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  #421  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:05 PM
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I know that's not an automatic.
But for many people it's it logical that this is the UK's heir apparent sorry crown prince(ss?) title (I know that the exception was Elizabeth II).
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  #422  
Old 07-05-2008, 12:15 PM
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It could well be that the Prince of Wales title will end with Charles. He strikes me as the type of chap to take into account what the Welsh people want and there is every possibility that the Welsh will not want the title used by an Englishman again. There were demonstrations at Charles investiture and William was roundly condemned by the Welsh for not supporting Wales in the Rugby.
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  #423  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:29 AM
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With all the drama surrounding Prince William and Kate Middleton at the moment, it got me thinking some more about the future weddings of the two brothers, and the titles they might then receive.

I know it's a common practice to bestow dukedoms on the occasion of a royal (British) marriage, but what are the chances of Prince Harry being offered a - temporary - earldom instead?

It has a precedent (i.e. the Wessex titles, while Prince Edward and The Countess "wait" for the Edinburgh dukedom). Prince Harry could become an "heir" of sorts to The Duke of York. The chances of Prince Andrew having a male heir still are very slim. It might be that in due time, Harry could receive the dukedom of York - as he will one day be the second son of the Monarch?
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  #424  
Old 09-22-2008, 10:53 AM
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Prince Harry could become an "heir" of sorts to The Duke of York. The chances of Prince Andrew having a male heir still are very slim. It might be that in due time, Harry could receive the dukedom of York - as he will one day be the second son of the Monarch?
I don't think we will see PH get the Duke of York title. I think Charles will let it revert back to the crown when Andrew dies and then perhaps William will bestow it upon his second son (if he has one of course).

I think Harry's title will be an old one that has been out of use for a while, like Cambridge or Connaught. I like Connaught a lot since the original Duke (Arthur, 3rd son of Victoria) had a long history with the British Army. That might be a fitting title for Harry if he continues to serve, which I think he will.

I'm not sure about William's title, but I do believe he will get one when and if he marries. In Victoria's time, the number 3 heir to the throne was given the title of Duke of Clarence and Avondale. But alas, he died before he married, plus was rumored to be Jack the Ripper, so the title doesn't have that great of history with it. But William IV was a Duke of Clarence so perhaps the Royal Family will choose to skip over a bit of murky history and focus on the fact that a Prince William who became king was once a Duke of Clarence.
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  #425  
Old 09-22-2008, 02:56 PM
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I think Clarence is unlikely to be re-created for William. It still is extant as an earldom with the dukedom of Albany (currently suspended under the Titles Deprivation Act for the descendants of Charles Eduard, Duke of Saxe-Coburg), and may be considered to be somewhat morbid with the premature death of Prince Eddy, who was in William's position as the spare.

I think it's very possible William and Harry will both be created Earls if they marry while The Queen reigns. This will be in line with a "downsized" royal family and allows Charles to decide what dukedom to grant Harry once he is King (William will automatically become The Duke of Cornwall as the heir).
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  #426  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:20 PM
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The Duke of Clarence and Avondale was born 2nd in line to the throne e.g. the same position now held by William. He was the eldest son and child of the Prince of Wales - Edward VII.

George V was born 3rd in line and became 2nd when his brother died. He was created Duke of York by Queen Victoria and then inherited the Dukes of Cornwall and Rothesay titles when Victoria died and he became the eldest surviving son of the king. For most of 1901 he was known officially as the Duke of Cornwall and York. In November that year his father created him Prince of Wales. In 1910 the York title merged with the crown and was then used for George VI - George V's 2nd son.
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  #427  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:30 PM
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I think Harry's title will be an old one that has been out of use for a while, like Cambridge or Connaught. I like Connaught a lot since the original Duke (Arthur, 3rd son of Victoria) had a long history with the British Army. That might be a fitting title for Harry if he continues to serve, which I think he will.
Connaught is unlikely to be ever recreated as it is in the Republic Ireland. But there is also the Title Duke of Sussex who could be recreated.
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  #428  
Old 09-23-2008, 12:48 AM
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Duke of Sussex is a strong possibility for Harry, along with Cambridge.
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  #429  
Old 09-23-2008, 09:27 PM
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Cambridge for William until he becomes DOC And Sussex for Prince Henry.
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  #430  
Old 10-14-2008, 05:09 AM
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I think Harry or William will be named Duke Of Lancaster. York and Lancaster were both absorbed into the crown after the War of The Roses. I think that since both of Diana's sons are Plantaganets, Tudors and Windsors (Saxe-Coburg Gotha's), I think it would be logical for the Queen to give up this Dukedom to one of Charles' sons - probably Prince William so that upon his becoming Prince Of Wales it can be absorbed into the crown again.

