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  #321  
Old 04-11-2007, 06:05 AM
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As I understand it, prince Harry must only wait till he is 25 and inform the Privy Council if the queen disapproves. I don't see it happen in 2007 or later that parliament bothers with a Royal's marriage, especially if this Royal is not the heir. Thus he could legally get married and his wife would share his titles.
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  #322  
Old 04-11-2007, 08:41 AM
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From a practical standpoint, unless the Government expressed its advice to The Queen on the unsuitability of Chelsy to become a member of the royal family due to her father's ties to Mugabe, it is unlikely she would take a stand under the RMA. However, it certainly is possible they would oppose any marriage.

Hopefully, this will never come to pass!
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  #323  
Old 04-11-2007, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
But that marriage would not be recognised in Britain as he hasn't followed the RMA, which is a legal impediment to him marrying. Without the Queen's consent the marriage has no impact in Britain and Chelsy still wouldn't be able to be recognised as HRH Princess Henry nor would their children be able to claim the throne as the marriage is not legal for Harry.
Harry's right to the throne is automatic under the Act of Settlement and only Parliament could change it (unless he married a Catholic of course). The RMA simply states there is a possible consequence of marrying in opposition to Parliament if so expressed by a Bill, which would likely remove his right to the succession for doing so.

His royal status and title is also automatic under the 1917 Letters Patent of George V, but The Sovereign can issue new letters patent modifying them at any time and for any reason. Certainly, marrying in opposition to Parliament and The Sovereign is likely to have a price attached to it, which could mean the loss of his rank as HRH.
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  #324  
Old 04-11-2007, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg
... Certainly, marrying in opposition to Parliament and The Sovereign is likely to have a price attached to it, which could mean the loss of his rank as HRH.
Which is precisely the situation Princess Margaret found herself in, and why she was 'forced' to give up the idea of marrying Group Captain Peter Townsend.
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  #325  
Old 04-11-2007, 08:59 AM
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Exactly. It can and could happen if the Government tenders advice to the Crown signaling opposition.
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  #326  
Old 04-11-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Harry's right to the throne is automatic under the Act of Settlement and only Parliament could change it (unless he married a Catholic of course). The RMA simply states there is a possible consequence of marrying in opposition to Parliament if so expressed by a Bill, which would likely remove his right to the succession for doing so.

His royal status and title is also automatic under the 1917 Letters Patent of George V, but The Sovereign can issue new letters patent modifying them at any time and for any reason. Certainly, marrying in opposition to Parliament and The Sovereign is likely to have a price attached to it, which could mean the loss of his rank as HRH.
I never said that Harry's claim or status was affected.

Only that of his children - as they would be the product of a relationship that was not a legal marriage these children would not be royal, nor have a claim on the throne.

This 'marriage' wouldn't affect Harry's claim at all. However Chelsy couldn't take his titles, as she wouldn't legally be married to him, nor could their children have royal titles or claims.
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  #327  
Old 04-11-2007, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
As I understand it, prince Harry must only wait till he is 25 and inform the Privy Council if the queen disapproves.
And then have neither house of Parliament express its disapproval.

Quote:
I don't see it happen in 2007 or later that parliament bothers with a Royal's marriage, especially if this Royal is not the heir. Thus he could legally get married and his wife would share his titles.

The whole point of the RMA is that he can't get married 'legally' except with the stated approvals of that act. He is covered by the RMA and the government would have to enforce that law.

Because he is subject to the RMA only a marriage approved under the RMA, regardless of how far removed from the throne, is legal and only such a marriage allows the partner to use the titles etc. Without the appropriate consent Harry's marriage isn't legal and his wife couldn't take his titles etc.
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  #328  
Old 04-11-2007, 04:52 PM
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Unless the government issued advice to Her Majesty that the marriage not be approved, it would be borderline unconstitutional (well, as unconstitutional as it gets in the UK) for the Queen to disapprove, as constitutional convention prohibits the Queen from exercising the royal preregogative (which this is a part of) without advice from her government. This allows all "blame" for the actions of the Queen to be placed solely on the heads of the government, so that if the people do not like the actions, they may have a new government put into power.
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  #329  
Old 04-11-2007, 07:59 PM
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Which the Government might, in fact, have to do if a marriage was proposed at this time. It is too controversial for him to marry her, although it may be accepted after William had married and produced an heir.
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  #330  
Old 04-15-2007, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
From a practical standpoint, unless the Government expressed its advice to The Queen on the unsuitability of Chelsy to become a member of the royal family due to her father's ties to Mugabe, it is unlikely she would take a stand under the RMA. However, it certainly is possible they would oppose any marriage.

