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  #821  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:42 AM
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What are the chances of creating a completely new one? As someone who likes the Saxon era, how about Duke of Mercia?
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  #822  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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maybe duke of sussex
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  #823  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
What are the chances of creating a completely new one? As someone who likes the Saxon era, how about Duke of Mercia?
There were Kings and Earls of Mercia - but no Dukes. I guess in theory, an old Anglo-Saxon title can be revived; after all, the Earl of Wessex was a pre-Conquest Anglo-Saxon title that belonged to, among others, Harold Godwinson - the last Anglo-Saxon King of England. A new title for Harry is possible, but overall highly improbable; more than likely, Harry will be granted one of the Royal Dukedoms. Currently, only the following Royal Dukedoms are vacant:

- Clarence
- Sussex
- Windsor
- Albemarle
- Ross
- Kendal
- Hereford
- Connaught
- St Andrews
- Strathearn
- Avondale


More on that, in this post.


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Originally Posted by Tsar bobo Iv View Post
maybe duke of sussex
That's quite possible. Personally, I think Sussex (along with Ross and Hereford), is one of the likeliest Dukedoms for Prince Harry.

Of the available Dukedoms, the following are highly unlikely choices:
- Strathearn (since Prince William has already been created Earl of Strathearn)
- Windsor (no one needs reminder of the abdication crisis).
- Albemarle (because of all the issues with Jacobite creations).
- Kendal (because the last creation was for the King's mistress).
- Avondale (the last holder - Prince Albert Victor, was rumoured to be Jack the Ripper. Also, the title was never used separately).
- Clarence (again, unfortunate associations. Also, the title was never used separately and only with conjecture with another dukedom)
- Connaught (because it's in Ireland)
- St Andrews (because there already is a St Andrews - the Earl of St Andrews, the Duke of Kent's son)
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  #824  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:04 PM
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I think Hereford is pretty unlikely as well since it is already in use as the Premier Viscountcy in the Peerage of England.
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  #825  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:10 PM
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Thank you for the great list! Too bad York is taken. I'm thinking that Windsor may be restored. The name is so compelling and it could do with a polish to make it lustrous again. I think Harry is just the man to make it glorious.
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  #826  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:27 PM
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Isn't there alredy an Earl of St Andrews?
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  #827  
Old 07-16-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
Isn't there alredy an Earl of St Andrews?
There is indeed an Earl of St Andrews; it's one of the subsidiary titles of the Duke of Kent. His son, George, uses it as his courtesy style.

However, there is also a Dukedom of St Andrews, which is currently vacant. It was originally part of a double title (Duke of Clarence and St Andrews) and was created for Prince William, 1st Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (future William IV).
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  #828  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:20 PM
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i hope they bring back the duke annd duchess of windsor 2 it is really appealing
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  #829  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:31 PM
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"Duke of Windsor" sounds really good, but then again it has a lot of negative history with King Edward VII and Wallis Simpson and then it was made the BRF's family name (or whatever you call it), so I fear it's unlikely that he'll be given that title.

I like Duke of Clarence, it would sound really good with a double title, but Clarence sounds good on it's own too.
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  #830  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:46 AM
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I like Clarence too but I also like Connaught and St Andrews
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  #831  
Old 07-17-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDutchess

I like Clarence too but I also like Connaught and St Andrews
There's already an Earl of St Andrews: George Windsor, the oldest son of the Duke of Kent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._of_St_Andrews

Connaught is now in the Republic of Ireland so I doubt that any member of the Royal family will be given the title.
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  #832  
Old 07-17-2012, 10:38 AM
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Actually, it is the Duke of Kent who is also Earl of St Andrews; his oldest son merely used the title as his style by courtesy.