Another we haven't spoken of, though it also has bad connotations in it's past is the Dukedom Of Windsor. I know that Elizabeth was extremely fond of her Uncle David. So I think it would be a logical way to honor him to name Harry the Duke Of Windsor.
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  #431  
Old 10-14-2008, 05:30 AM
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The "duke of Windsor" sounds weird to me though, since all the Brittish royals (at least most of them) are Windsors.
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  #432  
Old 10-14-2008, 06:24 AM
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I think Harry or William will be named Duke Of Lancaster. York and Lancaster were both absorbed into the crown after the War of The Roses. I think that since both of Diana's sons are Plantaganets, Tudors and Windsors (Saxe-Coburg Gotha's), I think it would be logical for the Queen to give up this Dukedom to one of Charles' sons - probably Prince William so that upon his becoming Prince Of Wales it can be absorbed into the crown again.
The queen is the current Duke of Lancaster and after her Charles will be Duke of Lancaster as the Duchy always belongs to the souverain.
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  #433  
Old 10-14-2008, 06:27 AM
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More than just Lancaster belonging to the Crown, the Duchy provides the Sovereign with their private income just as the Duchy of Cornwall does for the POW.
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  #434  
Old 10-14-2008, 06:35 AM
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I have heard that the Duchy of Cornwall was one that was really worth having revenue wise.... I think Prince Charles was made the Duke of Cornwall almost at birth so would have been receiving this revenue very early on. Am I wrong?
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  #435  
Old 10-14-2008, 08:30 AM
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I have heard that the Duchy of Cornwall was one that was really worth having revenue wise.... I think Prince Charles was made the Duke of Cornwall almost at birth so would have been receiving this revenue very early on. Am I wrong?
I'm sure this information is to be found at other places as well, but again:

The Duchy of Cornwall was created to provide the heir of the throne with an independant income. But there's a "But" to it: The income is reserved exclusively for the "eldest son of the souverain". So Charles became Duke of Cornwall and recipient of the Duchy's income when his mother became queen. I think he was 3 years old when his grandfather died.

If Charles dies before his mother, his son will not be "Duke of Cornwall" and get the money from the Duchy, as William is only the senior grandson of the queen. I hope you understand the system.

When Charles reached his majority, he gained control of the Duchy, but it was still manged for some years by representatives. And after that it took quite some years to make the Duchy into a successful business. That's why Charles today has a rich income from it but didn't when he had to pay for Diana's expenses and later when he divorced Diana. He even has been so successful as a businessman that some MPs tought it might be better of put the Duchy under public control...

That's about the Duchy of Cornwall. The Duchy of Lancaster would be equally nice to benefit from....
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  #436  
Old 10-14-2008, 09:04 AM
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There is a fuller discussion of royal sources of income in the threads Wealth, Cost and Finances and Duchy of Cornwall.
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  #437  
Old 10-14-2008, 09:07 AM
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Especially if that prime Lancaster property which is now the site of the Savoy hotel still belonged to it...
In its heyday the Savoy Palace had 3,000 people living in it.
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  #438  
Old 10-14-2008, 04:36 PM
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Cambridge for William until he becomes DOC And Sussex for Prince Henry.

He would remain Duke of Cambridge until he became King and like George V would been known as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge until created Prince of Wales - in 1901 George V was known as Duke of Cornwall and York from January to November and that is how he appears on the official documents relating to the opening of the first ever Australian Parliament on May 9th that year.
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  #439  
Old 10-15-2008, 08:11 AM
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I still think The Queen would create William and/or Harry earls for now. The point is to provide a style for their wives so they don't have to be known as Princess William or Henry. Dukedoms are usually granted only to sons of the Sovereigns and neither would be that yet.
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  #440  
Old 10-15-2008, 08:31 AM
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I still think The Queen would create William and/or Harry earls for now. The point is to provide a style for their wives so they don't have to be known as Princess William or Henry. Dukedoms are usually granted only to sons of the Sovereigns and neither would be that yet.
Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence and Avondale, did not live to see his father Edward become king, so I guess there is a precedence that queen Victoria created at least this grandson a Royal Duke.
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