The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Prince Harry and Prince William

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #561  
Old 05-10-2010, 10:05 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
Under the 1917 LPs Harry's children won't automatically be HRH in the present reign and as it is highly likely that Harry will be a father during the Queen's reign I can see her not issuing new LPs for Harry and thus they will start life as Lord or Lady and I can see Harry then keeping them with that title, ala Louise and James, who after all are male line grandchildren of the monarch, - the position that Harry's children will have when Charles is king.

Of course if Charles predeceases the Queen then Harry's children won't ever be entitled to HRH without a change to the 1917 LPs, which I can't see happening unless it is to restrict it further.

It is clear to me on this side of the world that many Britain's would prefer to see the RF reduced in number and Harry's kids would be the obvious ones to miss out.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 05-10-2010, 01:31 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
Well on my side of the world i don't think many people have an opinion how many royals have HRH's.
I don't see Harry being a rather in the Queens reign. Thats my opinion of course, but i don't think he'll have kids until late 30's and touch word i don't think the Queen will last that long.
But Harry might surprise me and many in 6 months and have kids then.
The Queen might surprise me aswell.
I don't see that it's fair that Harry's children should go without titles. There grand-father will be the reigning king at some point.
__________________

__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 05-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Harry's children will be HRH when Charles is King and when William is King. I too don't think Harry will marry and have children while the Queen is still the Queen, so it's a moot point, I think.

Yes, currently the only people entitled to the HRH are the children of the monarch, their wives, male-line grandchildren AND the children of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. So that's Charles, Anne, Andrew, Edward, Camilla, Sophie, William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Louise (legally, though not styled as such) and James (same as his sister). William is not married and has no children, but if he were to marry and have children during his grandmother's reign, they would be entitled to the HRH.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
Reply With Quote
  #564  
Old 05-10-2010, 02:21 PM
Westminster's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 147
What makes you so sure that Harry's children will be HRH when Charles is king? Harrys children would be the kings grandchildren. Just like Peter and Zara Phillips and Edwards children Louise and James who are the Queens grandchildren and no HRH's.

Though I would like to see Harrys children as HRHs, Princes and Princesses (like the Kents and Gloucesters) - I do not believe that they will handle it that way nowadays.
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 05-10-2010, 02:24 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Because 1917 Letters Patent decreed that male-line grandchildren of the monarch are to be styled HRH and Prince/Princess of Great Britain.

Peter and Zara Philips are female-line grandchildren of the monarch, and therefore have no style/title. Their father declined an earldom upon marriage to their mother, if he hadn't they would be Lady Zara Philips and Lord Peter Philips.

Edward and Sophie chose to have their children styled as the children of an earl, although legally they are Princess Louise of Wessex and Prince James of Wessex until Letters Patent from the Queen (or future monarchs) say otherwise. When they're 18, they may choose to use their legal titles or they may choose to remain Lord/Lady. It's up to them at that point.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
Reply With Quote
  #566  
Old 05-10-2010, 02:33 PM
Westminster's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 147
Oh, I didn't know about the 1917 Letters Patent! Interesting! Thank you for the information, Sister Morphine. A bit confusing.
Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 05-10-2010, 06:23 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Yes, currently the only people entitled to the HRH are...
You left off TRH The Dukes of Gloucester and Kent and spouse, Prince Michael and Princess Michael and Princess Alexandra who are all male line grandchildren of George V.

The precedent set by Prince Edward in not having his children styled that way and the criticism of Beatrice and Eugenie for having it when other grandchildren of the monarch don't have it suggests to me that Harry's children, despite the 1917 LPs won't have the HRH to have the privacy that Louise and James enjoy rather than the very public upbringing that William and Harry had.