Hopefully, this will never come to pass!
No, it wouldn't come to pass even if Prince Harry decides to marry Miss Davy. The thing is, before it came to that, the Davy family must be checked out and cleared. I don't think it would come to Prince Harry requesting to marry her unless the "decision" were known to be just a formality. If he makes such a decision, everything will be all checked out already, so there will be no question of her having his title and style as his wife.
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  #331  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:08 PM
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And I believe Chelsy's dad Charles (oh my, another Charles) has recently been cleared of all wrong doings, after the Robert Mugabe Regime stole 140,000 acres and dis-placed all the people in that area. And the Saga continues...............and probably will for many years, as Zimbabwe is not the most stable country, especially for very rich landowners that have worked very hard to maintain. Oh we could go on and on......
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  #332  
Old 06-26-2007, 01:50 PM
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Alright, another random question. The Duke of York, since he currently (and possibly only) has two daughters, do his titles merge with the crown upon his death? I'm pretty sure they don't pass on to Beatrice or Eugenie. Would they pass to the crown, or possibly his younger brother...?
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  #333  
Old 06-26-2007, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LaPlusBelle View Post
Alright, another random question. The Duke of York, since he currently (and possibly only) has two daughters, do his titles merge with the crown upon his death? I'm pretty sure they don't pass on to Beatrice or Eugenie. Would they pass to the crown, or possibly his younger brother...?
His titles will become extinct upon his death, allowing them to be reissued. There's talk of a curse on the title, as the holder for the last several issuances has either become monarch or died with no sons. Some titles can be given a special remainder so that they go to an eldest daughter (i.e. the Earldom of Mountbatten), but the Dukedom of York does not include this.
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  #334  
Old 06-26-2007, 05:24 PM
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Thank you for your posting of this! I have been curious what they would be titled and the knowledge you have here is amazing!
Michelle
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  #335  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
His titles will become extinct upon his death, allowing them to be reissued. There's talk of a curse on the title, as the holder for the last several issuances has either become monarch or died with no sons. Some titles can be given a special remainder so that they go to an eldest daughter (i.e. the Earldom of Mountbatten), but the Dukedom of York does not include this.

Since the late 1400s neither the Dukedom of York nor the Dukedom of Clarence have been inherited into the second generation with the holder either becoming king or dying without legitimate male issue.

Whether that is a curse or not I don't know but...
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  #336  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Well, since William will be Prince of Wales when Charles takes the throne, a dukedom will be a lesser title.
Actually we don't know if William will ever be Prince of Wales.

Charles will have to create that title for him. It isn't automatic.

William will automatically inherit the title Duke of Cornwall when the Queen dies but the title Prince of Wales has to be issued by Letters Patent and we don't know if that will happen.

The present Queen waited over 6 years before issuing the Letters Patent for Charles and Edward VII waited nine months before creating George V Prince of Wales. Charles may simply not issue the relevant Letters Patent and with growing Welsh nationalism that may be a very real possibility.
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  #337  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:54 PM
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So, why did Patricia Mountbatten get the Earldom from Dickie (Philip's uncle) but the same can't be done? What are the specifics when it comes to Letters Patent?
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  #338  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LaPlusBelle View Post
So, why did Patricia Mountbatten get the Earldom from Dickie (Philip's uncle) but the same can't be done? What are the specifics when it comes to Letters Patent?
When Dickie was created Earl of Mountbatten, it was quite likely that he would have no more children. Being close to his daughters, he asked that a provision be inserted into the Letters Patent allowing Patricia and Pamela to succeed to the Earldom should he have no male heirs. When he was assassinated, the Earldom went to Patricia as she was the older of the two and had no brothers. This doesn't apply to any female who is not a daughter of Lord Mountbatten, though, so no other females (barring the death of Patricia and all her descendants before the death of Pamela) will inherit the Earldom.

All of this must be done upon the creation of the title, however. This cannot be done for the Duke of York, as his title was created upon his marriage with no such remainder. Theoretically, he could be granted a second Dukedom of York with a special remainder. He would then become the 1st Duke of York of the 8th creation and the 1st Duke of York of the 9th creation. This was done in 1900 for the Duke of Fife, who had been created Duke of Fife previously in 1889. Thus, for the 12 years until his death, he was 2 Dukes of Fife at once. If this was done for Andrew, the 8th creation of the Dukedom of York would go extinct on his death, while Beatrice would become the 2nd Duchess of York of the 9th creation.
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  #339  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
When Dickie was created Earl of Mountbatten, it was quite likely that he would have no more children. Being close to his daughters, he asked that a provision be inserted into the Letters Patent allowing Patricia and Pamela to succeed to the Earldom should he have no male heirs. When he was assassinated, the Earldom went to Patricia as she was the older of the two and had no brothers. This doesn't apply to any female who is not a daughter of Lord Mountbatten, though, so no other females (barring the death of Patricia and all her descendants before the death of Pamela) will inherit the Earldom.

All of this must be done upon the creation of the title, however. This cannot be done for the Duke of York, as his title was created upon his marriage with no such remainder. Theoretically, he could be granted a second Dukedom of York with a special remainder. He would then become the 1st Duke of York of the 8th creation and the 1st Duke of York of the 9th creation. This was done in 1900 for the Duke of Fife, who had been created Duke of Fife previously in 1889. Thus, for the 12 years until his death, he was 2 Dukes of Fife at once. If this was done for Andrew, the 8th creation of the Dukedom of York would go extinct on his death, while Beatrice would become the 2nd Duchess of York of the 9th creation.

It is also possible, although highly unlikely, that the monarch could ask parliament to pass legislation to alter the original Letters Patent.

I could actually see this happening for Andrew once both the present Queen and DOE have passed on as the expectation is that Charles will create Edward Duke of Edinburgh. As Edward only has a daughter, and it is highly unlikely that he will have any other children with Sophie, the Edinburgh title would become extinct on Edward's death unless, at the creation of the new title, Louise was able to inherit (which I suspect will be the case). As this would mean Edward's daughter being able to inherit but not Andrew's I suspect that legislation, or other action, will happen to even up the rights of the daughters in this case.
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  #340  
Old 07-06-2007, 09:17 AM
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It may happen once Charles becomes King as a way to compensate for the loss of Beatrice and Eugenie's titles and rank as Princesses.

I think it is quite likely new letters patent will be issued limiting the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess of the UK to the children of the Sovereign and the eldest grandchild of the Sovereign. Allowing his nieces to inherit new creations of the dukedoms of York and Edinburgh in their own right would be honourable.
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