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  #801  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
However undair, that's one of the rules I actually strongly support; otherwise, there could be some very unfortunate incidents. Imagine, for example, that Tom Parker Bowles were Prince Charles' natural son and was legitimised by his parents' marriage. If there were no rules barring adopted and illegitimate (even legitimised) children from inheriting the Throne or peerages, that would effectively mean that Tom would bypass his younger half-sibling William and become the new Heir Apparent.
As long as the child is raised from birth (or a very young age, so they don't remember anything else) as a member of the royal family, I don't see why it should matter if his/her parents were married at the time of his/her birth or not.
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  #802  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
As long as the child is raised from birth (or a very young age, so they don't remember anything else) as a member of the royal family, I don't see why it should matter if his/her parents were married at the time of his/her birth or not.
Well life is perhaps not fair, but inheriting the throne is not quite the same as inheriting a semi detached house in Surbiton. Different rules apply.
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  #803  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:14 PM
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Maybe so, but still!
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  #804  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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times has change so we wont kow until it happends
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  #805  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by shaya View Post
times has change so we wont kow until it happends
There is a separate thread to discuss illegitimacy, but as the law stands now inheritance of titles is based on children born in lawful wedlock.
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  #806  
Old 04-27-2012, 05:40 PM
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The real problem is not with recognising an illegimate son/child as the eldest but the unrecognised one coming out of the woodwork late in the game and upsetting the apple-cart.

e.g. imagine if Tom is Charles and Camilla's son and DNA test prove that moving him ahead of William in the line of succession and the law accepts that but...then some woman in say Australia comes forward claiming that Charles is the father of her son, born earlier than Tom and again DNA proves it - then that son becomes the heir.

I totally support the insistence that a child who is to inherit a throne or other title has to be born to legally married parents and be the biological child of that marriage. (The child doesn't have to have been conceived while the parents were married mind you - so if Harry was to get a woman pregnant I would hope that he would man up and do the right thing and marry her and that The Queen would give the appropriate permission in time).
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  #807  
Old 04-29-2012, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post

If I had to bet money, my choice would be either the Duke of Ross or the Duke of Sussex.
I was also wondering, seeing as William got three different titles, do you reckon Harry might also be given several titles of different countries of the UK or more likely just one?
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  #808  
Old 04-29-2012, 07:17 AM
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I was also wondering, seeing as William got three different titles, do you reckon Harry might also be given several titles of different countries of the UK or more likely just one?
As the second son of the (future) Sovereign, Harry will almost certainly get at least three titles - a Dukedom, an Earldom, a Viscountcy and/or Baronetcy. Not only Royals - hereditary titles created for nobility usually include subsidiary titles as well. That's done so that the Heir Apparent to the title can have a courtesy title (usually, his father's second highest title), and the Heir Apparent's eldest son is not without a title either. As per tradition for Royal Princes, all the titles will from different parts of the Kingdom.

So, for example, if Harry is created Duke of X, Baron of Y and Viscount Z, then:
- Harry will be known as Prince Henry, Duke of X
- His eldest son (and Heir Apparent) will be known as Baron of Y
- The eldest son of the eldest son will be known as Viscount Z

Prince Edward was created Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn, which is why his only son is titled by courtesy Viscount Severn.
Prince Andrew was created Duke of York, Earl of Inverness, Baron Killyleagh. If he had a son, that son would be known as Earl of Inverness. The eldest son of the Earl of Inverness (born during Andrew's lifetime) would have the courtesy title of Baron Killyleagh.
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  #809  
Old 04-29-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post
I was also wondering, seeing as William got three different titles, do you reckon Harry might also be given several titles of different countries of the UK or more likely just one?

The tradition for the last 100 or so years has been three titles. The exception have been The Duke of Windsor - given only the one title - and The Earl of Wessex but he is expected to add one of his father's at some point in the future, which would also give him three titles.

Philip - Edinburgh (Scotland), Merioneth (Wales), Greenwich (England)
Andrew- York (England), Inverness (Scotland), Killyleagh (Ireland)
Edward - Wessex (England), Severn (Wales - the River Severn is in both Wales and England if my Geography is correct)
William - Cambridge (England), Strathearn (Scotland), Carrickfergus (Ireland)

Going back to George V's sons and the titles currently held by his grandsons:

Albert (George VI) - York (England), Inverness (Scotland), Killarney (Ireland) - notice that Andrew's Irish title is Killyleagh in Northern Ireland while George VI's is in the republc and thus not available for his grandson
Henry - Gloucester (England), Ulster (Ireland), Culloden (Scotland)
George - Kent (England), St Andrews (Scotland), Downpatrick (Ireland)

Going back another generation

George V also had three titles - York, Inverness and Killarney - the same titles he gave to his own second son.

