The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Prince Harry and Prince William

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #981  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:23 PM
QueenMathilde's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Coast, United States
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
A royal dukedom is greater than a Prince, which is why William is referred as HRH Duke of Cambridge instead of simply Prince William. He can also be referred to as HRH Prince William, Duke of Cambridge.

Catherine is not now, nor under the current system will she ever be Princess Catherine. The only time her name will ever be involved with her titles is when she is Queen (and even then not likely). Her titles are all by courtesy of her husband and where a name is involved it is his, not hers.

If William didn't have his dukedom and was still HRH Prince William of Wales then Catherine would be HRH Princess William of Wales. Because William has a dukedom, she is instead HRH Duchess of Cambridge.

In the future she will likely be HRH Duchess of Cornwall, HRH Princess of Wales (when Charles is King), HM The Queen (when William is King), HM Queen Catherine (when George is King).



William's children will all be Prince(ss) because letters patent were issued making them such. Harry's children will be Prince(ss) when they are the grandchildren of the monarch. If they are not the grandchildren of the monarch then they will either be styled as the child of a Prince (Lord/Lady) or the child of whatever peerage Harry has. If Harry has secondary titles then his heir apparent (typically the first born son) will use that as a title.

It's not all that likely that Harry's children will be given any titles beyond what they get from being Harry's child or Charles' grandchild. Their position will be similar to that of the Kents, Gloucesters, and Yorks - their father will be the son of the monarch and bestowed a peerage as a result, but they will only be the grandchild of the monarch and not in the direct line of succession, so they will not be bestowed with any peerages.
They're saying the same thing with Camilla - she can't be a Queen because to be a Queen you have to be born into the family not married onto it? So like Phillip is just a prince and not "King Phillip" Camilla and Kate won't be called queen but Princess? King William and Princess Kate? Is that right?
__________________

__________________
Hollywood amuses me. Holier-than-thou for the public and unholier-than-the-devil in reality.
-Grace Kelly
Reply With Quote
  #982  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:43 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,442
Catherine won't become HRH Princess of Wales immediately.

Her future titles are:

HRH The Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge, The Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Countess of Straethern, Baroness Renfrew, Baronees Carrickferfus

When and if William is created Prince of Wales she will then add Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester to her titles but keep all of the rest.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #983  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:59 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post

They're saying the same thing with Camilla - she can't be a Queen because to be a Queen you have to be born into the family not married onto it? So like Phillip is just a prince and not "King Phillip" Camilla and Kate won't be called queen but Princess? King William and Princess Kate? Is that right?
No.

There is a debate that Camilla should/will be titled Princess Consort when Charles becomes king out of a personal preference/deference to his first wife, all that jazz. Whether or not this actually happens and how it comes about is yet to be seen - we won't know until it happens. I'm being a bit lazy here by not going into the whole thing but it's a huge can of worms. A thread on it can be found here: Title for Camilla - Part 4

The issue with Philip is that a man does not take his spouse's titles. Philip cannot be called king because he is not the king. Similarly, Anne's husbands were never Princes, Beatrice and Eugenie's future husbands will not be Princes, and Zara's husband did not become Mr. Zara Phillips.

Women, however, typically take their husband's titles. Diana became the Princess of Wales on her marriage because her husband was the Prince of Wales. Camilla became Duchess of Cornwall for the same reason, similarly with Catherine and the Duchess of Cambridge, Sophie and Countess of Wessex, Zara and Mrs. Mike Tindall. Women take the female equivalent of their husband's titles.

Catherine will never be Princess Catherine because she's not a blood princess, but she will likely one day become Queen because she is married to a man who will likely one day become King and she takes the female equivalent of his titles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #984  
Old 07-29-2013, 09:29 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Would you perhaps have preferred the phrase "highly unlikely" since Cathernie has the use of the female version of her husbands titles while Philip did not enjoy such a privelege. HM merely restored to Philip a title he gave up when he became a naturalized British citizen and commmoner as Lt Philip Mountbatten. As long as Catherine is still married to William and not a widow she has no need of an independent styling as Princess Catherine so I do believe it is highly unlikely that HM will make Catherine a princess in her own right.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #985  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:59 PM
PrincessKaimi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hilo, Malibu, United States
Posts: 1,325
Is there a place where I can read Prince Philip's titles in a similar progression?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #986  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:14 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Is there a place where I can read Prince Philip's titles in a similar progression?
1921-1947: HRH Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark
1947: Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten
1947: HRH Sir Philip Mountbatten
1947-1957: HRH The Duke of Edinburgh
1957-Present: HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh

In addition to DoE, he's also Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #987  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:30 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
As the titular dignity of prince/ss is entirely within the gift of the sovereign, it is not accurate to say Catherine (or Harry's future wife) will never be Princess Catherine. The Queen made Philip a British Prince and William in the future, can just as easily do the same for Catherine. It is entirely up to the sovereign of the time.
I doubt very much that William would make Kate a Princess as by the time he is in a position to do she would be Queen, unless you suggesting that they will bedivorced and he would make he a princess as the mother of the heir to the throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #988  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:05 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

I doubt very much that William would make Kate a Princess as by the time he is in a position to do she would be Queen, unless you suggesting that they will bedivorced and he would make he a princess as the mother of the heir to the throne.
I guess there's also the possibility that William dies without becoming King and Catherine pulls a Princess Alice.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #989  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:05 AM
PrincessKaimi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hilo, Malibu, United States
Posts: 1,325
Thank you, Ish. So, Prince Philip remains HRH while Duchess Catherine, as Queen, would be HM? (Although now I don't see the earlier post).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #990  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:12 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Thank you, Ish. So, Prince Philip remains HRH while Duchess Catherine, as Queen, would be HM? (Although now I don't see the earlier post).
Not a problem.

Kings and Queens are HMs. In Britain, Princess and Princesses are HRHs (they're also HRHs elsewhere, but they can have a number of different types of Highness elsewhere). As Philip is only a Prince he is HRH, and as Catherine will be a Queen she will be HM.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #991  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:30 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Thank you, Ish. So, Prince Philip remains HRH while Duchess Catherine, as Queen, would be HM? (Although now I don't see the earlier post).
There is a simple sexist heirarchy here:

Kings reign with a Queen - so King William and Queen Catherine

Queens reign with a Prince - so Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip

King, Queens, Princes, then Princesses - although that is on its way out with birth order taking place over gender - when the realms get around to changing the current law at some time in the future.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #992  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:51 AM
windsorbrides1's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Branson, United States
Posts: 87
Victoria's Albert was also a Prince Consort. He was not made King because he was (a) a foreigner from an unpopular country at the time and (b) Because the connotation in her time would have been that he was in charge.

Philip was not made a King for the same reasons. The Greek royal house had some taint, and they wanted Elizabeth the undoubted Queen. Also, because the precedent had been set with Prince Albert.

It was announced at the time of his wedding that Prince Edward will be named Duke of Edinburgh, which is why he is now only an Earl. Both his parents would technically have to die, but I could see the Queen releasing her rights to the title and handing them over as the Queen Mother did with the York title so Prince Andrew could become Duke of York. The Queen would then take the title Dowager Duchess of Edinburgh as her mother became Dowager Duchess of York.

Prince Harry, no matter how down to earth he is, will probably not have a choice with the HRH for his children. He is 4th in line to the throne and being that close it's possible (though highly unlikely) that if there was some disaster or terrorist plot, which is not all that crazy an idea since 9/11 in America, that he could be King. Just as Prince Andrew's girls are HRHs, so Harry's children will be also.