Apart from the title "Earl of St Andrews", there is also a separate title "Duke of St Andrews", which is currently vacant and can be bestowed upon anyone at any time. Duke of St Andrews was originally part of a double title (Duke of Clarence and St Andrews) and was created for George III's third son (future William IV).
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  #833  
Old 07-17-2012, 10:48 AM
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...So, for example, if Harry is created Duke of X, Baron of Y and Viscount Z, then:
- Harry will be known as Prince Henry, Duke of X
- His eldest son (and Heir Apparent) will be known as Baron of Y
- The eldest son of the eldest son will be known as Viscount Z
The subsidiary titles used in the above example are in the wrong order as Viscounts precede Barons in the peerage [Duke-Marquess-Earl-Viscount-Baron].

Based on the assumption that Harry becomes a Royal Duke and remains true to the Letters Patent of 1917, his eldest son will likely be born as a courtesy-titled Earl but later become a Prince of the United Kingdom with the style of Royal Highness.

So under the present convention and assuming Harry's eldest son is born during the reign of Elizabeth II it's more likely to be:
- Harry is created Duke of X, Earl of Y and Baron Z and is known by his ducal title
- His eldest son will be Earl of Y (courtesy title)
Duke Harry is unlikely to have a grandson during the current reign but if this occurred, the Earl of Y's eldest son would bear the courtesy title of Baron Z.

The situation would change on Charles's accesstion to the throne when the Earl of Y becomes a male-line grandson of the Sovereign and thus entitled under Letters Patent to be a Prince of the United Kingdom with the style of Royal Highness. He would be known as Prince ... of X.
- The Prince's eldest son (Harry's grandson) would likely be passed the courtesy title of Earl of Y
- The Earl's eldest son would in turn be known as Baron Z

Leaving the Wessex/future Edinburgh creation to one side, the current title conventions used within the Royal Family are straightforward. Best examples are for the two sons of George V who had male issue, namely Henry Duke of Gloucester and George Duke of Kent:

- The Duke of Gloucester (Prince Richard of Gloucester from his birth in 1944 until his father's death in June 1974)
- The Duke's son: Earl of Ulster (born October 1974)
- The Earl 's son: Baron Culloden (born 2007)

- The Duke of Kent (Prince Edward of Kent from his birth in 1935 until his father's death in 1942)
- The Duke's eldest son: Earl of St Andrews (born 1962)
- The Earl's son: Baron Downpatrick (born 1988)

There is clarity in the Gloucester and Kent titular flow. The immediate Royal Family's present situation muddies the waters due to the Duke of York having no sons, Prince Edward's stop-gap Earldom causing confusion, and William's Dukedom being freshly-minted but destined to be superceded.
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  #834  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:07 PM
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Right you are Warren, Viscount does indeed outrank Baron.
I confused the ranking of the two in the second part of that post.
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  #835  
Old 07-18-2012, 09:32 AM
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I really like Clarence and I think this or Connaught would be the territorial designation of Harry's possible dukedom. Anyway, I'm not sure that Harry will ever get a dukedom as Charles would be a minimalistic and very modest monarch, I believe.
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  #836  
Old 07-18-2012, 09:37 AM
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Given that Connaught is not part of the United Kingdom I doubt it will ever be revived as a British peerage. I can see Clarence or Sussex or possibly Ross being used as a future royal dukedom.
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  #837  
Old 07-18-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kbk View Post
I really like Clarence and I think this or Connaught would be the territorial designation of Harry's possible dukedom. Anyway, I'm not sure that Harry will ever get a dukedom as Charles would be a minimalistic and very modest monarch, I believe.
I agrees that Charles wants a smaller BRF but I think that the core members will have titles and that Harry would be offered a royal dukedom.

It's another whole can of ball games as to whether he would accept it.
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  #838  
Old 07-18-2012, 01:11 PM
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I think it will be offered and accepted when he marries - otherwise his wife would be known as the Princess Harry and not have a title in her own right.
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  #839  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
I think it will be offered and accepted when he marries - otherwise his wife would be known as the Princess Harry and not have a title in her own right.
Only by those 'in the know' about Royal titles; everyone else will call her Princess Chelsey (or whatever!)
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  #840  
Old 07-18-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllieCat

Only by those 'in the know' about Royal titles; everyone else will call her Princess Chelsey (or whatever!)
People haven't really been doing that with Kate.
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