudl have stayed a longer hitch in the army. It looked like he was a bit unwilling to do a desk job, because it was not something he'd be very good at..
But if he really wants to be "fairly ordinary", it would look more convincing if he stayed in his army career till he say reached 40 or so..
Andrew stuck the Navy out for a longer period, and I thtink that that kept HIM on the straight and narrow. After that he ended up in that Trade Envoy job that didn't suit him, and gave him too much "rich living."
.

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Basi
When it does come to the future titles of Harry & family, I don't think that Harry is as adamant about royal status as perhaps Andrew is and Margaret was. He'd never be the kind of guy that would say on approaching a door "I go first, I'm a prince". When it comes to future titles for his kids, I know what his first choice will be. That is "Daddy".
No he 's not that type. But he is a Prince and I can't see how he would not want his children to have the titles that they should have, as royals.. It woudl not save them from press notice, if they just had titles like Viscount X or Lady Mary M-Windsor. They would be noticed because they are the children of a well known and popular royal.
He wouldn't even think of such an idea, IMO.
HIs kids will PROBABLY be needed for royal duties in time to come.. If not, and if they DO want to do ordinary jobs, they can just drop the titles when in the office or what have and just go by their surnames or his title's name.
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Old 09-17-2016, 05:25 PM
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No he 's not that type. But he is a Prince and I can't see how he would not want his children to have the titles that they should have, as royals.. It woudl not save them from press notice, if they just had titles like Viscount X or Lady Mary M-Windsor. They would be noticed because they are the children of a well known and popular royal.
He wouldn't even think of such an idea, IMO.
HIs kids will PROBABLY be needed for royal duties in time to come.. If not, and if they DO want to do ordinary jobs, they can just drop the titles when in the office or what have and just go by their surnames or his title's name.
I find it very unlikely that the children of the King's second son will not be granted HRH status. It would go against all British precedent and existing Letters Patent. If Harry has children before Charles ascends the throne, they will be titled as children of a duke only as the law BTW says today, but, once Charles becomes king, they will be made princes for sure

I also think it is improbable that Harry will be able to remain a part-time royal. If Charles really insists on a slimmed-down RF, Harry and his future wife will be needed full time as Charles and Camilla will be slowing down as they age and Harry is William's only brother (unlike Queen Elizabeth, who has four children plus her cousins to rely on). The BRF simply has too many engagements for Harry to opt out (he could in a smaller country like Sweden or Denmark, but not in Britain plus the Commonwealth realms).
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