It therefore is fairly clear that three titles is the norm with one from England, one from Scotland and one from either Wales or Northern Ireland (unless inherited from a title created prior to the separation of that country).

It would therefore be safe to assume that Harry will end up with three titles - one English, one Scottish and one from either Wales or Northern Ireland.
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  #810  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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How do they determine what titles the daughters of second, third, etc. in line for the throne get? Why are Andrew's daughters titled "Princess", Anne's children not titled and Edward's children titled "Lady" and "Lord" and not "Prince" and Princess"?
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  #811  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Myself1995 View Post
How do they determine what titles the daughters of second, third, etc. in line for the throne get? Why are Andrew's daughters titled "Princess", Anne's children not titled and Edward's children titled "Lady" and "Lord" and not "Prince" and Princess"?
Zara and Peter hold no title because their father didn't accept one and they are children of a female who cannot pass down her title.
Louise and James are Lady and Viscount Severn because that is the way Edward and Sophie decided it would be, this was to avoid the burdens of a title.
Beatrice and Eugenie are Princess' due to the letters patent issued in 1917 which assign a princely status and the style of Royal Highness to all male-line grandchildren of a monarch.
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  #812  
Old 05-06-2012, 03:58 PM
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There's also the "Princess Royal" title, held by the monarch's oldest daughter, which right now is Princess Anne.
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  #813  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:04 PM
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There's also the "Princess Royal" title, held by the monarch's oldest daughter, which right now is Princess Anne.
Princess Royal is a style, not title. It's not like a real (peerage) title with the result that Princess Anne, like Princess Beatrice or Prince Harry, is a commoner.
It is indeed usually (but not automatically) given to the Monarch's oldest daughter.
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  #814  
Old 05-06-2012, 04:22 PM
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Yes, I'm sure you're right.
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  #815  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Myself1995 View Post
How do they determine what titles the daughters of second, third, etc. in line for the throne get? Why are Andrew's daughters titled "Princess", Anne's children not titled and Edward's children titled "Lady" and "Lord" and not "Prince" and Princess"?

The simple answer - The 1917 Letters Patent issued by George V which identified those who could be HRH Prince/Princess.

1. Children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward
2. Male line grandchildren of the monarch - William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise, James, Richard, Edward, Michael and Alexandra (it is in the category that both Elizabeth and Margaret were when they were born and so they were HRH Princess Elizabeth and HRH Princess Margaret of York as male line grandchildren of George V))
3. The eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales - so William's eldest son

Daughters do NOT automatically pass on any titles - even The Queen. When she was HRH The Princess Elizabeth and heiress presumptive to the throne she couldn't pass on any titles to her own children. As a result George VI had to issue new LPs to cover any children born to Elizabeth in October 1948. Had that not been done Charles would have been born Lord Charles Mountbatten and taken his father's second title as a courtesy title so he would have been known as The Earl of Merioneth. Anne would have been born Lady Anne Mountbatten.

Louise and James are the two whose situation highlights the changes that have been happening recently. They are being raised with the titles of the children of an Earl not the HRH Prince/Princess because that is the wish of their parents.

I suspect that in time the LPs will be changed to have only the children of the heir to the throne pass on the HRH Prince/Princess title.
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  #816  
Old 06-30-2012, 11:36 PM
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But what about the newcastle dukeom? I think that's the title prince harry will have.
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  #817  
Old 07-01-2012, 02:27 AM
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The Duke of Newcastle title has never been given to a royal before and so is unlikely to be given to a royal now.
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  #818  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie
The Duke of Newcastle title has never been given to a royal before and so is unlikely to be given to a royal now.
Do you think they would combine Clarence and St Andrews ?
Sorry I meant Connaught and St Andrews
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  #819  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:15 AM
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The Duke of Connaught title may be revived, but it is unlikely to be combined with Duke of St Andrews one for two reasons:
- Firstly, there is already a St Andrews in the Royal Family - George Windsor, Earl of St Andrews (the son of the Duke of Kent).
- Secondly, double Dukedoms haven't been been granted for ages; the last one was, I believe, created during the reign of Queen Victoria.
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  #820  
Old 07-16-2012, 11:26 AM
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Connaught is part of Ireland so revival is unlikely.
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