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  #261  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
The Dukedom of Edinburgh is already 'reserved' for HRH The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex upon Prince Philip's demise (may good health proceed him).
Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!
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  #262  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!
Oh, I see, yes..Charles shall initially inherit his fathers title and when he becomes King it shall merge with the crown.

However, I thought it was announced at the time of Edward's wedding that it is intended he shall 'eventually' inherit his father's Dukedom. Charles having to re-create a new one?
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  #263  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banda_windsor
But once The Prince of Wales become a King, I think William will immedietly become the new Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay...Well, that's my guess...
The moment that Charles becomes King then William, as the eldest son and heir of the Sovereign, immediately and automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall. He does not, however, become Prince of Wales until such time as the Sovereign creates him so. This could take weeks, months or years; it will be up to King Charles to decide the timing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
However, I thought it was announced at the time of Edward's wedding that it is intended he shall 'eventually' inherit his father's Dukedom. Charles having to re-create a new one?
Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.
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  #264  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
The moment that Charles becomes King then William, as the eldest son and heir of the Sovereign, immediately and automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall. He does not, however, become Prince of Wales until such time as the Sovereign creates him so. This could take weeks, months or years; it will be up to King Charles to decide the timing.

Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.
Indeed. 100% correct.

Whatever will happen, Prince William once will become one of Britain's most titled Peers. He simply has to wait and time will do its work.

That is not the case for his younger brother Prince Henry (Harry). It lies more at had that he will be created Duke of Clarence.
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  #265  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Indeed. 100% correct.

Whatever will happen, Prince William once will become one of Britain's most titled Peers. He simply has to wait and time will do its work.

That is not the case for his younger brother Prince Henry (Harry). It lies more at had that he will be created Duke of Clarence.
I don't think the queen will create a dukedom for Harry, even once he marries. The queen simply can't create a dukedom for Harry as long as William does not yet have one of his own. But why, as other members explained here, should William get his own dukedom when he will inherit his father's titles anyway one day? So I guess it'll be Princes William and Harry (Henry) of Wales till Charles succeeds to the throne, then William will become Prince of Wales and Harry will get his own dukedom. Just my idea, of course.
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  #266  
Old 12-04-2006, 06:43 AM
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Her Majesty should really consider letting Kate be Princess William.

A title like that gives less power to the woman in terms of public perception. Her whole title will be demonstrably predicated on her husband's status. Titles matter in public terms. We have had problems with about to be divorced princesses. If Kate was known as Princess William, she'd be in less of a position to demand to keep her titles after a divorce. She would in terms of PR just be a less powerful force than if she's the Duchess of Clarence or whatever.

Incidentally, if Kate was HRH Princess William of Wales and then they got divorced, what would her title be then? I've always wondered this about Lady John Smiths. Would it be "Kate, Princess William of Wales" or "Susan, Lady John Smith"?
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  #267  
Old 12-04-2006, 07:19 AM
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Kate will be Princess William

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
Her Majesty should really consider letting Kate be Princess William.
Like Diana was HRH The Princess Charles and Camilla is HRH The Princess Charles, also Kate will become HRH Princess William.

But because Prince Charles helds peerages, his spouse shares his style and is also addressed with his peerage titles. Usually The Princess of Wales (not in Scotland) or The Duchess of Rothesay (in Scotland). For known reasons Camilla is styled as The Duchess of Cornwall (not in Scotland) or The Duchess of Rothesay (in Scotland).

As long as Prince William has no peerages, his wife will be styled as HRH Prince William of Wales. When Prince William becomes the Duke of Cornwall, his wife will be styled as The Duchess of Cornwall.
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  #268  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:01 AM
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Oh for goodness sake!

I am sorry to be exasperated, but I do get so tired of posts instructing me on titles, as if I needed to be told!

We are not going to go over the debate as to whether the true title is 'The Duke of York' or 'The Prince Andrew, Duke of York'. BranchQ maintains the latter, I the former, and have cited plenty of official sources to prove it. I prefer to rest on my assertion than debate back and forth as to whether the Prince of Wales is at all "The Prince Charles, Prince of Wales"

Can we not just assume we all know the basics of titles. I am trying to broaden it out a bit to the original (and I think correct) assumpton by Branch Q that the Queen would grant William a dukedom upon marriage to avoid Kate being known as "Princess William".

I am suggesting that Buck House's spin gurus, as an insurance policy, if you like, against Kate/William's marriage going sour and she making demands as to post divorce status, consider the opposite; of letting her retain the old fashioned "Princess William" title that makes it clearer than any royal peerage title to the general public that her royal status is wholly dependent on her status as current bride.

She could hardly demand to remain "Princess William" after a divorce. Given recent royal history I think this would be smart planning.
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  #269  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:13 AM
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Harry's Name

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlightRhapsody
I think Charles' titles are all personal ones, meaning they don't pass on to the sons. Even the title "Prince of Wales" doesn't go automatically to the heir to the throne. It must be conferred to the heir by the monarch. If/when Charles becomes king, the title "Prince of Wales" reverts back to the crown and Charles must confer it to William for him to use it.

