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  #221  
Old 10-12-2006, 08:23 PM
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Duke of Leeds Viscount Aberdeen Earl of Swansea!!!!!
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  #222  
Old 10-12-2006, 09:30 PM
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Yes, Elspeth, but what I meant was... perhaps Harry will be made an earl and then not given a dukedom. (I know it goes against tradition, but the royals seem to be going against tradition lately. For example, the Queen has changed the rules of precedence, and she gave Edward an earldom upon marriage rather than a dukedom - with the idea that he will eventually be given the title Duke of Edinburgh. If the Queen is the fount of all honors and titles, she has the right to bestow a title we might not have considered - even viscount or marquess.)

Don't get me wrong, I like Harry and I think he'll shape up to be a good working royal, and I would hope to see him Duke of ...
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  #223  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle
Yes, Elspeth, but what I meant was... perhaps Harry will be made an earl and then not given a dukedom. (I know it goes against tradition, but the royals seem to be going against tradition lately. For example, the Queen has changed the rules of precedence, and she gave Edward an earldom upon marriage rather than a dukedom - with the idea that he will eventually be given the title Duke of Edinburgh. If the Queen is the fount of all honors and titles, she has the right to bestow a title we might not have considered - even viscount or marquess.)

Don't get me wrong, I like Harry and I think he'll shape up to be a good working royal, and I would hope to see him Duke of ...
The Sovereign can change the court rules of precedence at any time. It has nothing to do with the official order of precedence for all members of the royal family as well as Government officials and the Church.

Prince Edward was given an Earldom upon marriage because he was originally expected to continue working in television production, rather than carrying out official duties. The intention is he will be granted a new creation of the Dukedom of Edinburgh after the death of his parents and Charles is King.

I highly doubt Harry would be granted an earldom rather than a dukedom upon marriage. He is still third in-line to the throne and will be expected to take on many official duties as he gets older.
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  #224  
Old 10-13-2006, 02:36 PM
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maybe he can get both an Earldom AND Dukedom :)
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  #225  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal Fan
maybe he can get both an Earldom AND Dukedom :)
Very likely to happen as he will eventually be a son of the sovereign.
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  #226  
Old 10-14-2006, 05:49 PM
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The usual set recently - conferred on George V's younger sons, on Prince Philip, and on Prince Andrew - is a dukedom, an earldom, and a barony.
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  #227  
Old 10-14-2006, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Very likely to happen as he will eventually be a son of the sovereign.

unless of course Charles doesn't outlive the queen, in which case he will only be the brother of the monarch, which raises an interesting point IMHO.


If the above scenario does happen (ie Charles doesn't replace his mother as monarch) would Harry's children still be entitled to the HRH Prince/Princess titles? As Harry's children would only be the male line great-grandchildren of the monarch they wouldn't be entitled but could an exception be made due to the fact that Charles should have been king except for whatever circumstance arose to see him not succeed his mother.


This is a scenario I don't won't to happen as I have been a Charles supporter since I was a very small girl (back in the 1960s) and look forward to singing God Save the King and mean Charles but what if....?
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  #228  
Old 10-14-2006, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
If the above scenario does happen (ie Charles doesn't replace his mother as monarch) would Harry's children still be entitled to the HRH Prince/Princess titles? As Harry's children would only be the male line great-grandchildren of the monarch they wouldn't be entitled but could an exception be made due to the fact that Charles should have been king except for whatever circumstance arose to see him not succeed his mother.
As the law stands at present Harry's children would not be HRH's. My understanding is that it is two generations before the HRH entitlement disapears. Eg:-

HM George V
HRH George, Duke of Kent
HRH Edward, Duke of Kent
Lord Nicholas Windsor
Master/Miss ?????? Windsor


HM Elizabeth II
HRH Charles, Prince of Wales
HRH Prince Henry of Wales
Lord/Lady ?????????? Windsor
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  #229  
Old 10-14-2006, 09:18 PM
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If Harry was married and had children at the present time, they would not be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK (assuming The Queen didn't issue letters patent elevating them to the rank and title). When Charles becomes King, Harry's children would automatically become HRH Prince/Princess as the male-line grandchildren of The Sovereign.

If William succeeds the Queen instead, Harry's children would simply be Lord/Lady Windsor, with the eldest son taking his style from his father's secondary peerage, if any. If William was not married yet, I assume he would issue letters patent elevating Harry's children to HRH Prince/Princess of the UK since they would be very close to the succession until he had children of his own.
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  #230  
Old 10-14-2006, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wymanda
As the law stands at present Harry's children would not be HRH's. My understanding is that it is two generations before the HRH entitlement disapears.
Edward's eldest son George will succeed to his father's titles after his death and become His Grace The Duke of Kent, Earl of St. Andrews and Baron Downpatrick. A great-grandchild of a Sovereign loses the right to be HRH under the 1917 Letters Patent of George V.

Prior to the issuance of the 1917 Letters Patent, male-line great-granchildren of a Sovereign were styled HH Prince/Princess of Great Britain and Ireland.
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  #231  
Old 10-15-2006, 05:30 AM
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William & Kate To Have Royal Title Of Cambridge

WILLIAM AND KATE TO HAVE TITLE : DUKE AND DUCHESS OF CAMBRIDGE
Is this true, if so how lovely, that's always been my favourite title. I also associate this title with Queen Mary's family Cambridge and those lovely Green Emeralds they won in a lottery I think in 1910! William has always done his own thing and will marry whom he wants regardless of public opinion. I believe Harry and Chelsy will also stay the course and marry. Next years calendar. Prince William turns 25 in June, Camilla turns 60 in July, Queen & Prince Phillip's Diamond 60th Wedding Anniversary in November, 2008, Prince Charles turns 60 in November, Princess Eugenie turns 18 in March. Not sure where they will fit a Royal Wedding in possibly Williams or Harrys??
Angie
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  #232  
Old 10-15-2006, 08:13 AM
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Most unlikely that William receives the Dukedom of Cambridge

It really is most unlikely that Prince William will become Duke of Cambridge.

When his father assumes the kingship, he will automatically become:

His Royal Highness
The Prince William
Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
Earl of Chester,
Duke of Cornwall,
Duke of Rothesay,
Earl of Carrick,
Baron of Renfrew,
Lord of the Isles
and
Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

And at a later stage, when it pleases his father, he will be created Prince of Wales as well.

So it is most unlikely that Prince William will receive the Dukedom of Cambridge.

Earl of Chester
The earldom was created by William the Conqueror, with the intention of the Earl keeping an eye on any war-like activities by the Welsh. It reverted to the Crown in 1237, and was passed to the future Edward I. He conferred the earldom on his son, Edward II, and since then the Earldom of Chester has gone to every Prince of Wales.

Duke of Cornwall
The Prince became Duke of Cornwall automatically upon The Queen's accession on 6th February, 1952. The Duchy of Cornwall - the oldest and one of the biggest landed estates in England - has existed for more than 650 years and provides an income for the male heir to the throne.

Duke of Rothesay
When The Prince of Wales is in Scotland, he is known by this title of the Scottish peerage, first conferred by Robert III, King of Scots, on his son David in 1398. An act of the Scottish Parliament in 1469 confirmed its restriction to the heir apparent to the throne of Scotland. Since the 1603 Union of the Crowns the title has descended alongside the Dukedom of Cornwall, and The Prince became Duke of Rothesay at the time of The Queen's accession.

Earl of Carrick and Baron of Renfrew
Other titles of the Scottish peerage inherited by the heir to the throne under the 1469 Act.

Lord of The Isles
This ancient title, held by those who ruled the Western Isles as vassals of the King of Scotland, was annexed to the Crown by James V of Scotland in 1540, to be passed to his heirs.

Prince and Great Steward of Scotland
The hereditary office of Great (or High) Steward dates from the 12th Century. The 1469 Act confirmed that the title should go to "the first-born prince of the King of Scots for ever".
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  #233  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:34 AM
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It really depends when William marries. If The Queen is still alive, it's very likely she would grant a dukedom so his wife would have a style other than "Princess William of Wales".
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  #234  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:36 AM
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So it is most unlikely that Prince William will receive the Dukedom of Cambridge
With the very likely idea that the Queen will still be alive when he gets married. There is some speculation that he will recieve his own dukedom

Prince Albert Victor who's father was the Prince of Wales (later Edward VII) and grandmother was Queen (Victoria) was given the title Duke of Clarence.
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  #235  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Henri M.
It really is most unlikely that Prince William will become Duke of Cambridge.

When his father assumes the kingship, he will automatically become:

His Royal Highness
The Prince William
Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
Earl of Chester,
Duke of Cornwall,
Duke of Rothesay,
Earl of Carrick,
Baron of Renfrew,
Lord of the Isles
and
Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.
Earl of Chester is granted with the Prince of Wales title. It is not automatic to the eldest son and heir to the Sovereign.
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  #236  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:39 AM
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HRH Princess William of Wales

Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
It really depends when William marries. If The Queen is still alive, it's very likely she would grant a dukedom so his wife would have a style other than "Princess William of Wales".
I fail to see what is the problem with HRH Princess William of Wales, Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ?

In a very foreseeable future his wife will become HRH The Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, etc. etc. etc.

In a slighty furtherer foreseeable future his wife will also become HRH The Princess of Wales.

And in a more furtherer future his wife will become HM Queen [name].

With other words: plenty of titles!

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  #237  
Old 10-15-2006, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppie
With the very likely idea that the Queen will still be alive when he gets married. There is some speculation that he will recieve his own dukedom

Prince Albert Victor who's father was the Prince of Wales (later Edward VII) and grandmother was Queen (Victoria) was given the title Duke of Clarence.
He could receive an earldom (i.e. Earl of Truro) for now since he is very close to becoming The Duke of Cornwall given the reality of The Queen's age.
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  #238  
Old 10-15-2006, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ksenia
i always found it interesting how do people (in a marriage of different religions) decide which religion will be the dominate one in the household or how do you blend them so the children are not conflicted or confused by oposing doctrine.
someone correct me if i'm wrong on this one but normally if two people marry and are from different religions, the children are raised in the mother's religion...at least that's how it use to be when religion played a more prominent role in society, and that's what the roman catholic church does it, as well as the jewish religion if i'm not mistaken.
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  #239  
Old 10-15-2006, 07:02 PM
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I think it depends on the family. My father is catholic and my mother is united and I was raised catholic.

There are two good dutch examples of this. Princess Amelia and Princess Alexia of the Netherlands are being raised protestant, Princess Maxima is catholic.

Prince Maurits and Princess Marilene baptised there children both protestant and catholic.

In the case of catholics if only one is catholic in order to get married in the church the other must promise to raise there children catholic. With Jewish if your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish.
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  #240  
Old 10-15-2006, 07:27 PM
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I agree with Oppie. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule for Christians and it depends on the family. My mother's brother (Anglican) married a Catholic woman, who agreed to raise their children as Anglicans. They were married in about 1943 and he died 10 years later with 3 children aged between 9 and 2, but my aunt honoured their agreement.

That was at a time when religion did play a more prominent role in society, and I think she was put under a bit of pressure after his death to raise the children as Catholic.

It's different for Jewish people though. If a child's mother is Jewish, the child is Jewish; if she's not, they're not.
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