I don't believe that any royal heir will ever be named Duke of Clarence, since the last Duke of Clarence has the taint of Jack the Ripper about him (there are conspiracy theories). This is why I believe that William was not given the title, even though the last son of a Prince of Wales (Prince Eddy son of Edward VII) was. I don't see them reviving the Duke of Windsor's title either after his Nazi connections were exposed. My best guess is that they will either revive an ancient title like they did with Wessex for Edward or they'll make up an entirely new one. I'm thinking Duke of Tudor, since Henry VIII, his 6 wives, and Elizabeth I are presently making a comeback with the Elizabeth movies, and the tv shows The Tudors, and The White Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #993  
Old 08-23-2013, 06:18 AM
Furienna's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Örnsköldsvik, Sweden
Posts: 1,200
Duke of Tudor? I hardly think so, but it sounds interesting.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #994  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:20 AM
Excalibur's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, United States
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbrides1 View Post
... Both his parents would technically have to die, but I could see the Queen releasing her rights to the title and handing them over as the Queen Mother did with the York title so Prince Andrew could become Duke of York. The Queen would then take the title Dowager Duchess of Edinburgh as her mother became Dowager Duchess of York.
Both his parents would have to die, not technically, but in actuality. The Edinburgh title is not actually the Queen's so there is no right for her to release. Once Prince Philip passes, the title passes to Prince Charles, therefore it is HIS right to release. But if he were to release that right, then it passes to William, and then to George, etc.

And the Queen will never be known as the Dowager Duchess of Edinburgh. She will Her Majesty The Queen until the day she passes from this life.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #995  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:29 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbrides1 View Post
Victoria's Albert was also a Prince Consort. He was not made King because he was (a) a foreigner from an unpopular country at the time and (b) Because the connotation in her time would have been that he was in charge.

Philip was not made a King for the same reasons. The Greek royal house had some taint, and they wanted Elizabeth the undoubted Queen. Also, because the precedent had been set with Prince Albert.

It was announced at the time of his wedding that Prince Edward will be named Duke of Edinburgh, which is why he is now only an Earl. Both his parents would technically have to die, but I could see the Queen releasing her rights to the title and handing them over as the Queen Mother did with the York title so Prince Andrew could become Duke of York. The Queen would then take the title Dowager Duchess of Edinburgh as her mother became Dowager Duchess of York.
Neither Albert nor Philip were make Kings because a King outranks a Queen. Has absolutely nothing to do with being foreign.

For Edward to become DOE is father has to die and either The Queen or King Charles has to re-issue the title to Edward. Has nothing to do with The Queen relinquishing titles etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by windsorbrides1 View Post
I'm thinking Duke of Tudor, since Henry VIII, his 6 wives, and Elizabeth I are presently making a comeback with the Elizabeth movies, and the tv shows The Tudors, and The White Queen.
Duke of Tudor is a non-existent title, has no lands, no history, no anything. Makes little sense to be Duke of somewhere because tv shows are coming out.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #996  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:29 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Current former but vacant royal Dukedoms are:

Albany
Albemarle
Bedford
Clarence
Connaught
Cumberland
Hereford
Kendal
Ross
Sussex
Windsor

I like Ross and Bedford.
Albany and Cumberland are still extant Dukedoms, so they are not available. While the Dukedoms were suspended under the Titles Deprivation Act, Prince Ernst-August of Hanover and Prince Hubertus of Saxe-Coburg still have the right to petition for restoration as the eldest male descendants.

Clarence is currently an Earldom, together with the Dukedom of Albany, so that too is unavailable, although The Sovereign can re-create it as a Dukedom if they wish.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #997  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:32 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 585
I had read somewhere that it had been agreed before William's wedding that Harry would get the title Duke of Sussex when he married.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #998  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:37 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
For Edward to become DOE is father has to die and either The Queen or King Charles has to re-issue the title to Edward. Has nothing to do with The Queen relinquishing titles etc.
Edward could only become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his parents, at which point either Charles or William is King.

When Philip dies, his titles pass to Charles, or if he does not survive him, then William. When they become/or are King, the Edinburgh dukedom merges with the Crown and is available again to be re-created for Edward.

The Queen could not re-create it since there are plenty of heirs in the male-line of Philip to inherit it, four of whom are in immediate succession.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #999  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:41 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I had read somewhere that it had been agreed before William's wedding that Harry would get the title Duke of Sussex when he married.
That's the general expectation, but of course, anything is possible. Sussex makes the most sense given history and the available options.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1000  
Old 08-23-2013, 10:41 AM
Excalibur's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, United States
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
For Edward to become DOE is father has to die and either The Queen or King Charles has to re-issue the title to Edward.
The Queen cannot re-issue the title after Philip dies, as the title then belongs to Charles. Only the next King can re-issue the title, once it merges with the Crown.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
prince harry, prince william, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman poland pom president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:24 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]