Should William and Harry marry before that time, their wives would be titled Princess William and Princess Henry (which is his actual name; always thought that was peculiar that he's called 'Harry'). Unless the monarch makes the wives princesses in their own right, legally, they take the name of their husbands.
When Harry was born in 1984, the palace specifically said that his given name was Henry Charles Albert David, but that he would go by Harry.
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  #270  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
I am trying to broaden it out a bit to the original (and I think correct) assumpton by Branch Q that the Queen would grant William a dukedom upon marriage to avoid Kate being known as "Princess William".
There is no any assumption or spin or whatever needed. Any wife who is not a British princess by birth, will become HRH Princess William. The rules are simple and clear. Du moment that Prince William gets a peerage, his wife will be styled with her husband's peerage title.

If Kate will marry William tomorrow, she will become in a normal routing:

HRH Princess William of Wales

HRH The (Princess William,) Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay

HRH The (Princess William,) Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay

HM The Queen

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  #271  
Old 12-04-2006, 09:45 AM
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I doubt William's wife will carry the style of HRH Princess William upon marriage. The Queen may grant him an earldom for the sake of his wife having a style until he becomes Duke of Cornwall.

We'll just have to wait and see.
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  #272  
Old 12-04-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.
Thank you, Warren
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  #273  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!

William won't ever have FOUR dukedoms.

If the present Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen that title will pass immediately to Charles (who will then have three dukedoms).

On Charles accession the Dukedom of Edinburgh will merge with the crown and not be inherited by William (who will then have the Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothsay and any other Dukedom that the Queen may have conferred upon him). William, will thus, at best have only three dukedoms - the same as his father would have had in this scenario.

However, if Philip dies after the Queen then the Edinburgh title immediately merges with the crown. Again William could only have a maximum of three dukedoms.

However, if Charles dies before his mother then William can't become either Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay as these titles a held specifically for the eldest son of the monarch and heir to the throne not just the heir to the throne. George III who was the heir to the throne (eldest son of the eldest son who had died) was never Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay. His position as heir would be the same as William's in the scenario I am talking about here.

If Charles dies before his mother then William could at best hold two Dukedoms - his own, and on the death of his grandfather the Edinburgh title, which he would hold until his own succession when both titles would merge with the crown.
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  #274  
Old 12-06-2006, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
William won't ever have FOUR dukedoms.

If the present Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen that title will pass immediately to Charles (who will then have three dukedoms).

On Charles accession the Dukedom of Edinburgh will merge with the crown and not be inherited by William (who will then have the Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothsay and any other Dukedom that the Queen may have conferred upon him). William, will thus, at best have only three dukedoms - the same as his father would have had in this scenario.

However, if Philip dies after the Queen then the Edinburgh title immediately merges with the crown. Again William could only have a maximum of three dukedoms.

However, if Charles dies before his mother then William can't become either Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay as these titles a held specifically for the eldest son of the monarch and heir to the throne not just the heir to the throne. George III who was the heir to the throne (eldest son of the eldest son who had died) was never Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay. His position as heir would be the same as William's in the scenario I am talking about here.

If Charles dies before his mother then William could at best hold two Dukedoms - his own, and on the death of his grandfather the Edinburgh title, which he would hold until his own succession when both titles would merge with the crown.
and what if Prince Charles doesn't accept the title of Duke of Edinburgh, does William get it than?
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  #275  
Old 12-06-2006, 02:56 PM
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Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?
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  #276  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:00 PM
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The Prince Charles most titled Peer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress
Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?
Yes, I think that Prince Charles is the most titled Peer. His father and his two brothers and his uncles held two or three titles.

He is:

His Royal Highness
The Prince Charles Arthur Philip George of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Prince of Wales
Earl of Chester
Duke of Cornwall
Duke of Rothesay
Earl of Carrick
Baron of Renfrew
Lord of the Isles
Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.
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  #277  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress
Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?
Charles was born HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh, became HRH The Prince Charles, Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay in 1952 as the eldest son and heir to the Sovereign, and was created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester in 1958.

However, his wife is never styled as "The Princess Charles" because she is HRH The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, etc. It is incorrect to refer to Diana or Camilla in this way.
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  #278  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
and what if Prince Charles doesn't accept the title of Duke of Edinburgh, does William get it than?
Charles will inherit the Dukedom as Philip's eldest son. If he is still heir to the throne, he simply adds Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merinoth and Baron Greenwich to his existing titles. If he is King, the Dukedom automatically merges with the Crown and is available again to be re-created for Prince Edward.

The only way William would become Duke of Edinburgh is if both his father and grandfather died before The Queen.
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  #279  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norwegianne
Actually, Lutherans are protestants, too... and therefore, as far as I can see, not ineligible.
Actually, I don't think Victoria would be allowed to marry William anyway, particularly because she is an heiress, and he is the the heir of an heir so... If she were to marry him, I think she'd have to give up her place in the Swedish succession, and the title of heir would go back to Carl-Philip.
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  #280  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie2006
Actually, I don't think Victoria would be allowed to marry William anyway, particularly because she is an heiress, and he is the the heir of an heir so... If she were to marry him, I think she'd have to give up her place in the Swedish succession, and the title of heir would go back to Carl-Philip.
Or the other way round. William gives up his rights for marrying Victoria.
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