The British public won't to downsize the RF, the RF have reportedly discussed reducing the size of the RF and Harry's kids are the obvious ones to not have it. As there are reports that the Royal Family, including Charles, are trying to cut down the size of the RF (the Way Ahead Group has proposed it and it was from this discussion that the suggestion was made to strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their HRHs but Andrew resisited) I can see new LPs, or just announcements being made with Harry's children not having HRH. My opinion of course based on lots of reading about things like the Way Ahead Group and their ideas for the future of the RF.
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
I doubt Harry will get a dukedom after his marriage, more like an Earldom.
Can he hold both an earldom and a dukedom?
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Quad Cities, United States
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I doubt Harry will get a dukedom after his marriage, more like an Earldom.
Can he hold both an earldom and a dukedom?
Sort of. When you get a title you usually also get "subsitary titles" for your sons to use. For example-the Duke of Gloucester has two subsitary titles, both in use as he has a son (the Earl of Ulster) and grandson (Baron Culloden). The Earl of Wessex has one subsidary title, Viscount Severn which is used by his son. Usually a duke gets three titles total, and anything lesser, one.
So Harry could be Duke of Cambridge, Earl Balmoral, and Baron Sandringham, for example.
Reply With Quote
  #570  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #571  
Old 06-10-2010, 09:59 PM
RoyalistRiley's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.
My guess is it will depend on when he gets married. If the Queen was to have a terrible accident tomorrow (god forbid) and Charles becomes King and William becomes Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay, what reasons is there for Harry not becoming the Duke of wherever even though he would still be single? If, on the other hand, Harry marries before his brother becomes Duke of Cornwall/Rothesay and/or Prince of Wales, maybe an earldom might be more appropriate.
__________________
God Save the Queen! Advance Australia Fair!
"Life is a game in which the player must appear ridiculous" - The Dowager Countess of Grantham, Downton Abbey
http://twitter.com/FutureSirRiley
Reply With Quote
  #572  
Old 06-14-2010, 09:32 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Well what I mean was, Can he be created Earl of wherever, then upon his brothers ascent to the throne can he also be created Duke of somewhere else?

I understand about subsiduary titles.
I think this is likely to happen for both William and Harry if they marry while their grandmother is alive. The Queen will create them Earls upon marriage as William automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall when Charles is King and Harry will be created a Duke once he is a son of The Sovereign.
Reply With Quote
  #573  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:05 AM
Ella Kay's Avatar
Courtier
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Anywhere, United States
Posts: 953
I think it partly depends on how the family decides to "package" William and his future spouse. If they decide to continue on with spotlighting William as the future heir/king (which is what the early Garter nod was for, IMO), I think they might make him a duke (and his future wife a duchess).

I could very well see HM making Harry an earl on his wedding, though -- he could then receive a dukedom on the day of his father's coronation.
__________________

"I have to be seen to be believed."
HM The Queen
Reply With Quote
  #574  
Old 06-14-2010, 01:53 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
I think William will get a dukedom, most probably Cambridge. And Henry and Earl of somewhere.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #575  
Old 06-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator in Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,476
Posts not strictly relevant to William and Harry have been moved to the Royal Dukes and Ducal Titles thread.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #576  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:51 AM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,007
Perhaps Prince Harry will have a son who can be given the York title in years to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessmary View Post
Welll...look at King George VI and Queen Elizabeth. Two girls, one to become queen. Andrew is single...why not stay that way?
Reply With Quote
  #577  
Old 07-01-2010, 05:26 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Perhaps Prince Harry will have a son who can be given the York title in years to come.

More likely Prince William's second son will get it I think.
Reply With Quote
  #578  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:37 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
Unless they change who inherits the title, which is unlikely I know.
But yes, William's second son will most likely get it when it reverts back to the crown.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #579  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:33 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Unless they change who inherits the title, which is unlikely I know.
But yes, William's second son will most likely get it when it reverts back to the crown.

I have been doing some thinking on this and now think it is more likely to be William's grandson rather than his son given Andrew is now only 50 and he does have some long-lived genes in his ancestry. If he lives to the same age as his father he has another 40 years as Duke of York by which time William's own second son could very well be married with his own title.
Reply With Quote
  #580  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,127
I still think that the title Duke of York, will be given to his second son when her marries.
__________________

__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
prince harry, prince william, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit camillas outfits catherine middleton style coup d'etat courtship crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events december 2015 duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece haldane kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess victoria fashion queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit from mexico state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises